#240888 - 04/18/04 07:06 PM
Re: Fly fishing only waters
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River Nutrients
Registered: 11/07/99
Posts: 2691
Loc: Yelmish
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Originally posted by stlhd_dreaming: I my self like the Idea of fly fishing only waters especially if they C&R. I mean were in this state can you catch trophy size trout. The pressure on lakes and ponds that get stocked is just totally outrageous. I went to Blackmans Pond in Snohomish last week and there was like 50 boats, tubes, pontoon rafts out there and the docks were just literally covered with people. I said I am not going to fish that went to Pass Lake on 20 and ther was only like ten people out there it was great. Caught some very nice rainbows about 18 to 22 inchs and some pretty scrappy cutthroat. I wasnt disappointed I had to put them back Fishing doesnt always mean keep the fish to eat if you enjoy then practice catch and release. what about selective gear rules? surely that can't be worse than flyfishing
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#240889 - 04/18/04 07:37 PM
Re: Fly fishing only waters
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Reverend Tarpones
Registered: 10/09/02
Posts: 8587
Loc: West Duvall
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Quote by Bruce
“Of course it doesn't but there's no denying that this type of regulation usually results in less Angler participation, just like stlhd_dreaming pointed out.”
Bruce: I do not have to agree that C&R will reduce angler participation. I know that in B.C. where C&R was implemented in the 80's initially pressure did decrease, but as the fish rebounded so to did the pressure. If there is good fishing they will come. Anglers travel from all over the world to experience the type of fishing found on their quality C&R rivers.
The real questions are will C&R improve the fishing. If so the pressure will increase. But as Salma and others have pointed out C&R is not a cure all for habitat degradation, over fishing buy other users and ocean conditions. We do need to address those issues, but all things considered a released steelhead represents another opportunity for someone to catch it again. A dead steelhead is just high cost protein.
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No huevos no pollo.
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#240891 - 04/18/04 08:05 PM
Re: Fly fishing only waters
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Returning Adult
Registered: 04/07/04
Posts: 401
Loc: maine
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I love fishing especially for trophy fish. I definatly doesnt bother me putting the fish back because I know someone else will have a chance to catch it. I love seeing the look on sombodies face when they catch a trophy size fish. They get all excited like it was the first fish they ever caught. Well SELECTIVE GEAR i dont mind I am not a big bait fisherman. The point with bait though is when a fish hits bait it chances of being inhaled are far better than with a plug or spinner. They implement that so that the survival rate for native fish is increased by a far more percentage than with bait. I dont keep a lot of fish. Caught over 20 steelhead this year I only kept two. I didnt hurt me not to see them on the grill. I would like to see that 14lb steelhead I caught on the wallace last year come back and be 18lb. It all depends on your opinion if you fish for food that is awesome ( I do love the taste of fish am not a tree hugger by far.) if you release the fish that is awesome to because that chrome steelie that is on the end of your line will come back next year even bigger . BUT I will never keep a native steelhead even on the rivers they are open on. To me those are trophy fish and should be kept trophy fish. So I am for this May 1st thing about releasing all native steelhead. Like I said earlier that is my opinion.
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Just remember that people are giving there lives over seas when you start bickering about a photo of a fish out of water !!!!!!
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#240892 - 04/18/04 08:14 PM
Re: Fly fishing only waters
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Returning Adult
Registered: 04/07/04
Posts: 401
Loc: maine
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Something else I have to mention this is in reference to the better fishing people will come Yes people will come you will have those people that come and throw there trash all over the place I hate that I take a trash in my backpack and end up picking up trash at the end of my day because people dont respect what has been given us. That hurts the fish also. At C&R places less people less trash. I like less people. I am sure a lot of you guys do to.
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Just remember that people are giving there lives over seas when you start bickering about a photo of a fish out of water !!!!!!
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#240894 - 04/18/04 08:50 PM
Re: Fly fishing only waters
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Reverend Tarpones
Registered: 10/09/02
Posts: 8587
Loc: West Duvall
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Where does it end.
The difference is that I don't "expect" people to be forced into seeing it my way like you and some others do.
I don't make a "distiction" between a wild steelhead or a wild shad. . [/QB]
Bruce: As to where does it end, that is clear. In B.C. and other regions wild steelhead release ended right there. I see no reason to expect any attempt to force C&R on anyone IF the target species can stand harvest. We already have no harvest on some depressed salmon stocks. That will, I believe, end when those stock rebound sufficiently to allow harvest. I do not make any attempt to force you to believe anything. That would obviously be futile. You will continue to believe in the harvest of wild steelhead. But your passion does not force me to see it your way either. Also please do not accuse me of forcing this down your throat. While I agree with the commissioners I was not at all active in this. I should have been, but I was not. The commission voted and you must now live with that. Until such time as you and others who believe as you do can get the rules overturned. If you can see no difference between a wild shad and a wild steelhead, we simply are too far apart in our views to have any chance of a reasoned debate. I have no more to say.
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No huevos no pollo.
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#240896 - 04/18/04 11:17 PM
Re: Fly fishing only waters
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It all boils down to this - I'm right, everyone else is wrong, and anyone who disputes this is clearly a dumbfuck.
Registered: 03/07/99
Posts: 17149
Loc: SE Olympia, WA
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I don't believe that a statewide WSR policy will improve our fishing and many examples of WSR being practiced around the state for years now seems to confirm that belief. Gee, Bruce.......that's not very scientific though is it? Has WSR been implemented on rivers where all the other steelhead-recovery obstacles have already been fixed. Then how can their continued depression be blamed on WSR being a failure? I just don't get how you can draw that conclusion. Maybe without WSR regs the runs would be extinct and not depressed? Shad?
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She was standin' alone over by the juke box, like she'd something to sell. I said "baby, what's the goin' price?" She told me to go to hell.
Bon Scott - Shot Down in Flames
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#240898 - 04/19/04 12:09 AM
Re: Fly fishing only waters
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It all boils down to this - I'm right, everyone else is wrong, and anyone who disputes this is clearly a dumbfuck.
Registered: 03/07/99
Posts: 17149
Loc: SE Olympia, WA
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And by the same token........just because I'd rather fish than eat fish, doesn't make me more or less of a fisherman than you. One thing I'm not is an elitist fly-guy from Seattle. I'm just looking to get the most fishing days for a fixed amount of "harvested" fish. Would I deprive you of a fish dinner to get myself a couple extra fishing days? Yes........yes I would. Hope you don't hate me too much for it.
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She was standin' alone over by the juke box, like she'd something to sell. I said "baby, what's the goin' price?" She told me to go to hell.
Bon Scott - Shot Down in Flames
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#240900 - 04/19/04 12:32 AM
Re: Fly fishing only waters
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Originally posted by Bruce Pearson: Maybe one of these days I'll actually eat a wild steelhead. i wonder how many people fainted when you posted that ??
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#240902 - 04/19/04 12:37 AM
Re: Fly fishing only waters
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Three Time Spawner
Registered: 03/07/99
Posts: 1558
Loc: Wherever I can swing for wild ...
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How about this idea, implement WSR, no exceptions, on a rivers where there is current healthy runs of wild steelhead, instead of waiting to implement it on depressed run.
But would that be proactive rule to help preserve wild steelhead and still allow angling opportunity.
Remember there are still hatchery steelhead for harvest.
BTW, How does selective gear rules always get defined has flyfishing only?
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Decisions and changes seldom occur by posting on Internet bulletin boards.
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#240904 - 04/19/04 01:00 AM
Re: Fly fishing only waters
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Originally posted by Double Haul:
Remember there are still hatchery steelhead for harvest.
you dont harvest hatchery fish you "retain" them
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#240905 - 04/19/04 01:18 AM
Re: Fly fishing only waters
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Dick Nipples
Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 28170
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
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boater,
You can define the words any way you want, if that's what you'd like to do, but in fisheries management, some words have meanings, and they don't always agree with yours.
harvest fishery = a fishery where fish are bonked and taken home
harvest = bonk
By definition, a CnR season, or a hatchery season under WSR, is not a wild steelhead harvest fishery.
There are incidental mortalities on wild fish associated with CnR or WSR, but it is not harvest. It is incidental mortality.
You can shuffle the words around all you want, but these are precise terms that mean something in fisheries management...you can't just interchange them to make your point.
If your point is that WSR and CnR have incidental impacts, then point taken...I've yet to hear a single person dispute that.
Is a dead fish dead? Yes. Does the fish really care how it died? No.
That still does not make incidental mortality into harvest.
Fish on...
Todd
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Team Flying Super Ditch Pickle
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#240907 - 04/19/04 09:23 AM
Re: Fly fishing only waters
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Returning Adult
Registered: 01/19/00
Posts: 300
Loc: Auburn, WA USA
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"Bruce...you often have rhetorically asked the same question, 'what is best for the fish', No sport, tribal or commercial fishing would, logic dictates, be best for the fish, A no brainer, ya think?"
Yep. In some cases this would be the best option. Especially if you really care about the resource.
"Would you rather 'err on the side of the fish' only to the extreme of no fishing,and to the exclusion of any other potential solution?"
Of course not.
"Can the need to be right (on both sides) be so blinding as to preclude any other possible solution, or combination of solutions?"
Some people don't want to see any other solution besides a statewide blanket ban. This is a key point and all along I have been saying that other possible solutions are available. I've seen many possible solutions posted here on this board but most of the time those ideas fall on deaf ears. Ideas such as slot limits, reduction of harvest i.e. tags, Guide restrictions etc and sometimes the current management policy is working and does not need to be "fixed".
"Maybe Dan S. is on to something here? I too, would rather fish than eat fish, and if those are the ONLY two choices this issue affords,,,,,,,,,,,,well Bruce , I firmly beleive you are in the minority."
Who said there were only two choices? Why must an Angler choose to either eat fish or just fish, why can't we do both. That is what the majority of Anglers want to do. Many Anglers enjoy sitting down at the dinner table with their family and their days catch as much as they enjoy the act of catching it. It's been that way since man first started fishing *gasp! eat steelhead, how barbaric, I only eat salmon and dead chickens!*. Of course sometimes thats just not possibe and in some cases only two choices do exist, but in other cases I tend to beleive better management options are availabe and should be used before WSR is mandated. WSR should be a last resort and/or used selectively. If you think I'm in the minority here, well then we disagree.
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#240908 - 04/19/04 10:12 AM
Re: Fly fishing only waters
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Returning Adult
Registered: 12/19/02
Posts: 279
Loc: Oak Harbor Wa
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I dont think bruce is alone on this matter at all. runs that are healthy should be open to retention (and I have never killed a wild fish) you can still catch and release on those rivers. I also liked the rolling closure idea just take pressure off some rivers for a season or 2 then open it and close the next river down...
Every one is real quick to judge people who dont see thing the same way they do...(which I did) By the way wheres CUPO. one drive by slam on my firends steelhead on trout gear before the new release law and all of a sudden he has nothing to say....
you guys realy want to help steelhead start shooting Commorants....you know the ocean dwelling bird that is now finding its way inland to sit on that little block of cement near concrete that eats its weight everyday in fish,,,,,
I tell you its the commorants aggenda that are declining the steelhead fry....DJ
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