Attached is an alert from WDFW regarding yesterday's cougar attack on the Kalama River.

http://www.wa.gov/wdfw/do/may03/may0703a.htm

Thankfully, nobody was injured. The cat bolted but they're trying to track it down. The angler was hiking out with a 25lb springer on his packframe. It doesn't say where, but my guess is he was up in the canyon. That seems like cougar country to me.

The cat was probably having as much luck with spring Chinook fishing as I am. So he tried another method. I'll stick to drifting eggs.........

Another ramification of the I-655... The one that nobody cared about because they thought it would not effect them.. WRONG!

Thanks for posting the article, this is not the first attack and it definently will not be the last attack under our mandated bear and cougar managment practices..
It's kinda ironic that they use hounds anyway to track down problem animals but now we get to pay houndsmen for their services where just a few years ago they were a revenue producing entity for the WDFW.. Oh Well!

Apathy Kills!

What's the world coming to when there's wild animals in the woods? Is this the 19th century or something?

Think about it guys. We are in their territory. We act like it is unusual to hear of this happening or something. For the guy that mentioned something about bears. There are tons of bears and black bears dont attach much unless some idiot is messing with a sow and cubs. If you go out in the woods expect to see wildlife isnt that the what we expect to see when in the woods.

It was quite unusual to hear of this prior to 1996, but since the passage of certain intiatives we now get to hear about it more and more!
We usta to have a great balance with bears and cougars here in this state, that was taken from us. Now we get to pay lotsa money to manage them the same way they were managed prior to I-655 . It was a revenue producer now it's a big fat expendature that takes $ from other programs.

Do you want me to post some articles about some gruesome black bear attacks? They will attack, you just dont need to find a sow and cubs.
With the ever growing populations of these animals they are becoming much more agressive than in the past when they were kept in check.

So the opinion is that if we are in the woods and get attacked by a cougar, nothing should be done? We are in its territory, so the cougar has the right to pounce. Hmmm...

Same thing goes when the cougar snatches a kid from his backyard, right? There shouldn't have been a house there anyway...we encroached on the cougar's turf.... We should look at this just like when we lose a salmon to a sea lion....

I myself think it is kind of important that cougars fear humans and if that means destroying aggresive cougars, so be it.

Thankfully, common sense prevails. Under WDFW policy, cougars that attack humans are tracked and killed.

You nailed it ET!
That fear is diminishing very quick when these animals are competing for territory and food, when they didnt have to prior to 1996.

Its called check and balance! We got no check now, which equals no balance!

black bears will not only attack you, they will eat you. I was told on a trip to Alaska that if a griz attacks play dead and you might live... If a blackie attacks, fight until you cant anymore, if they think youre dead, you're a meal.

Ok, lets try to put this in a logical perspective...

Driftboater, as one who keeps abreast of these issues, obviously you must know that cougar and bear hunting has not been outlawed, only certain methods used to hunt them (which some would argue aren't very "sporting") so your "fear of man" theory is out the window. If you think about it, wouldn't it be "fear of hounds" since it's the dogs that do all of the work.

If you check WDFW statistics, you'll find that the number of bears and cougars taken during legal hunting seasons has actually increased since I-655 was passed! Imagine that...

Do a little research into the number of humans attacked by cougars here in the last 30 years or so. (I believe Oregon hasn't recorded a single one) MANY more children are killed by domestic dogs. Dogs have obviously lost their fear of man right? Hey, let's go kill a few.

Obviously bears and cougars can be dangerous animals, that's not what's being debated here. The fact that you think this is all directly related to the passing of the I-655 initiative is.

2 years ago, shark attacks in Florida appeared to be dramatically increasing. Hell, you couldn't turn on the news without hearing another story of someone being attacked. When the year was over, and all of the data was compiled, incidences of shark attack were actually statistically LOWER than average.

Media sensationalism played a HUGE role in making it appear as though the sharks were out to get us, but the facts just don't support this. I believe the same thing happens with these cougar attack stories. They happen so infrequently that, when it does occur, it makes quite a story.

Allright 4-salt lets play!

Since you have done some research on the stats why not post up your findings.

If in fact you are correct that the stats are higher (which I highly doubt especially for cougars)
On bears, that may hold true. The reasons IMO would be because of the extended seasons, the abundance of animals along with the fact that we now have certain spring hunts, also the opportunity to take two bears, plus the fact that permits are considerably cheaper as in the past. They basically just give em to ya for like ten bucks where they usta cost something like 30..

As stated above I would like to see the numbers on cougar harvests. If cougar numbers have risen. They must be counting all the depradation hunts that are taking place in the east side of the state. please post up your stats from WDFW..

Here are some stats I recieved from the WDFW

1995
Bear Complaints Statewide 208
Cougar Complaints Statewide 247

1998

Bear Complaints Statewide 786
Cougar Complaints Statewide 927


Dogs and Sharks,,lets stick to the topic at hand and not compare apples and oranges, OK.....

Oh, just where did I say hunting bears and cougars is outlawed?
Dont play your little word twist game with me that you so elequently like doing to others, it wont work with me!

db'er,

Meaningless statistics. Complaints? What's that mean......you saw a cougar/bear behind the house?

Like you, I think game management by ballot is a bad idea.........but I also think the fear of cougars and bears is WAY overblown.

You know how many people have been killed by cougars in WA since 1900? ONE.

Sounds to me like people are just LOOKING for something to worry about.

Cougar attacks on humans are extremely rare. In North America, fewer than 20 fatalities and 75 non-fatal attacks have been reported during the past 100 years. However, more cougar attacks have been reported in the western United States and Canada over the past 20 years than in the previous 80. In Washington, of the one fatality and five non-fatal attacks reported since 1924, four attacks have occurred during the 1990’s. As cougar numbers increase in Washington and habitat dwindles, the more likely you are to encounter a lion. Young, newly independent cougars of 1 or 2 years of age, presumably having difficulty finding food for themselves, account for the majority of the cougar/human interactions reported in Washington.

Make that six non fatal attacks.

I imagine prior to the last 20 years if a Cougar pestered you, ya just went and got your rifle and took him out! :p

No offense to Rapid Robert of course.

Dan,,

I am not sure on the criteria for what a "complaint" but IMO it is a damn good barometer for what the population levels post I-655

Driftboater - You obviously have much more of a vested interest in this topic than I, and probably have more time to "play." But, just so you won't go away empty-handed, here's a couple of links to statistics that I managed to find during a preliminary search:

Cougar attack stats

2000 black Bear harvest

2000 Cougar harvest

Downloadable PDF harvest trend stats

1998 Game harvest stats PDF

If you click on the links provided in each of these links, much more data is available.


I disagree on the shark example being apples/oranges. It CLEARLY illustrates my point about media hype distorting the public's perception of the real dangers at hand.

As far as dogs go, you are using the argument that there is now an imminent danger to children from cougars as a direct result of the passage of I-655 causing them to lose their fear of man. I'm putting it into relative terms by citing the FACT that many MORE children are killed by dogs.

If you were to draw the logical conclusion it would be: Dogs are more dangerous than cougars. Why aren't you advocating reduction of this danger by it's elimination?

Man shoots cougar near back porch

The Associated Press
11/26/02 3:41 PM


HALFWAY, Ore. (AP) -- A man shot a cougar near his neighbor's back porch after the animal charged his neighbor's 5-year-old son.

Duane Anderson shot the animal twice Sunday with a .223 caliber rifle.

Raymond Denig walked onto a back porch and saw the cougar just two feet away. The child ran back inside and the cat pursued, placing its paws on the door's window and snarling, said the boy's father, Joe Denig.

Anderson said the first indication that the large cat was in the area came Saturday night, when his three dogs became panicky.

Sunday morning the cougar was wrangling with the Denig's dog, and Anderson grabbed his gun.

George Keister, district wildlife biologist for the Oregon Department of Fish and Wildlife, said the cougar appeared to be about two years old, and was extremely emaciated.

"It was getting desperate, I think. A cougar in that condition is more likely to attack a person," Keister said.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------

I notice a discrepancy while looking at WDFW news releases.

One page says 8 attacks in the 90's and the other says 4.

Hmmm......

Fellas...... Let's not overdue it. I was just pointing out there's a coug on the Kalama that anglers need to be aware of.

It seems to me the cat wasn't trying to attack the angler. He was after the fish, not the person. Otherwise, we would have had one less angler amongst us. When the cat realized his mistake, he was gone in a flash. Good thing too. Trying to fend off a big cat with a pack frame and fishing rod is probably not very effective.

This has nothing to do with ballot petitions, statistics, or wildlife management. We fish where bears, cougars, wolves, and coyotes live. To some degree, that's the point. Can I catch spring Chinook in downtown Portland? Sure, right under the Fremont Bridge, but I'd rather try to land them in the Kalama River Canyon, cougars and all. It's part of the experience.

Just keep your eyes open........

I really like the part where the mama cougar cougar is teaching the little cougar to hunt!
+++++++++++++++++++++++
True Cougar Tales
Truth is more amazing than myth when it comes to stories about human encounters with big cats


Bob Mottram; The News Tribune
January 9, 2002


It's a little after midnight, only a couple of years ago, and a man has just let two dogs out of his house near Issaquah.
Suddenly he hears an unusual noise outside. He returns to the door and cautiously opens it, and one of his dogs races into the house. The dog is cowering, shaking, whining. And the dog is alone. The man can feel the hair on the back of his neck stand up.

He picks up a flashlight and steps out through the door, into the dark. His frightened dog remains inside. The night is deathly still. He searches for his other dog, but it's gone without a trace. Finally he pauses beneath a tree, his eyes and ears on full alert.

THUNK!

Something heavy hits the ground beside him in the dark. He jumps and flips his light on, and there it is: The other dog.

And it is dead.

The man twists around and shines his light above him, into the tree. And two green eyes stare back. Behind the eyes are 120 pounds of lethal intent.

The man moves slowly, so as not to encourage an attack. He retrieves a rifle from his house. He kills the cat.

South Florida has its gators, Montana its grizzly bears. Arizona has its poisonous snakes. Story and myth have grown around them all.

Here at home we have our cats. They call them mountain lions or pumas in parts of the mountain West, catamounts in the East. In the Northwest, though, we call them cougars, and Northwesterners have no need for myth.

The truth is amazing enough.

When campfires flicker deep in Northwest woods, staving off the darkening night, people shiver and huddle closer to that little piece of light. And then the story-telling starts. When it comes your turn to talk, here is a handful of tales - all true - from among those in the archives of The News Tribune that you can use to weave a spell with campfire friends.

Tug-of-war for life

The time is August 1999 and a man from Aberdeen awakens in his tent about 2 a.m. He's camped at Sol Duc Campground in Olympic National Park. His dog outside is yelping. The night is black.

The man steps out of his tent, and pulls on the chain to which his dog is tethered. Something in the dark pulls back. A tug-of-war ensues. After a moment the pulling stops, and the man sees something melt into the night.

The wounds sustained by his 65-pound dog are evidence that the something was a cougar. The dog survives.

A young cougar's near trophy

It's late June 1994, a Saturday about 7 p.m., on the Skookumchuck River in southern Thurston County. It's broad daylight that time of day that time of year. Mario Troche of Pierce County is fishing with a friend.

Troche, wearing chest waders, has walked up the trunk of a large maple tree whose roots are under water a few feet from the bank and whose sloping trunk rises gradually over the river. His friend, Chris Billings, fishes from the opposite bank. They're joking back and forth.

Suddenly, Troche gets a funny feeling. He turns around, and he catches his breath. On the bank behind him is a cat, its head the size of a volleyball, its forearms the size of Troche's calves. She lies in the shadows, staring at Troche.

But that's just half the problem. On the trunk of his tree is another, smaller cat. And it's coming after him. Troche is amazed. The cat had waded belly-deep in water to reach the tree.

The big cat appears to be agitated. She shifts her rear end back and forth, as though trying to find traction. She flicks her tail. Then Troche's gaze returns to the second cat, the one on his log, whose weight he estimates at nearly 100 pounds. It continues to close the distance; to 10 feet, then to 6.

Suddenly, truth floods Troche's brain. These are a mother and a cub. The mother is teaching the cub to hunt. Troche is the huntee.

The water behind him is 8 feet deep. If he jumps, his waders will fill with water and pull him down. Both men yell, but it doesn't scare the cat. So Troche wields his only weapon. He uses his fishing rod to whip the cat about the face. This doesn't faze the cat. It bites at the rod and hits at it with its paws.

The mother watches, growling.

Finally, Billings throws some rocks. They hit the cub in the ribs and chest. Slowly, it backs down off the log, leaps up the bank, and goes to Mom.

In an instant, they are gone.

The disappearing goats

The night was such a dark and eerie one. Some horses pastured across the road milled uneasily for so long, sending shivers of concern along the spines of those who heard them. A neighbor's dog barked frantically at some unseen presence in the dark. And Alan Galbreth realized how isolated he and his family were on their five-acre plot a few miles outside Marysville.

Finally the sun returned, and when Galbreth went to his window in the morning he could see his goats, all 10 of them, browsing peacefully in their pasture behind the woven-wire fence. The sight was reassuring.

Three hours later, Galbreth looked again. A goat was down.

Galbreth hurried to the pasture, and what he found was chilling. His goat was dead. So was another. And another. So were two more. Not eaten, just dead.

Almost before he knew it, darkness was coming around again. As it descended, Galbreth locked his remaining goats inside their shed, and went into the house. In 20 minutes he returned. No. 6 was gone.

Galbreth slept fitfully that night. Next day he kept his four remaining goats inside the shed, and kept them there that night as well. By the following morning, it appeared the killing had stopped. He released the goats into a little pen beside the shed.

That afternoon he glanced outside, and couldn't believe what he saw. Another goat was down. An animal had pinned it to the dirt.

Galbreth retrieved a rifle, stepped onto his deck, and fired several shots. The assailant curled its toes and died. It turned out to be a cougar; just a kitten, hardly more than 40 pounds. Just losing its baby spots.

Caught between a cat and its prey

The year was 1995, the month September, and Joe Bloomquist of Port Orchard was wrapping up a summer of guiding fishermen in Montana. He was 22 at the time, a fisheries major at the University of Washington.

Bloomquist was on a postman's holiday, tossing flies for trout with his cousin, Mike Herrick, on a creek a few miles east of Missoula. They were fishing their way upstream when Bloomquist decided to leapfrog ahead by cutting across a neck of land where the water made a loop.

In the woods, he spotted a deer among the trees. A buck. A dead buck. But it had beautiful horns. Horns to die for.

Bloomquist had spent a lot of his life in the woods; plenty of time to learn that whatever had killed this buck must have packed a lot of punch. And plenty of time to learn that whatever it was wouldn't want him coming around its prize.

Just chalk it up to the horns. It was the sight of them that drove other thoughts right out of his head. He wanted to retrieve the rack and take it home.

Bloomquist never saw it, and he never heard it coming. It hit him from behind. Next thing he knew, he was on the ground.

When he lifted his face from the dirt, he was looking into the eyes of an angry cat.

He thinks it was his pack that saved him. It contained a couple of 8-by-12-inch plastic boxes in which he carried flies. The cougar hit the boxes with its head and mouth, and that's what saved his back.

The man lay face-down on the ground. The cougar crouched nearby. That's when Bloomquist's cousin hit the scene, running hard and hollering at the cat. His arrival caught the cat's attention, which gave Bloomquist time to grab his rod.

He got to his feet, swinging the fly rod like a switch, and slowly backed away. The cat stayed where it was. Between Bloomquist and the deer.

The cougar and the hot dogs

It happened on a Friday evening in a campground in Olympic National Park. The year was in 1994, and some people sat beside a fire at their campsite cooking hot dogs.

While they cooked, a cougar crept to within 10 feet. Suddenly, a woman screamed. The startled cat jumped one way, and the startled people jumped the other, and the cat raced up a tree while the people stormed their trailer and slammed the door behind them.

The cat was the first to recover its aplomb. As the people peered from the trailer's windows, the cat climbed down the tree, ate the people's dinner and walked into the woods.

Careful who you stalk

Jim Martin of Vancouver was hunting deer and elk in the Gifford Pinchot National Forest one September, armed only with a bow, when he noticed a cougar crouching in the brush about 70 yards away. The cat was staring directly at his eyes.

A shiver of excitement ran down his spine, but Martin wasn't afraid. A logging road about 100 yards away bisected the clearcut in which he stood, and he decided that if he could get to the road he somehow would be safe.

He started to circle away from the cat, keeping it in sight. As long as he could see the cat, it didn't move.

The man passed behind a brush pile, and momentarily the cat was out of sight. When he came out the other side the cat was gone. Martin felt relieved. He thought the cat had run away.

What he saw next unnerved him. The cat was right behind the brush. While the man was out of sight, it had closed the space between them by 50 yards. Now it was only 20 yards away.

Martin now felt terror. He knew the cat was stalking him. The road still was 50 yards away, and he thought the cat would maul him in the clearcut and he never would be found.

Martin headed toward the road as fast as he could go, beating through the brush and clambering over logs, never looking back. When he stepped onto the road, he felt relief. He walked a few more yards, and finally turned to look.

There, in the middle of the road behind him, was the cat.

Martin walked a couple of feet. So did the cat.

He decided he'd had enough.

Martin nocked an arrow, drew his bow and released the shaft. He heard a thud, and the cougar walked into the brush.

It went about 40 yards before it died.

- - -

4-Salt: Thank you for the comparison.

"MANY more children are killed by domestic dogs. Dogs have obviously lost their fear of man right? Hey, let's go kill a few. "

Yes, let's!!! Oh, that's right we do already. Any dog that kills a child is destroyed!!! Any dog that injures a person can be destroyed and any dog that even threatens a person, can be destroyed if deemed an uncontrollable threat!

Great stories there Driftboater.

Here is a little joke I like about bears:

The Alaska State Department of Fish and Game is advising hikers, hunters, fishermen and golfers to take extra precautions and keep alert for bears while in the Kenai Mountains area.

They advise people to wear noise-producing devices such as little bells on their clothing to alert but not startle the bear unexpectedly. They also advise carrying pepper spray in case of an encounter with a bear. It is also a good idea to watch for fresh signs of bear activity and ... know the difference between black bear and grizzly bear droppings.

Black bear droppings are smaller and contain berries and possibly squirrel fur. Grizzly bear droppings have little bells in them and
smell like pepper spray.

ET,

The BIG difference is, we don't go out and hunt down Fido BEFORE he attacks a child, just cause we think he might...

YES WE DO!!! If we have half a brain. You just happen to hit a raw nerve. My neighbor has a mutt that has threatened my children while they have been coming home from school. The neighbor has failed to leash the animal and I've reported it to the police twice now. One more time and that dog is gone!

Besides... this cougar attacked a fisherman....didn't look at him....didn't growl at him.....it jumped him!

4Salt,,

I see where there are 208 harvested cougars on that spread sheet and 23 depradation and 21 safety removals.

I just reviewed the document from Dave Britteil Asst Director of the WDFW December 9 1996 about the request from the House Natural Resource Committe for an assessment of the impacts of I-655

It clearly states in there the harvest reports from the cougar "permit" season to be 283 cougars harvested for 1995. They issued 446 permits for an 81% success rate.
Now they basically give away the cougar permit for like, 5 dollars. This is to get everyone out in the woods to be shooting at cougars in hopes they will keep harvests #'s up.

I have the economy impacts that was presented to the committee, they are in the millions for bear and cougar.
I also have revenue numbers that were lost due in fact to the I-655 and also expendatures that were incurred by the WDFW post I-655 (which measure in the millions each year)
I have a harvest data report that goes back prior to the bounty (1935)
I even have a chart that shows in 1995 that there were 10 problem cougars killed by WDFW (that number has sure increased)
Matter of fact we had a revenues for just the cougar that was close to 600,000 and post I-655 WDFW reports an expendature of 1.3 million.. Wouldnt you like seeing that 1.3 million a year going somewhere else?

This is a hard copy report in front of me. I would be more than happy to make copies of it and snail mail it to you!

ET,

I think we're a little off-track here. My main point was to dispute Driftboater's claim that a dramatic increase in the number of cougar/bear attacks have taken place since the passing of I-655.

The neighbor's dog has threatened your children. You have witnessed this first-hand. I agree completely that some measures should be taken in your case.

My dog example was merely that, an example. I could have used the comparison that many more children are killed in household accidents, traffic accidents, by bicycles etc...

ALL I was trying to do was dispell some of the fear and paranoia of being injured or killed by a cougar, and provide a counterpoint to the use of that fear to re-instate what could be considered an un-sporting method of hunting them.

Driftboater - I have NO opposition to hunter's keeping the cougar population in check. I was merely disputing your claim that the reason the fisherman on the Kalama was attacked is because we don't hunt them anymore with hounds. That's it!

4salt, how is the use of hounds unsporting? Cougars, etc, still get away often times.

Is bird hunting with dogs any less "unsporting?" Obviously they give the hunter much more of an advantage over the bird. Maybe just pointers? After all, a hunter can often times almost step on birds that are pointed.

In both cases dogs can be harmed by their prey or during the hunt itself. I personally know of a brittany that lost an eye due to a rooster pheasant.

There is no difference, IMO. Hound hunting is sporting and should be allowed for preditor control.

I have heard that term used many times by Animal Rights groups that are trying to paint an unclear picture to the media about certain practices.
Reminds me of a quote by Wayne Pacelle of Fund for Animals (now president of HSUS, they same group WT loves so much and endorses)

"I personally oppose fishing" a hooked fish feels pain equivalent to "...... a human having his hand impaled and being jerked off the ground by a hook"

Pretty obsured! huh! Just like your take on my way be "un-Sporting"
I take it you have never been on a hound hunt and have only read and saw one sided campaign footage!

Thats a good one Sky Guy!

Glad you enjoyed those stories. I have many many more that I have saved over the years just for instances like this

Man! You folks are tryin' to "tree me like a cat!"

Operative word: COULD

NOWHERE does it say "I"

No, I haven't been on a hound hunt, and CWU girl, we weren't discussing "predator control" hunts. We were talkin' about the guy on the Kalama. For predator removal/problem animal hunts, the most expiditious method should be used. In the case of cougars, if that means hounds, go for it!

Driftboater - Them PETA types sure got yer dander up, don't they. Everything appears to be an animal-rights issue to you. I've got NOTHING against hunting, and lord knows I love to fish. I've also got to get some work done today, so maybe you could go and argue this with chappy on the hunting board.

Well what made ya think that I have had three things taken from me. Hound hunting, bear baiting,and trapping.
I sure hope that if you have something taken from you you will stand up and be heard.

You are correct in your statement about "could" and "I" but it has (not by you) been portrayed that way.
i admit I played a little dirty there, but I am just using this platform as tool to hopefully teach other user groups about what we are facing with these AR groups.

Ohh, I will just leave that one alone. It is pretty quite over there. I think I have scared him and BBVD away. Oh well

Get your work done! and I appreciate our discussions today I think we both learned a thing or two.

Thank You

its easy.... bring back the wolf! its easier and better than rednecks trying to play god. most of the rednecks ive met couldnt manage a 7-11 let alone an ecosystem..... if a cougar wants to try and steal my springer, he has a fight in store for him. especially since my wolf hybrid fishes the kalama with me.
Ive had cougars attack my rabbits before and i was chased by a mother bear when i was in 7th grade. even still, i wouldnt want to eliminate them from our forests or put renecks in charge of controling them.

All I CAN Say Is I Hate Anti's .Like You Chappy You LIER'S. I'm Just Tired Of The LIE'S. Rick. Former Bear Baiter . Redneck .

all this talk about cougars has got me hungry i think i'll go pull a nice lean tasty cougar steak out of the freezer tomorrow night its bbq bear burgers weather permitting of course

Who said rednecks were going to be in charge of controlling bears or cougars?? My word, that sounds horrible!! Who would think of such a thing??

It is my understanding that its the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife is in charge of controlling preditor and prey species. They set the limits every year, the methods that can be employed to hunt.... not the rednecks.

And no one here has said they want to eliminate cougars or bears. However, there should be effective management tools employed. Unfortunately, the initiative process took the effective wildlife management tool out of the hands of the WDFW.

And the wolf needs entirely too much territory to be a reasonable solution.

PS- Seattle? Hybred wolf?? Those were outlawed a few years back due to their unpredictable nature in that county if I remember right....

This is the second bad cougar I have read about on this board in the last two weeks, first Mike Price and now this one. If this turns out anything like the Mike Price incident don't worry the hounds from the press will get em treed, make him scream for mercy and bring him down.

Well what do you expect? Take away the hounds, and move thousands of californians into the cougars territory. You get encounters. We either need to stop people from coming here, and stop expansion or decrease the number of wildlife. There is only so much land left in this state for them and we're eating it up faster than a lot of you (blind) individuals think.

Hey chappy. Dude shut up. Bring the wolves back and the cougar population will decrease. Good one. Only because their will be no deer or elk left for them to eat. Than you'll have a bunch of really hungry cats that will come even closer to residential areas to get cats, dogs and livestock. Really good idea. What is it Red Foreman always calls Eric on That 70'S show. Right you get the picture.

Glow

Yikes!....Cougars in the woods I think im gonna stick to Zoo Creek and Reiter. Safety in numbers... Chances are, i can outrun the guy next to me thats tangled up in a wad of mono, beer cans, and styrafoam.

I know what Red say's

HEY DUMBA S S!

Thanks for your awesome insight there Chapster, I always like a good laugh and you sure bring some good ones out in me! Keep up the good work.

Are you gonna reply to the second request about your hybrid wolf pet?

CHAPPY:

How in the hell is bringing back the wolf going to help control the cougar population?

You keep saying this but never provide any thing to prove it.
Can you?
If so do it, and if not. Shut up about the wolfs!

And I’m a all American Red Neck that is retired at 33 so K,M,A.
Guess where not so dammed dumb after all.

Another very good reason I carry a side arm with me. Way to go Drift boater. I completely agree, and unfortunately I don't have the statistics with me. But whe nthat intiative passed I found it very odd that the game dept. would basically give away the cougar and bear tags? They new the best methods for huntign them had just been taken away. It is also strange that up to that point you used to have to apply for a permit to hunt cougars!! Now you can get a tag for $10 and can hunt them fro Aug through March. The harvest hsn't gone up for either bears or coupgars since the hound hunting and bear baiting ban! Yeah sure there are more animals. But the hunters are left without viable way to hunt them.

And Chappy, you are way off base on the wof thing. Give it a rest already!! Wolves and cougars dont have natural predators!! Except maybe grizly bears. There aren't enough game animals to support wolves plus all the cougars and bears that we have already. And support hunting seasons that bring a lot of revenue itno this state!
Buck

i just got back from having a look around the reiter area and i happened to come across a fresh set of cougar tracks in some mud,so i was checking them out because they were pretty big and i saw that the water it stepped in was still murky right on the print area and clear elsewhere.so it had to be right in the area very close that spooked the hell out of me needless to say i didn't waste any time getting out of there i didn't run out just walked normally with an eye over my shoulder the hole way out.the hatchery released a lot of smolts and they are still pretty thick.maybe the cat was feeding on some i didnt stick around to find out.

Good comments glow ball I agree. Everyone keeps jumping around talking about bear and then cougar. These animals have different instincts. First of all I have hunted bears for years. When ever I have encountered a bear the instant they smell you they head on a dead sprint the opposite way. dont forget Grizzleys and black bears are much different from one another. Obviously Alaska has a ton more bears than we do if you have ever been there. I dont think statistics need to be involved in this conversation. A person will be lucky to ever see a cougar in his/her life. The dude about the wolves your an absolute idiot!! Lets remember where we live and what we love and that is fish and wildlife so if you dont like it dont fish in the wilderness. I would recommend to move to California if you dont want to see bears or cougs

I've had cougars trail me on the river...

I went back to fish again a stretch I had fished earlier one morning to find fresh kitty prints in my footsteps...

One time I was fishing a relatively remote OP stream in the snow, followed my own foot prints back and found fresh kitty prints. Did I mention how dark it was? Yikes that was long walk/power walk back to my rig...

If you want to carry a sidearm to the river that's your right and I wouldn't take that away from anyone.

I think it would be wise though to REALLY think about why you are taking it to the river and consider if its really necessary.

I've have never heard of anyone successfully defending against a cougar attack with a gun...never. Who but hunters and fishermen put themselves any deeper in cougar country...

I do know this with some measure of certainty as it has been related to me by great grandfather, a logger, woodsman and avid hunter of deer, elk and cougar on the OP during a time when nearly the only pressure was by locals....

...cougar attacks are defended best by using your arms to protect your neck, not reach for your gun. Usually by the time you are able to reach for your gun the cougar is hightailing it out of there...

The ONE place my great grandfather never took his gun was the river...

Surprisingly, I'm not a real big anti-gun guy either. I wouldn't be so looking forward to firing my father-in-law's Kalashnikov this weekend if I were....I just can't think of a reason why anyone would feel the need to have a firearm on the river. I'm not a prude about it though...if a guy feels like he has to carry a gun in my boat then I'm ok with that....expect me to ask why though.

Just to clarify, California has an abundance of cougar in fact there have been fatal attacks by cougar in the state.

Fact of the matter is cougars benefit human safety. In the last century there has been one fatal cougar attach in Washington, zero in Oregon. Many people have died by hitting, or attempting to avoid deer and elk on highways. Cougars control large ungulates. This reduces the presences of these animals on highways. The alternative is hunters shooting deer and elk. Statistics prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that humans with guns controlling deer and elk herds are many times more dangerous to humans than abundant and healthy natural predators (cougars and wolves) controlling these animals.

It is disgusting to hear hound hunters use false information to create fear of wildlife in a naive public.

He should just be glad that it ws not a bear interested in his springer!

Jay

fair hooker,
The cougars do control the deer herd, but when the population of cats gets too high the deer herd dwindles dramatically. Like right now. In most of western washington you can't see a dozen deer on a night of driving around the backroads when you used to be able to see 30-40. Now I know this isn't all because of the cougars, but they do eat a deer a week. I'm sure a few narrow minded individuals will jump and say " I got deer all over my area" well it won't be long and the cats will be there to take care of them.

It won't be long and the fuzzy bunny people will figure out whats happening to the deer and they'll start complaining to the WDFW about how they aren't doing their job. When in reality they're the ones who helped wipe the deer herds out by wiping out the hounds.

By the way there are way more encounters than those stats show. Probably that many in lewis county alone. Country folk don't run to the man every time they have a problem.

Can't believe no one has shown concern for the 25# springer on the back of his pack. That is the real tragedy!