"Now, Bruce, would you support WSR if bait were allowed.or trebles? Turnabout is fair play..ya think?"

I think having a CnR fishery that allows the use of bait or anything more than a single barbless hook is not in the fishes best interest and should not be allowed.

Now a no bait, single barbless hook may not be fly fishing only but it is pretty close.

How Bruce.....now how is it close? Plugs, Pink Worms, Spoons ,Spinners, Jigs ,Corkies and Yarn, I got 'em all w/ barbless hooks, and pullin' plugs is a long, long way from flyfishing, and I do both. Your'e gonna have to do better than that amigo ! :p :p Next you'll tell me the helicopters are back over your house again !
"

Ok you got me

Fly fishing and selective gear/single barbless hooks and no bait are not close and using bait in a CnR fishery might be a good idea.

There....now that wasn't so hard, was it? :p
Bait in a CnR fishery may simply be the type of compromise that is needed to further the goal of increasing wild stocks. Is it the best? Probably not, but sometimes in order to get things accomplished, compromise is required. I will admit, I have used bait, caught steelhead (native) and released them . There, crucify me at your leisure. Nailing a big 'ol fat fish on a fly rod is just as cool as any other method, and I sure enjoy the hell out of it, but I don't think everyone should be forced to have that experience.

"Bait in a CnR fishery may simply be the type of compromise that is needed to further the goal of increasing wild stocks."

Maybe until the next rule setting cycle. Then some groups may decide that a statewide bait ban is needed or a statewide single barbless hook fishery is need. All in the name of conservation of course, after all why in the world would you want to fish for wild steelhead using bait or treble hooks?

It's all a step in the right direction, right?

"and using bait in a CnR fishery might be a good idea." It might as far as making those who 'choose to use' feel they are not 'shut out' (even though they are not), and possibly more likely to
,however grudgingly, support WSR. Politics, as usual pervades all issues.

I wouldn't.......but obviously the 'split' between the 2 camps is detrimental towards what would seem to be common goal. More fish, and more fishing opportunity. Sometimes, when one compromises, it is for the 'common good', even if it is damn hard to swallow. A bait ban wouldn't bother me that much, but it would others, and I respect that. Winning doesn't always mean that one gets ones way..does it? We all have heard many times the 'slippery slope' arguement regarding flyfishing, and it doesn't have any logical basis, it is simply a 'rallying cry' for those opposed to any more regulations onfishing. No more, and no less.
Now here's an idea I have had since the early 80's, and , while I am sure that I will get hammered for it, I'll throw it out anyway. Rotational complete closures of river systems , one or two in each reigion (to spread equally the economic impact) every year to allow systems to 'rebuild' some populations. Sounds silly to most, I am sure, but here is the type of thing that could potentially diffuse some of the animosity between the camps. The biologists would have a better idea than I as to the effectiveness of such a plan, and I ain't no biologist, but some thing, by God, besides what we have had for the past 30 years (my fishing history in this state) is probably needed. I never understood why there was such total opposition to Cnr seasons anyway? With continuing fishing pressure, and a growing poulation, declining fish runs etc, I would think some fishing is better than none, but I am probably wrong (again).
KK

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I would like to re-phrase that so it more accuratley reflects what I think you're really saying.


"I would think fishing for some is better than none"

NOT!!

I my self like the Idea of fly fishing only waters especially if they C&R. I mean were in this state can you catch trophy size trout. The pressure on lakes and ponds that get stocked is just totally outrageous. I went to Blackmans Pond in Snohomish last week and there was like 50 boats, tubes, pontoon rafts out there and the docks were just literally covered with people. I said I am not going to fish that went to Pass Lake on 20 and ther was only like ten people out there it was great. Caught some very nice rainbows about 18 to 22 inchs and some pretty scrappy cutthroat. I wasnt disappointed I had to put them back Fishing doesnt always mean keep the fish to eat if you enjoy then practice catch and release.

No hairlip, that is not what I'm saying. Nobody stops you from fishing except you. Sooooo.......if ya can't kill ya can't fish? Isn't that how we got here? Try reading the posts before that, and note the civilized tone. Try it ....you'll like it. :p

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So am I uncivilized because I eat fish, or becase I dont agree with you? I just want to get it right, so I know how to respond.

Hair, I eat fish too, and I really don't care how you repond, or if you agree with me. I read your posts, and It's not your opinion , it's the style. No offense, and no opinion by me as to that style intended, It just rubs me the wrong way.We are both entitled to our respective 'styles ', nuff said.
KK

That means no Pi$@ing matches. ok?

A statewide mandatory wild steelhead CnR policy will definalty give some people more room to fish stlhd_dreaming.

It is nice having some selected waters set aside for that purpose, I also enjoy the solitude that it creates.....

A statewide mandatory wild steelhead CnR policy will definalty give some people more room to fish stlhd_dreaming.
Bruce.....you and I both know, that WSR does not restrict one's opportunity to fish, just to kill. I like the 'style' of your point though !
Subtle, measured, and it takes just a bit of thought to really see how the quote could be used :p It's just like the 'Selective Fishing' regs, no one is prohibited, and all are subject to the regulations. And no mention of (gasp!!) flyfishng........I have to go now, I am going flyfishing for some planter trout in a local year 'round lake. If I catch a decent sized one, and it's not too soft from the hatchery food, or a holdover, I'm a gonna bonk it and fry it in bacon grease. probably drink some beer too.
KK

"Bruce.....you and I both know, that WSR does not restrict one's opportunity to fish, just to kill."

Of course it doesn't but there's no denying that this type of regulation usually results in less Angler participation, just like stlhd_dreaming pointed out.

I guess it boils down to what your perception of opportunity is.

what about selective gear rules? surely that can't be worse than flyfishing

Quote by Bruce

“Of course it doesn't but there's no denying that this type of regulation usually results in less Angler participation, just like stlhd_dreaming pointed out.”


Bruce: I do not have to agree that C&R will reduce angler participation. I know that in B.C. where C&R was implemented in the 80's initially pressure did decrease, but as the fish rebounded so to did the pressure. If there is good fishing they will come. Anglers travel from all over the world to experience the type of fishing found on their quality C&R rivers.

The real questions are will C&R improve the fishing. If so the pressure will increase. But as Salma and others have pointed out C&R is not a cure all for habitat degradation, over fishing buy other users and ocean conditions. We do need to address those issues, but all things considered a released steelhead represents another opportunity for someone to catch it again. A dead steelhead is just high cost protein.

Dave I don't believe that a statewide WSR policy will improve our fishing and many examples of WSR being practiced around the state for years now seems to confirm that belief. Therefore I see your point about fishing getting better and increased angler participation being moot and just an attempt to paint a rosey picture.

As for this comment:

"but all things considered a released steelhead represents another opportunity for someone to catch it again. A dead steelhead is just high cost protein."

Once again that is your perception of how others should enjoy or be "allowed" to enjoy the resource and frankly I resent you telling me how I should be allowed to enjoy fishing.

I love fishing especially for trophy fish. I definatly doesnt bother me putting the fish back because I know someone else will have a chance to catch it. I love seeing the look on sombodies face when they catch a trophy size fish. They get all excited like it was the first fish they ever caught. Well SELECTIVE GEAR i dont mind I am not a big bait fisherman. The point with bait though is when a fish hits bait it chances of being inhaled are far better than with a plug or spinner. They implement that so that the survival rate for native fish is increased by a far more percentage than with bait. I dont keep a lot of fish. Caught over 20 steelhead this year I only kept two. I didnt hurt me not to see them on the grill. I would like to see that 14lb steelhead I caught on the wallace last year come back and be 18lb. It all depends on your opinion if you fish for food that is awesome ( I do love the taste of fish am not a tree hugger by far.) if you release the fish that is awesome to because that chrome steelie that is on the end of your line will come back next year even bigger . BUT I will never keep a native steelhead even on the rivers they are open on. To me those are trophy fish and should be kept trophy fish. So I am for this May 1st thing about releasing all native steelhead. Like I said earlier that is my opinion.

Something else I have to mention this is in reference to the better fishing people will come
Yes people will come you will have those people that come and throw there trash all over the place I hate that I take a trash in my backpack and end up picking up trash at the end of my day because people dont respect what has been given us. That hurts the fish also. At C&R places less people less trash. I like less people. I am sure a lot of you guys do to.

"but all things considered a released salmon represents another opportunity for someone to catch it again. A dead salmon is just high cost protein."

"but all things considered a released trout represents another opportunity for someone to catch it again. A dead trout is just high cost protein."

"but all things considered a released sturgeon represents another opportunity for someone to catch it again. A dead sturgeon is just high cost protein."

"but all things considered a released shad represents another opportunity for someone to catch it again. A dead shad is just high cost protein."

Where does it end. You see Dave, you and I see things from a different perpective. The difference is that I don't "expect" people to be forced into seeing it my way like you and some others do. I don't make a "distiction" between a wild steelhead or a wild shad. You choose to hold wild steelhead up on a pedistal and worship it like it is somehow a better fish than a salmon, shad or sturgeon. To me it is a gamefish to be caught and/or harvested or released by sport fisherman. It is a sport and a sport that we all enjoy in one way or another, but if people like you get your way then the rest of us will be forced into enjoying our sport your way and your way only and I don't like the idea of that. I fear that now it is steelhead but tomorrow it will be salmon then it will be sturgeon all in the name of conservation. Well you know what Dave, the simple act of fishing itself is not very conservation like, if you really want to get serious about steelhead conservation then you should just quit fishing for wild steelhead.