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#228046 - 01/15/04 07:03 PM blackmouth spoons
Slimebucket Offline
Parr

Registered: 10/19/03
Posts: 59
Loc: Auburn,Wa
Are coyote spoons and coho killers both good for blackmouth? What is the color "cop car".Do you want to use a heavy leader when you are trolling these spoons or would that hamper the action. Just wondering, since the steelhad season is worthless, I might as well start learning how to fish for BM's and have a beer with my buddy.

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#228047 - 01/15/04 08:05 PM Re: blackmouth spoons
cast and blast Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 06/20/03
Posts: 304
Loc: Edmonds
yes,b/w,yes

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#228048 - 01/15/04 08:41 PM Re: blackmouth spoons
rcl187 Offline
Juvenille at Sea

Registered: 03/07/01
Posts: 122
Loc: Sedro-Woolley, Wa
Spoons = good. I've pretty much stuck with 3 spoons for all my salmon trolling (if that's what I'm doing). Either a double glow or water-melon coho killer (fish shaped). I also make sure that at LEAST one person is running a 4" cop car behind a 24" leader (25lb) and an 8" flasher. The key is the small flasher. It doesn't matter if your fishing for BM, pinks, coho or fall kings make sure you have the small flasher and cop car. We fished 4-5 days a week in the north sound when it's opened and the fish checker said we were the most consistent boat he's seen. The 4" cop car is also nice because it catches everything and is big enough to keep the small shakers off.
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#228049 - 01/15/04 09:52 PM Re: blackmouth spoons
chaser Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 410
Loc: marysville,wa
\:\) Leave the beer at home, fishing is serious business! \:D I usually use the coho killers as a search setup and 3 1/2" coyotes or 4" plugs if I know fish are around Also unless you are marking all the bait up in the water column stay right on the bottom with your gear. ;\)

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#228050 - 01/15/04 10:28 PM Re: blackmouth spoons
Sky-Guy Offline
The Tide is Changing

Registered: 08/31/00
Posts: 6673
Loc: Woodinmilf
Listen to that Chaser guy, he knows his 5hit up here in the north end, except for that beer comment!

I like to use 30-40# Ultragreen or Chameleon for my spoon and hoochie leaders. When the flasher or dodger dodges or flashes \:D , The heavier line whips the spoon or hoochie around with better action. Also, these fish are not going to see your leader, so go heavy so you dont loose a fish to a hard strike or a teeth raking across a lighter line.
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#228051 - 01/15/04 11:13 PM Re: blackmouth spoons
seastrike Offline
Hey Man....It's cool...

Registered: 08/18/02
Posts: 4309
Loc: seattle
I have had lots of luck with a 3.5 inch Coyote in funky chicken with no flasher. I know it doesn't sound right but it works. I had a few days BM fishing at PNP where I didn't see any other fish caught and I limited the boat.

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#228052 - 01/15/04 11:15 PM Re: blackmouth spoons
MetalheadRon Offline
Juvenille at Sea

Registered: 12/07/03
Posts: 179
Loc: Shelton Wa.
I've done well with the wonderbread also.
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#228053 - 01/16/04 05:25 AM Re: blackmouth spoons
grandpa2 Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 06/04/03
Posts: 1796
Loc: Brier, Washington
The combination of the Army Truck Coyote in the mini-size (3.5") which is sometimes hard to find and an 11" Hot Spot Army Truck flasher with 48" of leader (Izorline or Jinkai 50# test) or so seems to work really well for blackmouth. I found my last one of these hard to find spoons at 3Rivers Marine and Tackle in Woodinville.
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#228054 - 01/16/04 06:18 AM Re: blackmouth spoons
Hoghunter Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 02/06/03
Posts: 463
SB - the cop car is a black and white spoon. Yes it's very effective but it's not the only spoon that will catch fish. Coyote's aren't the only spoon that will catch fish either. I have a variety of spoons in my tackle box and use them all. I think the best rule of thumb is to always make sure you and your buddy aren't fishing the same thing and change up if you aren't getting action. I have seen days where a cop car was killer and the very next day it wouldn't touch a fish and a green/chrome spoon would be killer. If the fish are thick and feeding you can get them with just a plain spoon but if not then a flasher will certainlly increase your odds. I always use 30 to 40 lb Maxima Ultragreen for leader. Good luck and remember if your not bouncing bottom occasionally for blackmouth you aren't in their neighborhood.

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#228055 - 01/16/04 06:31 AM Re: blackmouth spoons
Easy Limits Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 05/06/01
Posts: 2991
Loc: Nisqually
The army truck colored 4.0 Coyote behind a white/glow Hot Spot is my b'mouth lure of choice.
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Carl C.

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#228056 - 01/16/04 09:17 AM Re: blackmouth spoons
Downriggin Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 02/28/02
Posts: 1203
Loc: Marine Area 13
You're probably going get 100 different answers... Everyone has different tastes on leader length, leader poundage, spoons, spoon color, etc...

I use 20# year around with spoons. I feel spoon movement is more important from the spoon itself than movement from the flasher. After all, they are tested this way prior to marketing... However, I also use the flasher to make the spoon "stop" (definitely a crippling action) by applying certain bends to the spoon.. A lighter leader is going to apply better action... If you choose to go with a heavier leader, make sure you use a uni-knot (or something that makes a loop) to free the movement...

Small flashers work well when both large and smaller fish are together in an area.. The main reason they were built was not to reduce drag (this is secondary), but rather on the theory of small fish-big fish competing for forage...

My spoon preferences depend on the season, size of bait, size of fish...

Devils Tail
Diamond King
Fishlander
Northern King (Great Sand Lance profile)
Coho Killer
Coyote

Half the fun is experimenting...
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"If you are not scratchin bottom, you ain't fishing deep enough!" -DR

Puget Sound Anglers, Gig Harbor Chapter

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#228057 - 01/16/04 09:36 AM Re: blackmouth spoons
DJFISHS2XS Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 12/19/02
Posts: 279
Loc: Oak Harbor Wa
shorten your leader, use a stiff 30 pound test leader, put the coho killer silver/silver tape on a circle flasher (im not sure what they are colled they have the little fins that make it spin in a circle), put it 5 feet above the bottom and hold on....DJ

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#228058 - 01/16/04 09:50 AM Re: blackmouth spoons
Theking Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 4908
Loc: The right side of the line
Get Charlie Whites video if it is still available.

I use the same line as my mainline for leader and never over 20lbs. Depending what I am using the leaders are 24" to 72" to change the action. I have caught fish trolling to 72lbs and never had a line break ever with a fish on.

All the spoons mentioned above plus a selection of sand lance hootchies from BC.
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#228059 - 01/16/04 11:20 AM Re: blackmouth spoons
DJFISHS2XS Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 12/19/02
Posts: 279
Loc: Oak Harbor Wa
I'm a big presentation nut. the heavy leader I use with both the small spoon and the glow/green hootchy is for presentation...the large circle flasher attached to the short stiff leader makes the lure rotate in a small circle, the ideal distant would get the lure to travel 8 to 12 inches. Depending on what I expect to catch, I like the short set up for BM and longer lighter leader for transiting kings. I like the smaller lure size for BM because the abundence of candle fish in the areas I fish (area 7 and 8-1)

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#228060 - 01/16/04 05:02 PM Re: blackmouth spoons
Slimebucket Offline
Parr

Registered: 10/19/03
Posts: 59
Loc: Auburn,Wa
thanks for all the help guys. I might have to try this out this weekend. Are there any spots worth trying, or are they closed for fishing. I live in Auburn. I heard that pt. Defiance is a non producer right now

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#228061 - 01/16/04 05:20 PM Re: blackmouth spoons
Easy Limits Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 05/06/01
Posts: 2991
Loc: Nisqually
Only MA 10 and 13 are open right now for salmon. MA 11 is not open.

Your best bet mid-Sound would be Elliott Bay, West Pt., and Manchester for blackmouth right now.
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Carl C.

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#228062 - 01/16/04 05:41 PM Re: blackmouth spoons
Slimebucket Offline
Parr

Registered: 10/19/03
Posts: 59
Loc: Auburn,Wa
Thanks again for the info,but here is another question. Do I want to zoom in my Lowrance X-71 Blue to show the bottom 0-40ft. only since I am fishing 10 ft. off the bottom or should I use the full screen so as to look for bait up on top also. I would assume that BM mainly are on the bottom.

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#228063 - 01/16/04 06:12 PM Re: blackmouth spoons
Downriggin Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 02/28/02
Posts: 1203
Loc: Marine Area 13
SB,

Some interesting facts... BM spend 90 percent of their time feeding near the bottom- approximately 60 percent of their diet consists of Sand Lance which commonly travel along the bottom. Sand Lance also burrow in the sand to rest or avoid predation. Additionally, 90 percent of their travel time is spent near the bottom... So it only makes sense to target these ranges. However, there are times when you'll want to fish suspended. When the fish are on the bait suspended, you should consider fishing just below the bait ball. Some of the decision factors you'll want to be cognizant of are: Light, sea state, engine noise, etc.

I rarely fish suspended because once a bait ball is located and the time it takes to bring the gear up, I might have passed the bait! Plus, you'll never know just how big the ball is until you've passed it. So if I am fishing solo, I consider it a waste of time- unless I am marking a lot of fish. Then, I usually throw a boar cushion over the side to mark the ball and work the area until I've hooked up. Furthermore, if the area your are fishing is conducive (i.e. Manchester) to fishing suspended, give it a try.. Keep in mind the above factors. If there are two of you in the boat, it doesn't hurt to give one rod a go and fish the other along the bottom..

As far as setting the sonar, I bounce back and forth if I haven't located bait along the bottom settings..
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"If you are not scratchin bottom, you ain't fishing deep enough!" -DR

Puget Sound Anglers, Gig Harbor Chapter

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#228064 - 01/17/04 01:14 PM Re: blackmouth spoons
chaser Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 09/21/00
Posts: 410
Loc: marysville,wa
\:\) Since I dont own a boar coushion \:D if I spot a promising looking bait ball or hit a fish I hit the man overboard feature on my gps to get me back to the general area and proceed to work the area from all directions. I dont usually bring my gear up off the bottom unless I'm marking bigger fish mixed in with the bait. \:\) When fishing BM I like to look for the telltale wisps of bait just off the bottom which usually indicate a candlefish(sandlance)bed.

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#228065 - 01/17/04 05:40 PM Re: blackmouth spoons
Jaydee Offline
2010 SRC Champion!

Registered: 12/19/03
Posts: 921
Loc: West-Sound
Some good suggestions here, but don't hesitate to bring up your gear in the water column if you are certain that they are chasing bait up high.
Most of your BM fishing in the sound should be done right on the bottom but I've found bait in the top 40 feet of the water with fishy marks on the sonar. When I got the gear just under where I was marking bait, the fishing sometimes can be relatively fast.
Also, my hands down confidence salmon spoon for deep water is a cyotee with a long shank, short beaked SHARP siwash, in a 188 style, (Look for the last three digits in the stock number. Lime green/pearl glow/crome back. I also got a 40+ in the ocean on one in '02.) and with a touch of masking sent in the translucent form.

Go get 'em.
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