Check

 

Defiance Boats!

LURECHARGE!

THE PP OUTDOOR FORUMS

Kast Gear!

Power Pro Shimano Reels G Loomis Rods

  Willie boats! Puffballs!

 

Three Rivers Marine

 

 
Page 2 of 2 < 1 2
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
#212551 - 09/27/03 09:06 AM Re: Let's do something about gillnetting!
Fishinnut Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 09/23/02
Posts: 1216
Loc: Monroe, Washington
I can't help thinking about one step farther down the road. This is another option/angle to approach within your letters. Somewhere it is written that you cannot spawn fish out of another river system to another. If this were possible and we could start spawning 5 year old fish again in the Puget Sound, could you imagine the positive impacts that would have on the economy? We had Curt Kraemer (WDFW Biologist) come to one of our PSA meetings. He told us that it takes 5 year old fish spawn 5 year old fish(40-50#). These 2-3 year old fish we have now are not going to spawn big kings (5 year olds). The nets they used to use many years ago were 9 1/2" mesh. I bet it is half that size now. Get the nets out and start rebuilding stocks. I am sure there are a few 5 year olds left in every river system somewhere. That would really fire off the economy. I bet you would not see as many full colored BC fishing brochures in our region as there would be no reason to fish elsewhere. Look at what the Columbia River fish have done for the Ocean towns this year. At Neah Bay this year, we had a huge group of people that spent 1-2 weeks out there. I spent $2300 myself with my wife and son, just on the one trip. I spent almost everyweekend after that at Westport. This was a major 5 year old return for the Coastal fish. Think if we could get the nets out and return these huge kings to the Sound. I bet the recreational dollars spent documented last year would be ten times that. We would once again have people from all over the US bringing their sportfishing dollars back into Washington-like it was 30 years ago. Just an other perspective to include. Sportsfishing is a way of life for us and is also valuable to our economy.
_________________________
Join the Puget Sound Anglers Sno-King Chapter. Meets second Thursday of every month at the SCS Center, 220 Railroad Ave. Edmonds, WA 98020 at 6:30pm Two buildings south of the Edmonds Ferry on the beach.

Top
#212552 - 09/28/03 02:06 PM Re: Let's do something about gillnetting!
Smalma Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/25/01
Posts: 2844
Loc: Marysville
If you are serious about attempting to change the status quo in this State it would be well to be clear about your objectives - are you anti commerical fishing or anti gill nets?

I'm not sure that the claim that the WDFW commission is unfairly tilted towards the commerical industry is true. A quick review of the 9 member's thumbnail bios show that 5 listed themselves as being avid fishers. The sport fishing interest appears to be fairly represented (though heavily tilted to the conservation and quality fishing side). The hunting interest appear to be under-represented (only one listed hunting as an interest - bird hunting and dog bredding). I think your really problem may be with WDFW's legislative mandate - that is to maintain a viable commerical industry. If so changing the commission will accomplish nothing. Perhaps the effort to change the mandate should be directed towards the state legislature, and efforts aimed at the commission would be spend on educating that body to your desires and concerns.

Fishinnut -
While is true that our large chinook (5 and 6 year old) are much rarer today than in the past gill nets have had little to do with their downfall. It has been established that retruning adult fish exposed to heavy gill netting the result is that smaller fish end up spawning- the classic example would be Puget Sound coho. However with chinook the problem is not so much that they are smaller at a given size but rather the adult spawning population has become younger. This is primarily the result of fishing on the immature fish on their feeding grounds. In the case of chinook this means that they are harvests as 3, 4, 5, and 6 years old which greatly reduces that chances of a fish living to be 6 years old. Just an example if there were a constant 30% per year fishing rate in these feeding areas 70% of the fish that mature as 3 year olds would be uncaught, 49% that mature as 4 years would be uncaught, 34% of the 5 year olds, and 24% of the 6s. Clearly the old fish pay a heavy price in those fisheries.

If we wish to see more of those older/larger chinook (and I do) we need to change our fishing patterns and I don't mean ban gill nets (lots of other reason to do so but this is one). The catch of those feeding chinook (blackmouth) is mostly hook and line fisheries -sport, charter, and troll. For Washington chinook those feeding fish are caught in SE Alaska, north, west and east of Vancouver Island, Washington Coast, Straits of Juan de Fuca, and Puget Sound.

We are seeing more older fish this year in large part due to the recent reduced fishing rates in those ocean feeding areas (good feeding conditions results in the fish of a given age being larger than normal but not older). If older chinook are desired than we as a group need to lobby for less fishing on immature fish and as individuals decide not to fish those areas.

Those anglers that opt to fish chinook on the West Coast of Vancouver Island, SE Alaska, the Washington Coast etc are very much part of the problem of younger Washington chinook (more so than gill nets). This would doubly be true of those anglers that release smaller chinook (teen agers) in hope of larger fish (30+#). That practice is clearly selecting against having older spawnig and pass on that genetic trait.

Past "ban the nets" efforts have failed in part due to its supports not having done all their home work (generally angler apathy did help either). If you are serious I encourage you to clearly state your goals, what a realistic expectation of what those goals will do for the resource, the various fisheries and economies. One false claim or arguement opens the whole effort to attack.

Just my $.02.

Tight lines
Smalma

Top
#212553 - 09/28/03 03:00 PM Re: Let's do something about gillnetting!
grandpa2 Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 06/04/03
Posts: 1796
Loc: Brier, Washington
Smalma

The commercial fishing bias on the WDFW commission is not a function of the specific make up of the commission but a function of their actions. Time and time again decisions are handed down, like the shrimp allocations this Spring, that stink of bias. The commissioners even ignore their own biologists and also the majority of public opinion. They constantly hide behind the legislative mandate malarchy when their decisions are widely criticized. The commissioners go out of their way to dismiss all the studies done by researchers pointing out the lopsided benfit of sports fishing to the state economy. "It doesn't matter"..is what I remember two of the prominent commissioners saying prior to allowing public comment. Just calling a commissioner a "sport" oriented member because he happens to sport fish is way too simplistic and off the mark. I would say a true sports fishing member would be someone that has long credentials working for sports fishing enhancement and not a fly fisherman or bird watcher. Watch what they do, not what they say.

Also the Chinook that feed and grow in SE Alaska are not just predated by sports fishing. There is a huge troll fishery up there that catches a substantial number of "our fish"....those returning to our state. Much of the hook and line fishing for blackmouth in Puget Sound is targetting fish raised specifically for local harvest and does not consist of future 5 or 6 year old Chinook for the most part.

Beware of simplifying this issue too much.
_________________________
Join Puget Sound Anglers Today and help us support sports fishing. http://groups.msn.com/psasnoking

Top
#212554 - 09/28/03 03:48 PM Re: Let's do something about gillnetting!
Smalma Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/25/01
Posts: 2844
Loc: Marysville
Grandpa2 -
My main point is exactly as you point out: "Beware of simplifying this issue too much."

The commission does not have the authority to change the mandate to maintain a viable commerical fishing industry. Instead of beating them over the head with economic studies why not beat those the have the responsbility to change that mandate- our state legislators. While we all may wish that the WDFW commission was more agressive in supply a leadership role in issues such of this presenting then with additional studies really doesn't mean a thing, they aren't the decision makers in this case.

I'm aware that trollers play a large role in the fishing on feeding chinook. Believe that I listed them along with the sport and charter fleet.

While much of the Puget Sound blackmouth fishery is on hatchery fish there is a wild part of the catch. Many of those wild chinook that are caught in that fishery are those that are in the most trouble in Puget Sound - spring and summer chinook. Even the fishing on immature hatchery chinook results in a younger population. It was not always the case that a large hatchery chinook was 20#. That may or may not be important to an individual angler.

In topic such as these there are many complicate aspects to the discussion and i'm more than willing to discuss them in detail if that is your interest.

Tight lines
Smalma

Top
#212555 - 09/28/03 04:35 PM Re: Let's do something about gillnetting!
Anonymous
Unregistered



Top
#212556 - 09/28/03 06:41 PM Re: Let's do something about gillnetting!
grandpa2 Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 06/04/03
Posts: 1796
Loc: Brier, Washington
For those with enough time to look up the RCW (thank you) maybe you can look into who sponsored the legislation. I think you will find commercial fishing lobbying all over it. Certainly wasn't re-written to take into account the upswing in sport dollars to the economy. The RFA seems like our best shot in the near term to get some legislation pushed through that will help sports fishing.

The legislators are all part of a rat pack in Olympia that includes the governor. They all share the same chunk of cheese and scratch each others backs. The commissioners are appointed by the governor so he can repay favors to the commercial fishing lobby that helped keep him in office. We need a great big rat trap to set right outside the capital. Start getting rid of the corrupt rats and elect some people who aren't in the pocket of special commercial fishing interests.

Maybe we should form an alliance with the tribes and get tribal members elected in Olympia in exchange for abolishing gill netting and purse seining. The tribes will have a monopoly and we get more sports fishing.
_________________________
Join Puget Sound Anglers Today and help us support sports fishing. http://groups.msn.com/psasnoking

Top
#212557 - 09/28/03 07:02 PM Re: Let's do something about gillnetting!
cowlitzfisherman Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 06/14/00
Posts: 1866
Loc: Toledo, Washington
Grandpa

It looks like I am not the "only guy" with a big banana in his pocket! laugh laugh

If you think that one was bad, what special interest or lobby would you supposed pushed this one into law?

RCW 77.50.040
Commercial net fishing for salmon in tributaries of Columbia river -- Boundaries defined.
(1) The commission shall adopt rules defining geographical boundaries of the following Columbia river tributaries and sloughs:
(a) Washougal river;
(b) Camas slough;
(c) Lewis river;
(d) Kalama river;
(e) Cowlitz river;
(f) Elokomin river;
(g) Elokomin sloughs;
(h) Skamokawa sloughs;
(i) Grays river;
(j) Deep river;
(k) Grays bay.

(2) The commission may authorize commercial net fishing for salmon in the tributaries and sloughs from September 1st to November 30th only, if the time, areas, and level of effort are regulated in order to maximize the recreational fishing opportunity while minimizing excess returns of fish to hatcheries. The commission shall not authorize commercial net fishing if a significant catch of steelhead would occur.

When will sport fishermen ever learn????????
_________________________
Cowlitzfisherman

Is the taste of the bait worth the sting of the hook????

Top
#212558 - 09/28/03 07:38 PM Re: Let's do something about gillnetting!
Anonymous
Unregistered



Top
#212559 - 09/29/03 02:06 AM Re: Let's do something about gillnetting!
Rob Allen Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 05/10/03
Posts: 318
Loc: Vancouver WA
The best way to get rid of commercial fishing is for sport anglers to target a fishery and set up a group to buy commercial fishing licenses as they become available then hold thoes licenses indefinetly...
we can scream and yell all we want but as long as we make a surplus of salmon in our hatcheries they will continue to have seasons to fish for them..

Top
#212560 - 09/29/03 11:37 AM Re: Let's do something about gillnetting!
Fishinnut Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 09/23/02
Posts: 1216
Loc: Monroe, Washington
There are a lot of good ideas on this board. I agree with most but disagree wwith the gillnetting not being one of the major benefactors. Yes, all take a toll on our bigger Puget Sound Kings-Which is primarily what I am talking about. BC has supposedly cut out most of their commercial non tribal-fishing, but not so from what I have been told by some of the tackle manufacturers in BC. Last year when I flew to Hakai Pass. I counted 21 nets strung across Johnstone Straight (East side of Vancouver Island). These were all in an area of about five miles long. This doesn't include what I couldn't see out the other side of the plane. These very well could have been first nations nets. I don't know. They were all strategically placed going straight out from the main land corners and begining of islands. You cannot tell me this doesn't make a big difference on a fish run. I am sure there are jsut as many on the outside of Vancouver Island. One main factor that might help is the fish running timing being off so that they miss it, but not that likely. When the ground stocks of Yelloweye at Neah Bay are listed fish now. How come they are still out there in these areas of this netting? The big mother ship and smaller ones are out there targeting sable cod in the same areas. These are a bottom fish too. I saw and have pictures somewhere where they dumped all of the smaller ones. We drove through them. The ones that weren't dead were belly up gasping and dieing. This is not good.
_________________________
Join the Puget Sound Anglers Sno-King Chapter. Meets second Thursday of every month at the SCS Center, 220 Railroad Ave. Edmonds, WA 98020 at 6:30pm Two buildings south of the Edmonds Ferry on the beach.

Top
#212561 - 09/29/03 11:39 AM Re: Let's do something about gillnetting!
Fishinnut Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 09/23/02
Posts: 1216
Loc: Monroe, Washington
Rob Allen, That is a good idea. Do you have any idea how to fund it? This would be a massive amount of money.
_________________________
Join the Puget Sound Anglers Sno-King Chapter. Meets second Thursday of every month at the SCS Center, 220 Railroad Ave. Edmonds, WA 98020 at 6:30pm Two buildings south of the Edmonds Ferry on the beach.

Top
#212562 - 10/01/03 12:38 AM Re: Let's do something about gillnetting!
spawnout Offline
Spawner

Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 845
Loc: Satsop
Hey Folks, I got an e-mail back from Representitive Brian Hatfield, who, after a sentence or two of impolite personal attacks (he actually knows who I am - imagine that rolleyes ), stated "I could care less about your views on sport vs. commercial fishing... " Well, I guess we know where he is at. He represents all the folks that live in the Willapa Bay watershed and down at Buoy 10. He apparently thinks it's just fine to give the fish away to the commercials at a nickle a pound and at the expense of the rest of us. I think whoever runs against him deserves our support, don't you :p
_________________________
The fishing was GREAT! The catching could have used some improvement however........

Top
#212563 - 10/01/03 08:28 AM Re: Let's do something about gillnetting!
grandpa2 Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 06/04/03
Posts: 1796
Loc: Brier, Washington
Someone with time on their hands could probably find where Brian's campaign contributions come from. If he is from Willapa area he is supporting his constituants in the commercial business.
_________________________
Join Puget Sound Anglers Today and help us support sports fishing. http://groups.msn.com/psasnoking

Top
#212564 - 10/01/03 03:17 PM Re: Let's do something about gillnetting!
jeff'e'd Offline
Spawner

Registered: 07/10/00
Posts: 978
Loc: Snohomish, WA USA
It would be nice if one of the represetatives around Puget Sound would speak up so that us voters their area actually could have a stake in the matter vote based on an informed oppinion.

Top
#212565 - 10/09/03 10:37 PM Re: Let's do something about gillnetting!
spawnout Offline
Spawner

Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 845
Loc: Satsop
Well, here's one that spoke up in an e-mail just sent to me. Good to know that we have at least one friend on the hill. Let's get out the vote for Ike laugh thumbs

"I agree with your entire position on salmon. I have tried three times in 3
years to pass legislation that would achieve a more balanced approach. I
could never get the legislation out of committee and I was told such
legislation would not pass in the Senate. I wanted to start with the Hood
Canal as a demonstration and go from there. I am always looking for an
opening or change of circumstances to get legislation passed and will
continue to do so. I thank you very much for sharing your opinion with me.
Sincerely,
Representative Bill "Ike" Eickmeyer
35th Legislative District"
_________________________
The fishing was GREAT! The catching could have used some improvement however........

Top
#212566 - 10/21/03 11:41 PM Re: Let's do something about gillnetting!
Anonymous
Unregistered


Spawnout the legislation Eickmeyer wanted to pass would have shut down Hood Canal to ALL fishing except for guess what? You got it...commercial purse seining of chum salmon! His legislation was loaded with made up info....claiming it would restore such fishes as Black cod....take a look at the historical records and one would have to ask the question what Black cod?

I will support any sensible effort to eliminate commercial netting. BTW are you all aware that the WDFW commission is supporting the commercial gillnetters getting 2/3 of the nontribal springer allocation on the Columbia next year?

Top
#212567 - 10/21/03 11:59 PM Re: Let's do something about gillnetting!
Dave Vedder Offline
Reverend Tarpones

Registered: 10/09/02
Posts: 8587
Loc: West Duvall
I must apologize for coming to this thread only recently. I very much agree that we need to control gill nets, but kept away from the thread due to burnout from working so hard on the last initiative where the commercials killed us. Anyway. Does anyone have names and contact info for all the commissioners? It seems to me that even though many are in the pocket of the commercials they might hear our message if we say it loud enough and long enough.
_________________________
No huevos no pollo.

Top
#212568 - 10/22/03 08:15 AM Re: Let's do something about gillnetting!
grandpa2 Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 06/04/03
Posts: 1796
Loc: Brier, Washington
surecatch...here I go agreeing with you again. The commission is pretty protective of its bias towards commercial fishing. Showing up at a commission meeting is the best medicine. Take notes, tape record what they say, take pictures...publicize their comments about how the economics of sports fishing have no bearing on their decisions because the legislature mandates a "viable" commercial fishery. Kind of like propping up a viable buffalo hunting operation. They get pissed when alot of sport fishers show up at meetings but they can't do a damn thing about it. You have a right to speak at the meetings but they will try to stifle you. Perserverance is what we need. Stay in their faces in great numbers and then work on your legislators. Changing the laws is next.
_________________________
Join Puget Sound Anglers Today and help us support sports fishing. http://groups.msn.com/psasnoking

Top
#212569 - 10/22/03 08:16 AM Re: Let's do something about gillnetting!
grandpa2 Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 06/04/03
Posts: 1796
Loc: Brier, Washington
surecatch...here I go agreeing with you again. The commission is pretty protective of its bias towards commercial fishing. Showing up at a commission meeting is the best medicine. Take notes, tape record what they say, take pictures...publicize their comments about how the economics of sports fishing have no bearing on their decisions because the legislature mandates a "viable" commercial fishery. Kind of like propping up a viable buffalo hunting operation. They get pissed when alot of sport fishers show up at meetings but they can't do a damn thing about it. You have a right to speak at the meetings but they will try to stifle you. Perserverance is what we need. Stay in their faces in great numbers and then work on your legislators. Changing the laws is next.
_________________________
Join Puget Sound Anglers Today and help us support sports fishing. http://groups.msn.com/psasnoking

Top
#212570 - 10/22/03 10:41 PM Re: Let's do something about gillnetting!
grandpa2 Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 06/04/03
Posts: 1796
Loc: Brier, Washington
The department shall conserve the wildlife and food fish, game fish, and shellfish resources in a manner that does not impair the resource. In a manner consistent with this goal, the department shall seek to maintain the economic well-being and stability of the fishing industry in the state. The department shall promote orderly fisheries and shall enhance and improve recreational and commercial fishing in this state.


Now what is the definition of the "fishing industry"? Certainly the commission defines it as the "commercial fishing industry".
_________________________
Join Puget Sound Anglers Today and help us support sports fishing. http://groups.msn.com/psasnoking

Top
Page 2 of 2 < 1 2

Moderator:  The Moderator 
Search

Site Links
Home
Our Washington Fishing
Our Alaska Fishing
Reports
Rates
Contact Us
About Us
Recipes
Photos / Videos
Visit us on Facebook
Today's Birthdays
3Gonads, herm
Recent Gallery Pix
hatchery steelhead
Hatchery Releases into the Pacific and Harvest
Who's Online
1 registered (steely slammer), 1107 Guests and 2 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
John Boob, Lawrence, I'm Still RichG, feyt, Freezeout
11498 Registered Users
Top Posters
Todd 28170
Dan S. 17149
Sol Duc 16138
The Moderator 14486
Salmo g. 13520
eyeFISH 12766
STRIKE ZONE 12107
Dogfish 10979
ParaLeaks 10513
Jerry Garcia 9160
Forum Stats
11498 Members
16 Forums
63773 Topics
645292 Posts

Max Online: 3001 @ 01/28/20 02:48 PM

Join the PP forums.

It's quick, easy, and always free!

Working for the fish and our future fishing opportunities:

The Wild Steelhead Coalition

The Photo & Video Gallery. Nearly 1200 images from our fishing trips! Tips, techniques, live weight calculator & more in the Fishing Resource Center. The time is now to get prime dates for 2018 Olympic Peninsula Winter Steelhead , don't miss out!.

| HOME | ALASKA FISHING | WASHINGTON FISHING | RIVER REPORTS | FORUMS | FISHING RESOURCE CENTER | CHARTER RATES | CONTACT US | WHAT ABOUT BOB? | PHOTO & VIDEO GALLERY | LEARN ABOUT THE FISH | RECIPES | SITE HELP & FAQ |