Paranoid- conspiracies, you tell me!

Recently, I have been contacted by several different people who know an awful lot about the Columbia River and the commercial gill net fishery. For obvious reasons, I am keeping there identities private, I have assured them that I would not reveal there personal identity or names, buy if I was to say there names, you would surly know who they were! They are very well known among both the sport fishers and the fishing tackle industry. So if you disagree with what I am about to tell you, please don't scream at me about being Paranoid or making up some kind of new conspiracy about WDFW. I am only the messenger!

I do believe that what they have told me does have some merit and even makes a lot of sense!

These persons have asked me, to ask our board a few questions concerning this issue. They would also like to see if any of our board members may have any additional information concerning this issue. So if you are one of our members who work for, or with our fishery agencies, please do not take this as a personal attack. I am only the messenger!

I do not know if this information is even verifiable, so you will have to take it for what it is worth! Even though I can not verify it, it really begins to makes a lot of sense the more one begins to think about it. I know that it does happen in numerous other jobs, occupations and positions, so it certainly is conceivable that it could have, or has occurred here too.

I have been told by some very reliable names in the fishing sales business that this has occurred, especially on the Columbia. Its concerns some of the key decision making people who work for the fishery departments, who are now "calling all the shots", on the Columbia, and are pushing for the continued gill net fishery on the Columbia River. I was told that a "few key people" had received funding from the Gill netters association years ago when they were getting there educational degrees in fisheries. One has to ask; if this was to be true, would it not be a "conflict" of interest under state law?

Maybe… and maybe not!

Did the gill netters figure out a way to get around giving states employees "gifts" to get what they want by giving the "gift" to the person before they even became a state employee? Did some of these employees get there educational needs funded by the "gill netters" before they even went to work for our state fishery management jobs on the Columbia? Every sport fisher knows that the gill netters have always been free with there money when it comes to making law or rules that benefited their fishery, so why wouldn't they have groomed there own people at an early stage to get their ways in the future?

Assuming that these alleged persons were probably not even state employees at the time; would it be "ethical" or legal now to allow them to continue to be so darn partisan now when it comes to making commercial harvest decisions for the Columbia River? I know it certainly wouldn't apply to 99 % of the states employees, but it only needs to apply to just a few key people to get the effects that the gill netter needed. Since most of our members are anonymous by there real names, do any of you known anything about this? If you do know something about it, and you do not wish to post it on this thread, could you please send me a private email. I will not give out your name, but I would like to reveal any information that you may have concerning this issue.

Maybe these well known people are just blowing in the wind, but one has to wonder why a few key people in our fishery department keep pushing so darn hard for the gill netters in the Columbia River. So without getting mad at me, what is your opinion, and what if anything do you know about this issue?

Remember, this is not a witch-hunt; it's just trying to see if what I am being told is fact or fiction. Again, I am only the messenger!

If this information turns out to be true, what can we do to reverse it?

Thanks ahead of time




Cowlitzfisherman

Cowlitz remember one thing.. the region 5 WDFW commissioner is from Cathlamet.. I think that says a lot..

I'm all in for that AuntyM, I'm looking into that for my studies next year at WSU. I'm leaning more towards the Wildlife Management area though.

I would think that they would still need an inside person that is doing the hiring to make sure those certain people are hired over others... sounds a little fishy to me...

I agree with AuntyM

CFM,

You really should stop smoking that stuff.

CFM,i love conspiracys.you can never be to poranoid.

I think it would be pretty easy to find out if the Gill Netters association has a scholarship fund, and what their policies are regarding disbursement. Just call them. That would answer a lot of questions.

However, I also don't think the association is behaving nefariously in granting such aid, or the recipients in accepting such aid, if they in fact have a program. It's a free country. No-one thinks it wrong if the commisioners sport fish, do we? It's certainly evidence of a prior relationship with the industry, but it's hardly on the order of sleeping with little boys in terms of relative evil.

The one thought I have on this is simply this: If you have a concern about this issue, the straightforward way would to call the commisioners and ask them. Heck, if you want to have fun, do the homework for a newspaper reporter, feed them the results, and have them make the call.

But in the name of being fair, and in protecting your own ability to generate impact on future issues, I suggest you ask the people directly and let them answer. If you don't, and god forbid your information is wrong, then you run the risk of simply spreading potentially baseless rumors. If that were the result, your efficacy on working future issues would be impaired.

Hey now....just because you're paranoid doesn't mean everybody's not out to get you.

I love crooked politics....makes my blood boil. There is an all-to-common belief that if you can get away with it, it's OK. The ol' "end justifies the means" BS.

Oh well, true or not, it's not going to change anything to root it out.....and you'll just get old fighting and die tired....so fish on CFM and forget it.

Years ago I studied, and eventially graduated with a degree in Fisheries. While in college, you have not a clue where your carrer job is going to be, or if you’re going to even be in the fisheries field. I think the idea is pretty far fetched. Payoffs must come after you have the job, not before. I don't believe any Gill Netter support group has been trained by the KGB yet.

calling all gill netters!

I want to go to school to become a fisheries biologist. Any help will be greatly appreciated.

I wont speak of whether I believe it is true or not since I do not have enough info to make that judgement. With that said, I take issue with those that say that if it is true it is no different than the payola that happens all the time in this country with business recruiting college and pre-college potential employees.
Snce these people work for a Gov't agency (or will once degree is obtained), it is not the same as say Microsoft giving a potential employee a Mercedes if they will sign-on before graduation. The gillnetters association paying for a potential fisheries dept. employees education would be would be no different than the mob putting a prospective DA or Judge through school, and if it came to light we all know what the outcome of that would be.
More than scholarships, I would be interested to know if the gillnetters send decision makers on vacation trips or "sponsor" seminar trips etc.
That would be the same as a bribe in my book, but THAT goes on in Gov't all the time......

MC

MasterCaster

I couldn't have said it better myself!

Slug and others … If I am smoking something….

Why do you some of you think that these well known people approached me? Why do some of you think that I told you that I was only the messenger?

It sure seems strange to me that both Jerry and Bob allowed a thread to be held at the top of this board for weeks concerning the unfair distribution of spring chinook that was now being proposed by the Columbia River Fish Managers to the commissioners. Some of you are probably still scratching our heads and can't understand why these "fish managers" are doing it! Did you guys read what the fish managers are proposing? I can't remember the name of that thread, but it was just removed recently (what was it Jerry?)

Just for the sake of debate; do any of you really think that this particular person(s) who may be involved in this is really going to tell you or me that it was the gill netters who paid fort there college degrees? Maybe some of those "degrees" were even gotten while they were employees of the state! Since neither party are governmental or are public agencies, your not going to get that information through doing any public information act (PDA) request. Getting that information from them would be like spitting into the wind!

I suppose one of the reasons why I was asked to bring this information to people's attention was probably because they knew that I was not going be insulted by some of your replies. It's pretty common when something like this first breaks to criticize the person who is "messenger". That really doesn't bother me much because in this case, I believe that it probably did occur and people need to UNDERSTAND why we continue to allow the gill net fishery on the Columbia River.

People need to know; has this really occurred, or if its just someone pi$$ing in the wind and making a bunch of unfounded accusations. Someone needs to start the ball rolling on this issue, and I guess I was apparently chosen to be the one. Am I being used? Maybe!

Do I believe that this is possibly one of the reasons why certain fish managers continue to favor the gill net fishery on the Columbia? You bet I do! Why do you think people like Salmo G has bad-mouthed the Region 5 mangers so many times on this board about there outdated and unnecessary need to continue to have a gill net fishery on the Columbia River? He is not against using gill nets where gill netting makes sense. Can any of you critics explain that one? Is Salmo wrong too?

Before people can fight an issue, they must first fully understand what they are fighting, and what they are up against. If these allegations are true, it's just one more piece of and unsolved puzzle that now begins to fit into place, and brings together the "bigger picture" of why we are still allowing a gill net fishery to continue on the Columbia. WE all known that economically, the gill netters can not possibly compete with what the sport fishing industry now brings into our states economy, so why are the scales still being allowed to be tilted so far over to left to the gill netter side? WE all known that the "tangle nets" were a huge failure, and they killed large numbers of listed and endanger steelhead, but yet the gill net fishery still goes on and on.

Don't you ever ask yourself why?

Like I said, I do not known if this information is 100% fact or not, but looking at the above facts, one can certainly come to such conclusions! I got the impression from talking to these people that there is more to come, and that this information was just the first of something bigger and better. What that may be is only known to them. But if nothing else happens, I would think that these people will now know, that we know, and just maybe they will think a little deeper and harder about how they are giving favor to a dieing way of harvesting fish on the Columbia River.

Silver Hilton

What you have said about asking people for information sounds really good in a "perfect world". The facts are; we do not live in a perfect world, nor will people freely give or tell you what you want to know about there lives or their personal finances. I can give you no better example than when I wrote a thread not to long ago (Find out what state employees make-WDFW) that gave out a " web site" location that slowed what our state employees were making. Even though this "information" was all "public" information by law, some people were outraged and offended that WE (the public) could be allowed to know what WE were paying each individual person! Some of the people that were outraged, were not even state employees! There were so many complaints, that the website location was even pulled from the thread!

Now can you even imagine what those employees who may be in question would say if they were to be ASKED; WHO funded your education, and exactly HOW MUCH FUNDING did they give to you? Maybe you ought to go back and reread some of the anger that was expressed and said over just knowing "what each individual state employee" had made!

Now do you still think that they would freely give out the information that you have suggested to ask them for? I am also just as sure that these people who may have been funded by the gill netters never-ever talked or discussed how that funding was to be repaid back either!

Like I said, Silver, I am not saying that this information is true or 100% factual. I am only the messenger on this issue, and I believe that more is being developed by the same people who approached me on this issue as I write! I am pretty sure that there is a lot more going on then what I was told, and only time will tell

What was that famous old movie called….was it…. the Devil and Mr. Jones?

PS; Mirco, the gill netters took you off there list a long time ago...I think your about 3 pages behind me!

Well, maybe not off all of their lists!


Cowlitzfisherman

Aunty

You need to get over your anger and stop trying to put me down! You need to slow down and THINK before you continue to make your personal attacks

EXAMPLE: you said;
Where did I say ANYTHING about the "board" that you are referring too?

All I said was
Who cares what you did or said on some other fishing board? Why are you bringing up an issue that was done or side on some other board

You need to come out of the past and keep your personal feeling to our own private emails!

Don't you think that just maybe your the one that needs to "GET OVER IT" lady


Cowlitzfisherman

Aunty

You say;
Why don't you tell this board …. the rest of the story Aunty? Wasn't that the one where one of your friends made a personal attack on the "really big one"?

Like I told you before, you can call some one a "pal", or a 'friend", or you can call them "Rude"! Or you can call it what it really is….the truth!

Now would you please take it to OUR personal emails if you want to continue to rant on about what has happen to your friends on some other board?

I see no point in having Jerry pulling this thread, just because you want to get into another ***** ** match again! mail me at cpr-fish@toledotel.com


Cowlitzfisherman

For the sake of argument, let's say what CFM is reporting is true. So what? State fishery policy is made by a whole cast of characters including the Commission, the Director, Regional Directors, etc. If any of these folks promote a particular policy position regarding fishery management objectives, they need to base it on sound fishery management principles, not some percieved "quid pro quo" for providing educational assistance X number of years ago.

Now, if a user group is currently providing financial gain to the policy folks with the intent of influencing policy decisions, that's a different story. That's sometimes called bribery. Except in Washington DC where they call it "free speech". But I won't go there.........

I would argue that providing educational assistance to young students is a great idea. If that assistance influences their thinking when reach the policy level, so be it. That's to be expected. But after spending seven years in college, I can tell you that anyone who graduates with a BS/MS/PhD has the ability to think for themselves. That's the point of getting an education. Most graduates would resent having some user group tell them how to think, even if said user group helped them through school.

Lastly, as someone else mentioned, the forest products industry funds a whole lot of young forestry students at places like Oregon State, UW, ESF - Syracuse, Michigan State, and other notable forestry schools. Funding fishery students is no different.

Let's get back to fishing.......

Cohoangler

A lot of what you have just said makes a lot of sense!
But. . . . . . . .

Since you are a fishery biologist, and your from the Vancouver area, I would ask you to think about what you have just said;
Your statement couldn't make the point of this thread any more clearer!

Can you possibly explain how then WDFW can continue to allow the indiscriminate taking of unintended species, such as wild and endangered steelhead and salmon, through the use of an indiscriminate gill net fishery on the Columbia River? How is this fishery being govern by the use of "sound fishery management principles"?

You say; Where they got there degrees is not relevant! Funding through grants is one thing, but at this time I have not been told who, how, or even if they did receive funds; or what deals may have been made. I would imagine that all of those questions will be forthcoming. Maybe someone already knows those answers and is just waiting to pay their cards when the time ripe

Like I have said earlier, I was only the messenger, so I too will also have to wait to see what happens!


Cowlitzfisherman

This seems to be veering a little off the topic here ... I said I wasn't going to stand for much of that and lo and behold, one gets put to bed