Looks like a huge victory in favor of the fish!

Finally, somebody had the balls to look at the state sponsored data, the bigger picture and make a call.

This will not stop me from putting hatchery fish in the freezer and continue to catch and release wild steelhead.

Thanks to all who are working to protect the wild steelhead.

74% on this board should by no means be surprising....

I've seen other polls that told a different story. Using those numbers to represent how the average angler would feel is kind of like asking a room full of peta members if fish feel pain.

This board has a number of people listed as being on the WSC Board of Directors, WSC Vice Presidents and other WSC associates.

So, it would seem this board would provide a higher favorable vote.

Here is another poll that shows nearly the same result!

http://www.gamefishin.com/gfboard/forum_posts.asp?TID=4858&KW=POLL

Interesting post Gutz. I didn't vote in that one as I needed a third choice.

I'm pro-release, but not if hatcheries are shut down and an "either/or" poll is too simplistic.

Anyone who thinks these polls reflect the opinion of the majority of licensed anglers is living in a virtual reality.

I never voted here and actually never voted in the other poll except for adding the following opinion:


"The choice is quite difficult because C&R is a catchword that has many diverse meanings.

Usually when someone says they are for C&R they mean that they subscribe to the idea that killing a fish for food is bad but that it's ok to drag a fish around by a line attached to a hook implanted somewhere in a fishes lip, tongue or eye just for fun and until the fish is exhausted. Once exhausted, the fun is over and the fish is unhooked and let go in hopes that it might recover to be played again someday.

I will vote against C&R because sticking a fish with a hook and dragging it around just for sport does not set well with my conscience. For me it is unethical to wound, maim or kill an animal for the fun of it. I would not do it to a dog, a fish or even a cat.

Others have different ethics and moral values than me so for them it may be ok. I have no problem with what others prefer in this respect and also have no problem with some areas being set aside for this perversion. To each his own.

I do feel that those who would make it illegal for others to catch and eat fish yet advocate killing and maiming them just for fun do so with selfish and malicious motives and will advise them to get professional help."

How do you equate WSR with closing hatcheries?

Do you recall the huge uproar against WT when there was talk of closing hatcheries?

I was going to ask the same question Gutz....

Plunker-

Your thoughts on the killing and maiming of animals are incredibly similar to those of PETA, with the exception of the whole eating meat thing....

...you're not going lefty on us are you??

GutZ, as I've said on another board you need to play chess and have some vision for following moves.

Shutting down hatcheries or limiting hatchery production is about 5 moves down the road.

If a person can't see cause and effect, or what may happen after a certain action... then I'm sorry for that person. But sometimes that lack of vision is refreshing.

Gutz & H20 - Here's some more...


The trend seems unmistakable to me.

Increment by increment, one small step at a time, the holier than thou elitists intend to replace traditional values with their distorted mandates of morality.

The hatchery steelhead, chinook and coho are already marked and distinguished from the wild ones that are considered too valuable for harvest and in the not too distant future for any type of angling.

The current trend is to incrementally outlaw bait, harvest and the coarser angling methods directing us all towards catch and release fishing only. At first we will be allowed to catch and keep hatchery fish only and only by select means. Next, hatcheries will be closed and catch and release only will become the rule and soon thereafter it will become C&R fly-fishing only.

At this point the humanitarians and the defenders of the biosphere and the right of the higher creatures to live free from harassment and mayhem will outlaw fishing of all sorts and our splendid slimers will become museum pieces.

I sure hope that all of the above truly proves to be derisive BS as intended.

Well, I would assume the members of this board who voted in these polls are smarter and more educated about the fisheries then the majority of crackers who buy a license. Glad to see we agree

LOL that's not the right Poll Gutz.

This is the one you were looking for:

http://www.gamefishin.com/gfboard/forum_posts.asp?TID=4870&PN=1

Zen;
Look back into your Crystal Ball and see what the future holds if no action at all was taken.

The runs could become threatened by overfishing, similiar to what you see in so many of our Rivers now. At least this a move in the right direction.

GutZ, I don't like any of the answers I come up with.

Head in the sand approach won't work either, so don't think I favor that one.

Just remember that when habitat and native fish runs were impacted by dams and other governmental actions, the hatcheries were created as "mitigation" to provide fish lost because of these activities.

Actually my choice would be to use 20/20 hindsight and not do certain things that were done in our past.

Here's something more to consider...


The members of Ducks Unlimited and the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation protect ducks and elk so that they will be available for harvest for generations to come. They don't ask that hunting be restricted to animals farmed and planted for put and take hunting. They don't ask that wild pheasants be protected while hunting only the non-wild pheasants.

We all know that animals can be stunned with darts and revived to be stunned again yet hunters, at least to my knowledge, have never promoted S&R (stun and release) hunting or the mandatory release of all wild ducks or elk.

If you agree with hunting for harvest I wonder what, in your mind, causes you to find hunting for harvest acceptable yet sets you against those who would fish for harvest?

With S&R (stun and release) hunting, just as with C&R (catch and release) fishing, the animal or fish will in most instances live to be stunned or hooked again affording considerably more value and opportunity than if it had been intentionally killed and we all know that, considering the costs, no hunter or angler really needs to kill for food.

The hunters in the groups mentioned promote the harvest of the birds and mammals they love and protect even when, in the case of pheasant, non-wild alternatives are available.

So, unless you would prefer to avoid the question, I truly wonder how fish can be any different than birds and mammals in this respect?

Zen

Agreed but unfortunately that does nothing to aid in future endeavors for the fisheries.

Lead thrower,

It does is one does a "lessons learned" and applies said tips to the future.

Plunker-

Hope you didn't take my comments derisively, they weren't meant that way. I was more trying to have some fun with you than make fun of you. I know how passionate you are about retaining wild fish...and as far apart as we are on most things you are like my number two favorite poster here.

Zen-

So....how long before you figure ALL hatcheries are shut down then?

If I understand you correctly the hidden motive of the WDFW in enacting this rule is to begin the process of ending fishing in Washington State? Seems a lil silly to me....

This 'elitist' stuff is a tired, tired argument. Elitist in the sense that we believe a moratorium on steelhead would benefit the depressed fisheries affected?

No more elitist than someone unwilling to admit the potential that they are wrong. In the case of those crying foul on this decision...who would admit that if their position is incorrect the steelhead that so ardently wish to kill are already dead?

The thing that I love most about this whole conversation is that the liberals have the conservative argument and the conservatives have the liberal argument.

...crazy....

Stlhd... I am smart enough to know I'm not right all the time. If I had all the answers I wouldn't be working for someone else like I am now. It would be nice if I was wrong this time.... and to let you know how to "factor" my remarks, I did like the Kennedy conspiracy story.

Take my comments (on hatchery fish) with a grain of salt, and it is what I believe. But, I'm not going to get into an arguement on said beliefs. I picked that bit of "wisdom" up from someone else on this board.

Plunker does kinda grow on you after a while, doesn't he?


I disagree with Plunker on this one.........but at least that way I know everything is right in the world.

Maybe another way to look at WSR is that it's like a contraceptive. You don't always shoot to kill, but you still like to play the game!

Plunker;
You have recommended that some of us seek professional help. Your stun and release concept is truly off the wall. Perhaps you should seek the same. :p

Thanks H2o,

I did expect a comment comparing my viewpoint with PETA but my attitude differs from theirs in that I think its ok to kill those cute little critters for food,

If I were a vegetarian and thought everyone should be just like me, what a world, I would certainly ban all killing and everyone would be forced to take a bath once a year.

Oops... had to edit here.

Gutz - Thanks for the opinion.
I admire the views of those who are prone towards looking off into space.

Its all fine and dandy that most of us agree that releasing wild steelhead is the right thing to do!!! Why don't all of us get together right now and truck our asses over to the Chehalis
river in Aberdeen and try to get the Indians to agree to the same thing while they are netting there 5 days a week until april 15

I don't know guys... I still have some guns... there are still dams on the Snake river, hatcherys are not going away anytime soon..

Its just an observation of mine, but people who like to buy into " conspiracy theorys " are more scary than the people they are afraid of. What do pheasants and elk and whatever have to do with releasing wild fish ??? All these are different issues. In case you were un-aware, there are more elk now than in 1900- about 3 times as many.. can't say the same for fish.

Stun and release !!! thats pretty good !!! A real PETA guy would love to put that on film.

So I see with ducks and such that they have different limits for different kinds and if I remember right after years of being able to kill and eat sandhill cranes they closed that season completely?

Well, option B is to ask them to stop netting wild fish.........even though we won't stop killing them ourselves. That'd probably go over like a turd in a punch bowl.

And ZEn ,there are some board members (I'm one) from the WSC that post on this board but I don't believe we stuffed the ballot box on this issue. You may well be in the minority on this one. THE FISH NEED ALL THE HELP WE CAN GIVE THEM>

Jerry, I know you are one of the VP's under your alter ego name. I wasn't going to mention names.

Also I would agree adults wouldn't stuff ballot boxes. My take was that the thinking of your crowd was slanted towards what the poll indicated. Maybe I said it the wrong way, but I wasn't implying anything. It was an observation.

Now that would be called a super majority. If a political party was to win an election with a percentage like that, members of that party would certainly feel that they were on the right track

Jerry your right "The fish need all the help we an give them"
And ALL the help we could give them would be to close the rivers and quite fishing for them.Including CnR harrasment and mortality.Just think what kinda statement that would be to the tribes.Not the statement the new WSR law makes that sportsman are killing less fish.But the statement that we are killing no fish at all.Now THAT would be a statement.

I smell PETA bread again.

Try 60% Marsha..

On both boards combined, there is a total of 239 votes

99 don't support it
140 do support it

And I would be very surprised if that even came close to the real world. Most of those votes came from this board.

The other board was:

60 votes don't support it
27 votes do support it

I'd say that it shows how devisive this policy really is..

We do alot of weird and cruel things to animals. I grew up a butcher's son but never aquired the knack for chopping off a chicken's head or slamming a huge wooden mallet between a big cow's eyes or slitting it open end to end. I had no problem shooting ducks as long as someone lese cleaned them but have a problem killing a deer even though I have gone along on many hunting trips. I catch and release alot of fish and have never put that in human terms like some tend to do. The old: How would you like it if I hooked you in the mouth and drug you around for a half an hour then pulled the hook out with pliers and tossed you back in the water.

I read somewhere that man had dominion over the birds in the air and the fish in the sea and some sort of stuff like that. I guess I still believe that.

Aunty: You know lots of guys beleive that there are many things women are not good at. Maybe he assumed that math was one of them.

I have no idea what numbers your looking at. The numbers I posted are exact numbers on both boards.

So what does it mean that the poll is diff on this board than the one on gamefish?

your right dan s i totally agree with you. i did not mean to seem so harsh, it is just that i drove by the chehalis a couple of days ago and seen the nets in and it just frustrated the hell out of me. Like i said before in a pevious topic, it seems to me that the sportsman are making better effort at this issue of wild steelhead than the tribes ,but hey i may be wrong . Do you think that the quinault tribe has their nets in 5 days a week until april 15 to try to harvest the major part of the hatchery runs of the tributaries of the chehalis? Yeah thats what i thought

Steve,
Yes the polls are differant on the two sites.It looks like the people at GF see this new rule for what it really is.

Who cares what fishermen want.. the question is how can we maintain quality fisheries and protect wild steelhead runs...

here is a hint you cannot save a fish by killing it with a stick on the head..
Catch and release fisheries allow there to be a fishery when harvest will wipe a fishery out as IS currently happening with wild steelhead in Washington state

So is this turning into a battle of the boards?

No it's not Steve. Many members are members of both boards. For the most part even in disagreements we respect each other.

That's a good thing,, Both boards are full of good people

biglar,

I hear you man. I can hardly drive around there because I get so wound up seeing those nets in there this time of year.

They have to know it's just wrong to be netting so late in the season, especially when the GH tribs are hurting like they are.

I drive by the Chehalis "netting grounds" between Lakeside and the mouth of the Wishkah daily. I have been pleasantly surprised to see few netters exercsing their rights to 5 days/week fishing. Maybe I am just driving by too early in the morning?

On the other hand, I was a little disappointed to see "wild steelhead" fillets on display at my favorite lunch hangout on the banks of the Wishkah. Didn't ask the owner about it, but I wonder how many of those fish this time of year are clipped. I imagine most of them really are wild.

Plunker,
Although it would be nice to live in a world where there were unlimited resources and we could dream about harvesting wild fish, those days are gone. We've got to save what we have left. If everybody who hooked a fish had the same conviction that you've demonstrated, there wouldn't be any fish left.

If it's meat you're looking for, why not head to the nearest market?

Ok - I'm expanding my viewpoint and actually beginning to see the positive side of this moratorium.

At first I was really bummed out by the ban and how the WSC influenced the Commission to violate the public trust by misleading us into thinking that our harvest rights were not on the block.

For me, the change had little consequence other than removing hope that someday in the future the Skagit might open for harvest of something besides bull trout.

It has a nice run of springers but we can't fish for them.
It has a nice run of sockeye but we can't fish for them.
It has a nice run of summer kings but we can't fish for them.
It has a nice run of humpies but we can only fish for them sometimes.
It has a nice run of silvers but we can only fish for them sometimes.
It has a nice run of steelhead but we can't fish for them.

We can catch bull trout, cutthroat (for now), chum and on some good years pinks and coho. It's hardly a year round fishery these days and it affords less and less opportunity every year.

I've thought about not buying another license for many years now when I see the yearly pruning of openings and especially when I buy my license after reading the regs to see how much fishing will be open and then some of that gets taken away after the purchase.

So, the way I see it is they did me a real favor. The money I would have spent on licenses, bait, gear and travel is more than enough to finance an annual 2-3 day guided trip to the Quinault for some fishing fun without a license. Add a trip or two to Canada, which is just an hours drive, plus an excuse to do some deep sea fishing, also without a license, and I can catch all the smelt I want for free.

That's not to mention all the cash I'll be saving by buying most of my fresh salmon from the tribal fishermen who are always willing to give it away for less than a dollar a pound.

So I'd like to thank everyone who worked so hard for this moratorium. You have given me a lot of free time saved me some money and assured me of being able to obtain the freshest tribal caught fish year round.

There will be no more whitefish and bull trout for me during the winter months. I'll be eating nice fat wild steelhead instead and at less than a buck a pound I'll be sure to can some for making salads and sandwiches off season.

Plunker: The new C&R rules essentially give you two choices: continue to fish while releasing wild fish, or stop fishing. You choose the latter. Apparently killing a fish is more important to you than having an opportunity to enjoy fishing. If your only pleasure in fishing is in the kill you have made the right choice. While I do not understand your way of thinking I do wish you luck in whatever you do.

Your signature seems to say it all for you. Wild fish are just meat.

He's already explained to us how playing a wild fish and releasing it is morally reprehensible in his book.

To catch a fish and put it back is not a consideration for Plunker.

I think I smell patchouli.....

Perfect...I'll take two!!

Rob Allen said: Who cares what fishermen want.. the question is how can we maintain quality fisheries and protect wild steelhead runs...

When a politician says "who cares what the voters want", everybody screams and that person gets booted out of office when his term is up.

When Rob Allen makes a similar statement... isn't it about the same for arrogance... You really think you know better than everybody else?

Come on....Rob has always spoken his mind..He is a "my way or the highway kind of guy"..You GO Rob