No, not you Dogfish, but real dogfish. I saw a guy out at PtD bring a dogfish to the boat. Instead of releasing it, he took his filet knife and slit the gut open and pulled the inards out, then let it fall back into the water dead. Since the dogfish were plentiful this weekend, I imagine he probably did this to many a dogfish, all while his little boy watched, probably 6-8 years old.

I wasn't sure how I felt about this. I hate the dogs as much as the next guy, but I don't kill them on purpose either. I guess they are like the moles of the salt, and I try to kill every mole in my yard, although I have had as much luck with them lately as with the salmon.

What do you all think? Would you think this was an ok thing to do?

Dogfish have their place in the ecosystem--- we should not intentionally kill them, plus it's illegal.

It is illeagal to do that according to the regs.

I have killed my share. I have seen them eat their own guts.

I usually just release them cuz the longer you mess with them, the more grief they cause.

Recently, I noticed that it is illegal to kill them.

I will sometimes kill dogfish. If the hook is easy to get then I will just let them go but, if I have to dig for trhe hook, which happens often, then I stab the dogfish with a knife. I just don't want to get a nasty bite from them. I like to think that I'm feeding other fish and stuff when I kill them, mostly it's just one less dogfish!

My opinion is that it is not OK to do. In 150 years we will hopefully still be fishing for Salmon in PS, and Dogfish will still be caught as incidentally. Killing the few you catch will not reduce the population significantly.

They are also part of the ecosystem, "Underwater Crows" I would assume. They play a role, vital or not, and should be left alone.

Wow, 3 semi-simultaneous posts saying the same thing.

They used to be commercially fished (almost to depletion) in the PS, mainly for thier liver oil. Then a synthetic oil was produced and the fishing abated.

It would be kind of like making mosquitoes extinct.

If there were less doggies, would there be more crab?

That's kind of what we humans think every time we manipulate a species for our own benefit, most times it causes impacts [ usually negative] we don't think of.

When I was a kid my mom always wanted me to bring the dogs home for her. She would use them to furtilize her roses sticking them in holes dug around the roots. She always had the best roses around.

Reminds me of the mentality that killing dolly vardens was benefitial to our salmon-steelhead populations.Look what happened there.

Can't say I havent offed a few dogfish in my past though.We used to fish off the old harpers ferry terminal when we were kids.A friend worked at the local fish farm.He used to get seal explosives.Basicly a waterproof m-80.We used to catch dogfish,shove a lit sealbomb down its throat and let it swim away.I just cut the leader these days though.

I often wonder about the bounty on the squawfish.I guess they are probably alot like the seal populations though.most of us believe that it would be benefitial to kill them?

Hell I am busy shooting crows out of my cherry trees as we speak.They have gotten wise to me though.

I have never intentionally killed them. Since I usually fish artificials I dont usually have a problem with them. The occasional one that I do pick up is fairly easy to release since they dont swallow the artificials as deep as bait. I do try to wash off the lure to get their odor off cause its been my experience that a lure will quit catching fish after a doggie's gotten to it. Unless of course its another doggie

I did a lot of surfing on the web for the proper care of a doggy meant for the table. Never found anything.

The back half of some of thse three footers looks pretty good. We took a fillet off of one a few years ago, and it looked veru edibl, so we fed it to the crab pot. No on had the guts to cook it up (they pee through there skin I hear).

There is a movement in the commercial industry to rename them as "Bay Sharks". trying to make a market for them.

RK43

thay was funny! You said "The back half of some of thse three footers looks pretty good. We took a fillet off of one a few years ago, and it looked veru edibl, so we fed it to the crab pot. No one had the guts to cook it up ' (they pee through there skin I hear)."......So do we humans ......kind of!!

Cowlitzfisherman

haven't been out in the sound recently, but yes i used to bonk a few of them out of frustration.

i think it's more of a politically correctness thing to not kill them, since there are so many of these things, and not many people fish for them intentionally(not sure about commercials)

now i think it's too much effort to smack them over the head or stick them with the bait knife, than to just cut the leader. i believe it's an image thing, like banning gaff hooks on all species except dogs, halibut, and albacore

[edit] anybody remember dogfish derbies back in the day? i think it was before my time, but i've heard of constests being held to see how many you could bring in, and that people would drag a dinghy behind their fishing boat just to stack up a pile of those little devils

Killing is wrong! Killing is wrong! Killing is wrong!!

Maybe it's just called the "pecking order"! It sure seem like each specie of life on this planet has a higher species (or pecking order) that dominates and controls the lower specie from its own overpopulation problems!

Just maybe, mankind was the one who was supposed to control the dog fish (pecking order theory)!

No, that would be just too simple of a debate! What will it be next . . . ants . . . flies. . . mosquitoes! Where will it end?

Pretty soon WDFW will be proposing laws that will prohibit you from killing insects because they are a "natural scheme" of life that is part of the ecological system. I can just hear it now (200 years from today); Do not kill bacteria, it is part of the ecological system and it has a right to live, and killing bacteria will effect all of it subspecies of life!

What have we done to good old fashion logic that has keep humans around for all of this time?

OK, I will come off my soap box now and hear all about the "what if's"!


Cowlitzfisherman

As stated earlier the reproductive cycle of dog fish is VERY slow so killing a couple each time you go out fishing can impact the population. Especially if it is a common practice amoungst all salt water fishers. Squafish bounties were mentioned earlier as being possibly the same thing but there is one very important difference squawfish are a non native species. How would you feel if you saw me on the river killing every chum I landed because I was targeting silvers and the chums were annoying me? I probaly would get beat I imagine. Killing for killings sake is not some thing I agree with so just cut the leadere and move on.

A couple of years ago there was a movement to quit planting trout in the high mountain lakes of the Cascade National Park because the trout were "decimating the insect population".

Killing anything you aren't going to eat is bad, wrong and illegal PERIOD!

JR32

You have stated that; "Squafish bounties were mentioned earlier as being possibly the same thing but there is one very important difference 'squawfish are a non native species'

Well Jr32, I hate be the one to "pop" your bubble about that one, but "northern pikeminnow (squafish) are native to the Columbia River system."

Sorry, but that's the way that it is!

Cowlitzfisherman

Rob.............. is that right!

Are you talking about only fish or are you talking about anything that walks, crawls, flies, bites or lays maggots?

Cowlitzfisherman

The intention killing of Dogfish is a BIG no no!
I believe the ticket is stiff- $250.00!

If I happen to catch one, which is rarely, I keep them for veggie or rose garden! They make wonderful fertilizer!!

Lastly, they are edible... some seafood chains are cooking dogfish as "fish" in fish and chips.

Sorry CFM but I do not belive they are.http://www.fisheries.org/idaho/northern_pikeminnow.htm

It may be a mistake but the Columbia is not listed here.

And Rob I don't know anyone that eats coyotes, or for that matter moles, yuk. I could come up with a few others but It's about dinner time and I would like to be able to eat it. <img border="0" alt="[eat]" title="" src="graemlins/eat.gif" />

The guy next to us in our boat slip (canadian)
says he loves to eat them and always asks us to bring them back for him.

ive also killed a few over the years nowadays only the ones that are around 4ft fillet out right away and put in a container with milk and a couple splashes of vinegar overnight on ice ( supposed to remove the urine as they do urinate thru their skin) nice boneless fillets and they taste as good as any other whitefish with the exception of halibut in my opinion

BW


If you don't believe me or the statement below, check it out for yourself at:
http://www.efw.bpa.gov/EW/SUBJECTS/EDUCATION/PIKEMINNOW/pikeminnow99.htm

or; http://www.pikeminnow.org/info.htm

"The northern pikeminnow is a large member of the minnow family. It has a long snout and large mouth. It is dusky green above and silvery-bronze below. It is similar in shape to the walleye, but a pikeminnow doesn't have the walleye's spiny dorsal fins and white-tipped tail fin. Unlike walleye, northern pikeminnow are native to the Columbia River system."


Cowlitzfisherman

I used to cut their tails off and release them, I also used to shoot all birds and squirrels I ran across with my pellet gun. I've grown up since then.
One summer back in the early 80's I found a lot of dogfish around Guemes Is. with baloons on 10 feet of leader tied to their tails. Anybody care to claim that one? I thought it funny back then .

Before you take dogfish into your diet, you might do some research. As I recall, one of the problems with our beloved variety is that it has a heavy concentration of mercury. I don't recall the details as it's been 15 years or so ago when I read the WDF report, but the concentrations weren't at toxic levels but would accumulate in time. It seems like the mercury in the fish was above federal guidelines, so the flesh couldn't be sold. Certainly, you shouldn't feed doggies to kids or pregnant women until this has been verified-- or not.

Keith

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh............

Should I be worried????

In Great Britain they call it "flake", and they are eaten all over the world in various recipes, primarily as 'fish & chips". 100 grams of dogfish has 156 calories and 9 grams of fat, second only to the king salmon with 222 calories and 15.6 grams of fat.

The fish should be soaked in lemon juice or vinegar overnight to neutralize the urea.

Zen Leecher was kind enough to give me a book called "The Dogfish Cookbook" by Russ Mohney. The funny thing is that since I got the book I have not caught one, but we have been thinking about a "Dogfish Derby" for the boys since they have always wanted to catch a shark. Might just have to give one of the 65 recipes in the book a try.

Andy

Squawfish (I refuse to call them "northern pikeminnow"), Ptychocheilus oregonensis, are not only native to the Columbia River drainage but also to most major river systems in Oregon, Washington and British Columbia as far north as the Nass. Other species of the genus Ptychocheilus are common throughout other western states from California to Colorado.

Kinda funny that people will eat dogfish but when I tried using one for crab bait the crabs wouldnt touch it. Smart crabs

Well like I said it could have been a mistake that the Columbia was omited from the list on that web site. O- well, my bad. <img border="0" alt="[wall]" title="" src="graemlins/wall.gif" />

When eating dogfish, there are concerns about mercury levels (as with almost any long-lived, predatory fish that bioaccumulates mercury)- so I wouldn't do it every day

Here are just a few market names under which Dogfish (Squalus Acanthias) are sold around the world:

Sand Shark, Gray Fish, Rock Cod, Rock Salmon

Doesn't ROCK SALMON sound so much better to eat than Dogfish!

... and on that Squawfish debate- I believe I have read that they are native to the Columbia system, however the reservoir pools at the dams have caused the populations to increase over historical levels as they like these slow water "lake" environments.

If killing dogfish is a sin, I am toast. I will save you from ALL the gory descriptions of torture, experiments and general biocide (is that a word?)
I can tell you that like the movie "Jaws" they blow up good! And if you think you are good at making herring spin... try adding; flip, barrel roll, shake, flop, stall, tow and play dead...

Okay, I am not proud of my teenage years for many reasons and I am willing mend my ways but I may need help. Is there a dogfish anti-violence support group? DADF? Dogfish Against Drunken Fishermen? DBA? Dogfish Beaters Anonymous?
I can't imaging eating them though, Mercury or not. Mom taught me to never play with with my food. Therefore, I could never see them as tablefare.

Is it still okay to play with them though? Have ya ever grabbed em by the nose, turned them upside-down and let them chew on stuff? Pencils, bait, paper or whatever is laying around. They are pretty good at crushing Coke cans. And the spikes... have you ever made them stab stuff? Now that is fun!

Let me know...

I'm sure somewhere down the road some advertising agency will get in on it and you'll see them marketed as "first of the year wild Copper River Dogfish!" $30 a pound!

I'm stocking up.

JTD

Now that was a pretty funny post!

Cowlitzfisherman

JTD that reminds me we used to ........ uh er oh never mind. Anyway if you start the support group I'll be the first to join!

JTD-

thanks for all the ideas! Cant wait to try them out!

while in school we had to disect dogfish. I hate the smell of formeldihyde ( I forgot how to spell it!)
So I asked the teacher if I could bring in a fresh one, he said alright but it would be harder to identify the nerves and veins as the preserved doggy's were injected with die.
My fish ended up being the class study because after many years of dogfish torture I learned that I could put my left hand on top of the fishes head and grab the nose with my right really tight and twist it off exposing the entire brain, optic nerves (eyes included), and ofactory nerves without any damage to them.
I wonder if my teacher still uses that technique?

Ditto here..... What a crock.

I have tried Dogfish, and it was very good. I must say that although I have "bonked" certain fish (Squawfish, etc.) in the past, the guy slitting the fish open in front of his little boy is a real asshole. I cannot believe some of the people in this world today. Some will say "he probably didn't think about it when he did it" but that is the problem. So many people do not think about their kids any more or put their (the kids) well being above all else. I, and I am sure most on this great board, would never show such a complete lack of respect for any wildlife in front of my children or grandchildren. Teach them to hunt, fish, control predators, etc... But do it with class and always teach them to have respect for nature. Sure, I have had days when the Dogfish would not leave my herring alone, but hey...... I MOVED TO A DIFFERENT SPOT!
That was what my Dad taught me as a child in the sound... To quote him "Son, if you get in a place where you can't keep the dogfish off your line, you have to move or you will just keep catching them". I usually had so much fun catching one after another I would want to stay for the fun......

Regards,

MC