Dear Fellow Anglers,

I am a member of the WDFW's Anadromous and Marine Resources Sportfishing Advisory Group. The group includes anglers such as myself (you've probably seen my reports on washingtonlakes.com before) along with some charter captains, resort operators and club or group representatives. The Department uses us as a method to gain additional "customer" input and provide another vehicle for communicating info as well.

In a recent meeting, several of the coastal charter folks asked about the possibility of having non-selective fisheries on the coast and Columbia. They claim that mark rates are going down and their customers don't like having to throw lots of nice fish back in hopes of getting a keeper. In this day-and-age of ESA and depressed runs, the Department must manage the fisheries to minimize impacts on threatened runs. Therefore, a non-selective (keep any coho) fishery would have to be shorter than a selective fishery to keep the impacts the same. I'm sorry that I can't give more details on how much shorter the season would be. That would come out of modelling by the Department.

The question for us sport-fishing types is: Would you prefer a shorter season on the coast and Columbia where you could keep any coho or would you prefer a selective coho fishery (clipped only) that was more like last year in season length. Please provide feedback here in the forum. I will sum up the general opinion and take that back to the Group. I'm kind of a newbie to the forums, but I will try to interact as needed. Thanks!

Tom Drews

Tom.... I like the longer seasons so I'd go for selective, just like last year.

Hi Tom,

I appreciate the opportunity to have some input. Thanks for taking the time to post the question.

>>The question for us sport-fishing types is: Would you prefer a shorter season on the coast and Columbia where you could keep any coho or would you prefer a selective coho fishery (clipped only) that was more like last year in season length.<<

I love to fish, Tom. If that means tossing back a few that is not an issue...it is the time fishing that is most important.

For many of us fishing is more than just a "bag limit", it is an entire experience made up of a multitude of factors....only one of which would be taking something home for the broiler.

So, I would prefer the longer season with the release of non-qualifying fish. I'm more than happy to send a wild fish back to the waters once I've hooked and met him face-to-face...and if by chance a hatchery fish gets bonked that's Ok too.

My 2 cents.

Mike B

I have no problem with, and prefer, the selective fisheries.

Selective fishery and longer season.

Does this suggestion have anything thing to do with the new rule that you can't take a wild salmon or steelhead out of the water?

I don't know all the rules about ocean fishing, so I am not sure if that rule applies to the area that these charter boats fish. It would appear to me that the charter boats people are worried about how they must deal with this new rule. I may be wrong, so can you answer this question?

Since descaling occurs more in salt then in fresh, it would appear to me that people are concerned that they will be required to do the same in salt as they are in fresh to protect endanger wild fish.

It seems to me, that most saltwater commercial and ocean going boats are very high sided because of how they are made to deal with the conditions they are used in. I would think that it would also mean that you would have cut off everyone's leader to release a wild fish when your 4 or 5 feet above the water surface. That could mean that you would have lots of wild fish swimming around with 4 or 5 feet of mono hang behind them.


Got any answer?


Cowlitzfisherman

Selective.

Longer season, selective. From what I've heard some of the charters aren't interested in getting you a nice fish, they will bonk all keepers, including small fish, until the boat limits are met. Just seems to be a way to keep fuel costs down and get back to the dock sooner. As far as releasing the wild fish, they should use a long handled dehooking device, or if the bait is taken deep, a long handled stick with a knife on the end to cut the leader. Everybody (including charters) needs to take an approach that is best for the fish, not what is easiest.

Longer season. I have no issue with having to properly release fish.

longer season for me too.

Selective fishery with a longer season. I think its a blast to C&R 7 or 8 fish to get to the keepers. If you went non-selective your day could be over before your breakfast settles!!
Good luck and tight lines, Jeff

No doubt about it, longer season, and a selective fishery, isn't this why we pushed for mass markings anyway. If the high sided charters and others can't take the fish out of the water make em invent a dehooking device that can reach or cut the line.

Steve

Longer Selective Fishery.

CFM;
You can not bring the fish inboard in Marine areas 5 - 13, not over the side of the boat.

Tom D.,

This one seems like a no-brainer to me...keep the hatchery fish, release the wild ones, longer seasons, fish to take home, more wild ones on the spawning beds.

It's exactly the same as the wild steelhead release regulation...and I'd support the longer seasons and more opportunity for sportfishers all the way.

Fish on...

Todd

Definately selective for me too... We've got to do our best to protect the runs of wild fish...

If you want wild fish just buy it from the commercial netters in the columbia...

I think that the limit is the first two coho caught regardless of wild or hatchery. No throw-backs, no upgrades to larger fish. When you catch 20-30 coho a day and have to release most of them to get a fin-clipped, there is going to be some mortality. I would be willing to bet that mortality is greater than just keeping the first two fish caught.

The longer the better (isn't that what they all say) ! My wife and I had no problems the last 3 years getting limits on BIG hatchery silvers the last 3 seasons at Astoria. We fished on average 10 days a year there (last weekend in August through the 2nd or 3rd weekend of Sept), and our wild % is maybe 15% of landed Coho. No problems for us, we love to catch lots of fish!!!!

imo, any charter operator or resort owner would be cutting off their own hand by pushing for shorter seasons. selective fishing has increased fishing opportunity in the saltwater. we have seen long seasons become the rule since selective fisheries have been implemented and that is a positive.

instead of pushing for non-selective fisheries, let's push for more marking. when wild stocks make a comeback and can take higher harvest levels, then this issue can be dealt with... but i think we've got a good thing going right now.

longer seasons are better for the economy of coastal areas.... my position is the same regardless of whether we are talking salmon, halibut, bottomfish, etc.

btw, my understanding is "sparkey's law" is not in effect in marine areas 1-4.

chris

No question, Selective!!!

Gotta go with longer seasons and selective fishery. It's the way to go, it also allowed us to fish for Chinook in Area 5 last year.

Kev

Tom D. - There's a better way to collect this information from BB members: Do a poll.

This is a feature on this BB that alllows you to set up a series of questions and allow members to vote. Your sample size will increase considerably. Plus, it automatically compiles the data, so it's easy to see the results and report them to your group. If you need help, just ask. I could do it for you but it's really easy. Check it out.

Whay would they, the charters, want that? It would mean less money for them bacuse it would be a shorter season which means less trips for the charters.

I believe that the selective fishery for coho from charter boats and larger boats offshore includes too much handling mortality. I think it is a horrible waste to kill fish by netting them and then removing hooks. This seems to be the ongoing practice from larger boats that cannot reach the water. We have a smaller boat, so I can unhook them with the fish still partially in the water. Even with the changes in the regulations, I still think that handling mortality is high.

Many fishermen would defend the ability to release fish safely, but my experience is that the mortality on coho is probably high, judging by the number of floaters observed in fishing areas and watching the handling practices at places such as Neah Bay and Sekui. I rarely fish coho in those places anymore because I feel like catching 10 or 15 fish and hurting a great number of them to keep 2 isn't what my goal is.

I would support a shorter season allowing for keeping wild fish that would have been killed and then released. I think for saltwater salmon fishing, that such a a fishery makes more sense, is less wasteful, and is easier to manage.

Sea Clare, the ocean charterboats never net fish to be released -- none that I've seen anyway. Typically they use a gaff as a hookout, just like many of us use a brass cup hanger hook on a dowel to release fish without ever touching them. They grab the leader and lift, hook onto the barbless hook and pull up while pulling the leader down. The fish slides right off. They've been releasing that way for at least 35 years -- very effective and I think minimal mortality. I say go with the longer selective season in every case.

Selctive for me as well.

Definitely a longer season, but I too am concerned by the fact that so many people have no idea how to properly release a fish. What can we do to educate them?

love time on the water.....selective for me

Definitely a longer, selective season but there is a major question addressed in the original post that everyone is ignoring........the comment was made that the charters are seeing increased numbers of unmarked fish.

I'm not sure this is a random observation as as the catch sample within the charter industry is quite large......therefore somewhat indicative of what's swimming in the ocean.

Is WDFW not marking 100% of hatchery coho? They should be by now. (according to the target time frame I read about a few years ago) Or, is clipped hatchery fish mortality seeing a sudden jump that's not showing in the wild fish?

Personally, it does seem like we had to wade through a few more wild fish to get keepers on the ocean last summer(westport) but we also usually ended up with our keepers too so they are out there.......the question is in what numbers and why?

the increasing numbers of oregon coast natural wild coho may have something to do with it. from my understanding, the mark rate will never get to 100% (need to make sure hatcheries get back fish to spawn, so some will not be clipped). further north, the mark rate is worse because of good numbers of wild coho and a lower mark rate inside puget sound (especially tribal hatcheries). the mark rate south (westport, ilwaco) should be good due to the fact that the the columbia has the highest % of clipped coho. i'd like to hear how it is this upcoming season to see if last year's mark rate down south was an anomoly or becoming the norm.

after major shutdowns and short seasons in the saltwater during the 90's... it's almost amusing that there are complaints of catching too many fish <G>.

i think any new regulation (selective, wsr, etc.) takes some time for everyone to get adjusted to it. like wild steelhead release will take some time to be accepted, the saltwater selective fisheries are slowly becoming more accepted.... and imo now is not the time to reverse course. let's not forget that if we drop the selective requirement for the sports fleet, how long do you think it will be before the commercial trollers want out of selective coho fishing?

chris

Last year I jumped on a salmon charter out of Ilwaco in between tuna trips. I witnessed every fish brought to the side of the boat netted and if it was unclipped the net would be inverted and shaken until either the leader broke or the hook ripped out ( which was the case on most of the fish). On inquiring about the practice I found out that it is perfectly legal for charters in that area. Dont know the rational behind this rule but I know I did not feel very comfortable watching the way these "wild" fish were being handled. I ended up keeping every fish I hooked out of netting range untill I could see if it was an unclipped fish. If it was, a little slack in the line was all it took to get it off. Selective fishery and NO NETTING of unclipped fish!

chaser

Thanks for being so honest!
I have never fished those areas, but I do know what goes on in the seas!

I used to fish commercially in California, and I too understand the game. That's why I had posted what I had earlier on this threaded. Most commercial boats make it pretty hard, if not imposible to gently release fish.

Cowlitzfisherman

Longer, selective season.

They need to quit screwing around and buy enough equipment to clip 100% of the hatchery fish!!!

It's a no brainer, really....

Without a doubt, selective. 90% of the fun is catching anyways.

~steelymann~

Chaser, wow, that's horrible if a charter was releasing fish that way. I've been on Ilwaco charterboats twice, a Neah Bay charterboat once and Westport charterboats many times and have never seen anything like that. All I can say is that those guys are ignorant, have no regard for the resource and and certainly aren't representative of the charterboat industry.

Chaser,
I had a similar experience in Westport last summer. This was my first time out in a big mooching charter boat in the ocean.

If a fish got within range of the long handled net, it was brought abourd, dumped on deck and then thrown back if it was wild. And then there were they "partially clipped fish" that definately did not meet the definition of clipped per the regs, but were kept anyway with the explanation that it was a hatchery fish that's adipose fin just got partially clipped

Chaser,
I had a similar experience in Westport last summer. This was my first time out in a big mooching charter boat in the ocean.

If a fish got within range of the long handled net, it was brought abourd, dumped on deck and then thrown back if it was wild. And then there were they "partially clipped fish" that definitely did not meet the definition of clipped per the regs, but were kept anyway with the explanation that it was a hatchery fish that's adipose fin just got partially clipped

I felt weird about the whole thing and don't think I'll go back. Maybe try Neah Bay next time.

I support a selective fishery,
but like everyone on this board, don't like to see wild fish mishandled due the pressure of the mighty american tourist dollar aboard the charter boats.

Definitely selective...it would really have affected the quality of the fishery if we could have kept everything we brought to the boat...It would have gone from three hours to 45 minutes....
I observed that even with the keep the fish in the water rule, there is no shortage of crackers that flop the fish around like they're choking their chicken.....

No doubt about it... selective all the way. BUT with one caveat:

Better handling practices. Circle hooks to minimize the risk of gut- or gill-hooking natives. No netting natives. Long de-hooker as described by AK Kings.

Without these measures, selective fishing for salmon in the ocean is a total joke.

One Westport trip, our charterboat put over 100 fish in the boat to put a limit of 40 hatchery silvers in the box. A conservative estimate on the release mortality on those wild fish was 80%-plus. Many were pumping clouds of blood as they were being fought. Most lost over half their slime and scales before release. Some may have swum off with apparent vigor, but because of overwhelming infection down the road, damned few of them would survive to see river gravel to spawn. That's the sad reality of what I have witnessed time and again. With that kind of mortality, fewer wild fish would have perished had the boat just kept the first two caught regardless of fin status.

FishN--

So, I agree with you in theory, but wonder with the realities that many do NOT handle fish well: What would be better for good fish management and long term protection of the fish stocks?

While in theory I think clipped fish retention is smart, my experiences on the water tell me that there is excessive mortality. I think your numbers are accurate-- 80% probably seems about right from some of the boats. Despite our attempts to be conscious about it, I bet that some days we kill 40-50% of the coho. We only use spoons, but it seems like some days are just like that.

What I want for my fishing experience this year (longer season, more opportunity) may not be best for the long term fishery management and wise use of resources over time.

One thing I've learned in environmental management is don't go with options that are theoretically better if in practice they cannot be effectively implemented or enforced. In this case, I think the theory of saltwater selective coho retention maybe isn't the best way to go.

Longer, selective season! I don't care for the hook resrictions. Angler education is a must! Release 'em Alive!

Selective for more time on the water however I think it there should be a single hook regulation and make everyone buy fish (scale) friendly landing nets to reduce scale loss and fin ray trauma.

Beezer

I think that single barbless hooks in the salt would be a good idea. Better enforcement would be good too...If some of these guys saw people getting tickets for bad fish handling, they'd wise up fast.. I used those de-hookers and had good success.. A good net that minimizes scale loss should be mandatory...better yet...just dehook in the water... I saw much better compliance with private boaters than charters... The charters need more regulation..can you imagine how loud they would complain if they were gettting ticketed? And finally...how can you teach the average citizen to respect the resource when their only experience might be that?

Thanks very much for the input!

Responding to a couple questions...

The charter boat captains that spoke at the meeting are VERY concerned about their ability to comply with the new handling regulations. Some of them have no feasible way to release a fish without netting it and bringing it on board (for the reasons mentioned earlier - high sides, rough water, etc.). They did not bring the two topics up in a connected way (we don't want selective fisheries because we can't release fish), but that may be in their thought processes. Their stated intent was that their customers don't want to throw lots of nice fish back.

The charters are investigating the rubberized catch-and-release nets and are trying to work with the Department on a compromise.

I also believe that the charters at the meeting understand that there will be more money in their pockets with the longer, selective season.

Thanks again! I'll go back to listen mode.

Yes, i agree. Ive heard that up to 30% of hatchery coho that come up the Columbia are not clipped, that would help mortality rates also. Yes for selective.

I've been on a Westport charter when they had green horn deck hands that bonked unmarked fish brought on board, then "released" to avoid getting ticketed. What an awful sight! Still, I'd rather have longer seasons. We just need to have better releasing skills.

I kind of figured it was!


Cowlitzfisherman