So Harley, have you been watching that new show on the Discovery channel called American Chopper. That is one entertaining show. I find my self looking forward to it each week.

Maguana

Is that the one where the Dad does nothing and yells at his son the entire show?

Good show, the Dad needs to be slapped up side his head for his childish acts.

From the looks of his dad, feel free.

My co-workers have told me about that show, but I haven't caught it yet. I don't watch much television for some reason.

I've heard about the dad on that show. Really goes balistic over everything, and the kid doesn't know when to keep his mouth shut. Must be a "youth" thing because my kid does the same thing.

BW

Not me, maybe Arnold

Please read the whole thing...

mishandled or ignored intelligence

Not a smoking gun but pretty close...

Yeah, that's pretty amazing stuff. I read the op-ed piece by Wilson in the NY Times and find it extremely derelict that Bush would include it in his speech.

The other really funny thing is the documents Bush said the British had that supported his claims of Iraq's nukes were both from the US. One was the plagarized thesis from a grad student in California, and the other was the CIA intelligence report.

What this all really means is, there was no threat to the US. We were in no imminent danger. Not from nukes, not from chemicals, not from biological weapons. Iraq posed no threat what-so-ever. The CIA has also stated last Thursday that they concluded there was no link between Iraq and al Queda. And Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfield knew it all along.

There was no reason to send our troops to war. The safety of America - our freedom - was never in jeopardy. Saddam was contained, being watched, and posed a threat to no one.

In other words, all those brave soldiers died in vain.

They didn't die for the noble cause of protecting our way of life - our freedom. They didn't die for the security of America. They died because a group of men with ill intent conjured up an image that scared the public into believing them.

And they continue to die because the arrogance of those same men refuse to acknowledge their miscalculations. They grossly underestimated the Iraqi peoples' will to be Arabs, not Americans.

The bottom line is, over 200 Americans and 6000 Iraqi civilians have died because someone lied. That is inexcusable.

Sounds like the same old dogs barking on the same old porch to me....Wish I was back in Neah Bay soaking up all that beauty and fishing and sunshine......what a great country.

Slabquest I do see some light here...I read these postings and see nothing but hatred for opposing political views....pathetic and blind hatred as if it is a cause celeb... some sort of elitist badge of honor.

I feel sorry for the haters as they march to
the same drum. I much prefer to appreciate what we have here in this country and enjoy the freedoms we have all around us every day. Cruising out into the Pacific ocean to seek out the fish we all are supposed to be here talking about I can't help but be very thankful. What a shame that this thread consumes 8 pages of rehashing the same ground trying deperately to prove a spiteful theory.

Wake up and smell the salt air my misguided friends ....

*sigh*........ Where do I start?

Just to clear the air..... I DID send a PM trying to clear up a misunderstanding and received quite a lecture and discounting of my attempt to apologize...... At THAT point I returned a PM stating that, if that was how my PM trying to smooth out the misunderstanding was going to be accepted then you could "kiss my ass" and "have a good one", if I remember correctly. I will not waste my breath trying to correct a misunderstanding I created, on someone who obviously could care less if I am sorry or not.
Search a few of my threads, and anyone will see that I have agreed with and quoted Aunty several times.... Not to mention the times I have stated that she was "right on", etc.....
I just have little patience for "debaters" that will accuse me of bigotry, racism, or "intolerance of others who disagree" from someone that can equally give a good verbal flogging (Ramon of WT is a good example.....

To ALL I may have PERSONALLY offended, I apologize here and now! I do not mean any personal attack on anyone, just because I strongly disagree with their ideals.

Can't we all just get along and go fishing???


MC

Grandpa tell me something. Did you defend Clinton as much when he was in office? Or do you only defend the right wing.

Personally I am rather hard on both.

You said 'hard on'....



hehehe

hehehehehehehe

It is not my intention to defend anyone. When Clinton was in office I didn't spend hours searching the internet for possible dirt to try to prove some case about how bad he was. So grab your fishing rods and go fishing.

Boy I would if I could. Still looking for a women that wants to support me in a mannor I in which I would like to become acustomed. For now the best I can do during the week is stuff like this.

goharley...

Osama Bin Laden was being watched and was supposedly "contained" as well

Granpda... When Clinton was in office you wouldnt have to go looking on the internet for dirt on him... He pretty much brought enough out into the open by himself.

Curtis

Sorry, Curtie, but Osama was/is not the head of a regime in a strategically important geo-political area. He did not have sanctions leveled against him. He was no more "contained" than you or I.

I realize that Clinton-bashing has become a national pastime rivalling baseball, but eventually some of you will need to put things in perspective. Clinton's sexcapades significantly pale in comparison to the loss of life caused by Bush's world-opinion-be-damned attitude.

When pundits around the world wrote of Clinton's scandal it was with a wink-wink, nudge-nudge, atta-boy smirk. Time will tell how the world evaluates Bush, but thus far it is with a disdain and abhorrence of his arrogance.

So what? Who cares what the world thinks - we're Americans, by God! Sorry, but that attitude just doesn't work in today's geo-political arena.

Umm goharley...

Do you and I have whole sections at Langley watching our every move, looking for evidence of our location, to tip off local authorities for our arrest?

And sorry to bash your beloved Clinton... You're right, having a man who can't hold back his sexual desires as president is far better then a president who doesnt turn a blind eye to embassy bombings and such.

Sorry man, but when I'm 40-50 years old (if I make it ), I'll be living in the world our leaders are making for me now... Although I dont agree with all Bush's environmental issues, I do like the fact that I may be able to live securely in a nation not under attack.

Curtis

I'm sure that above question is rhetorical, and, honestly, I don't see where it fits into the discussion. However, I think it makes my point of not being contained.

Read material other than National Review and you'll learn that most of the individuals responsible for embassy/US interest bombings have been apprehended. (Oh, and btw, coincidently, none were Iraqi) These people are apprehended through the help and cooperation of other governments - we don't send our law enforcement all over the world chasing bad guys. It's called a good foriegn policy.

Now imagine if you do live to be 40 or 50 and our leaders, by then, have trashed our foriegn policy so badly that other governments are no longer willing to help us hunt down terrorists. It's already happening. (do you really think bin Laden and Hussein are that good at playing hide and seek without help?) Will you then still feel safe and secure?

That says alot where your coming from. Blinded by the idealogical light. Free your mind from the left vs right shackles.