I read an article in the paper last night about the Muckleshoots sending 80 boats to net their portion of the sockeye in Lake Washington. Muckleshoots Seafood Inc are marketing the fish are better than Copper River salmon (I don't disagree). Their reasoning for netting is this is for subsistance and ceremonial rights. And Safeway is buying all the fish they catch. But, the fact they are selling them to Safeway seems more like monitary rights. I definitely won't be buying fish from Safeway and might even stop shopping there. What's your view on this topic?

Sounds like commercial fishing to me.

Anyone familiar with the Boldt decision?? Are there any legal implications??

Subsistance and ceremonial rights my a$$! I don't think they should be allowd to recieve any anoumt of money (or even give away) for fish the are netted under thouse. I wonder if they are even allowed to sell thouse fish....

Before everyone gets all worked up, are you sure the article said they are going to net BEFORE the announcement of whether or not there'll be a season for everyone?

I'd bet that the Muckleshoots are just preparing to net their share in the lake if the season opens.

I agree with 4salt.. The WDFW site says that both tribal and state biologists were waiting until the escapement was met.....It's at approximately 195,000 now.....

Hey 4Salt ..et al...I have some waterfront property for sale in Arizona....



This is a tribal gill netter outside the locks NETTING NOW......not waiting until the escapement happens.....I'd be glad to follow the Boldt Decision if only the tribes would.....50/50 is a thing only dreams are made of....today it is catch all you can whenever you can.....

SOB!

WTF!

Pure BS!


That about sums up all that needs to be said about that picture Grandpa.

Ceremonial fishing, tomorrows friday night isn't it. by the looks of his corks(some sunk) he seems to be doing pretty good,gonna have plenty of bbq sockeye for the party

someone please correct me if I'm wrong but the tribes ceremonial catch is not counted towards their quota either as far as I know and by the way this is not the first time this has occurred.

What FnP said.....cubed.

I hate gill nets, no matter whose they are.

Based on the WDFW info, this makes these net owners not only cheats, but liars as well.

Mike

OK, I have always backed the Muckleshoots. But only when it comes to the sockeye run. Well if it's gonna be that way, Those mutha @$#^%$ can kiss my arse and along with this $#@*&^ up state.
Thanks for the photo Grandpa!

I have tried to tell people for years about the tribes dumping fish over at Hoodsport, they dump the bucks and take the eggs out of the females and dump them all on the beach.Seems pretty wasteful to catch them for subsistance and then dump them to rot!
Have seen them net in the skagit and take everything, saw a king that had a tail so wide, it was wider than touching my thumbs and spreading my hands and fingers out.This thing was a pig, they never looked twice at it, just put it in the fish box with everyting else. really made me sad.
That picture is worth 1000 of our licenses, think of the missed economic opportunity because they are not allowing those fish to go upriver,or lake,well you know............
You won't see that picture in the paper......................Fishy.......

I stand corrected grandpa..........

So much for the tribes giving a &^%*&..They really built a bridge with that one...

I have encouraged people in the past to take photos like this one so when we hear the rosy stuff we can see what really happens. I notice in the photo that there is an escape through the small locks but the nets stretch over towards the fish ladder. Look in the viewing windows and guess what else you will see? Chinook....that's right..the threatened run of Chinook moving up into the lake. Do you think that the same folks who claim ceremonial rights and sustinence rights (food) would let these threatened fish go? Even if they would they won't survive a gill net anyway. And if anyone had the time try filming after dark in the canal all the way from the locks to the lake.

Then..one of these days the tribes will announce their "opening" and then the fleet of gill netters in all things big and small will converge on Lake Washington to get their fair share... Oh and all you have to do is call the tribes if you want to get a count of the catch. They'lll be happy to tell you whatever you want to hear. Call WDFW and see what they say if you ask them how many Sockeye have been netted so far. Try it some time.

Sorry to say that accountability is non existent with the tribes. We are handing them our fisheries on a silver platter and I know the Boldt Decision did not mandate that.

I think most of will agree that this is an OUTRAGE and it happens regularly across our state. What organizations fight to protect these rights for the sportsman? Do any of the organizations soley fight to preserve our rights and combat the tribes? I wine alot about this problem too, I'm just looking for a group to be my voice........

I sent a link to this thread by e-mail to Mark Yuasa, the writer for the Seattle Times fishing section. Will also send one to Greg Johnston at the P-I.

well, if any of you fish the skokomish and know its a great lil river with a real healthy run of fish, being its gonna be closed this year for the month of august.. you can bet the tribes will be netting and if you look beneath the bridge, you might jus see some nice fall kigs jus laying in water underneath that bridge. i know them fish didnt come from the sportsmen.. when august rolls around, jus go down there and take a look and see if they still get to net..

But "WDFW is working closely with federal fisheries agencies and tribal co-managers to ensure that Puget Sound salmon fisheries are opened and conducted in compliance with the Endangered species act..." Yeah, what a crock of ****e. If any of you have ever been to the Skok (I'm sure most of you have) it doesn't seem to me that it's an unhealthy run needing assistance from ANY agencies. I'm sure, no almost positive, tribes will be netting there at the first sign of fish and dumping them, like BB75 said.It's like that on alot of other rivers this year too. They've got something up their sleeve.

I spoke to a WDFW Employee today who will remain unamed that advised me that any fish taken by tribal nets will be counted in the overall run size tally, but not until AFTER the season is over. Meaning that any fish taken by the tribes are negatively affecting the total escapment goal we are trying to reach to get to go fishing. Notice how those coutns dipped dramatically in the last few days then crept back up?

BTW folks, that is most likely not a Muckleshoot boat, but a Suquamish boat netting those fish. Muckleshoots shifted from netting in south LW to a location above the locks in the last few years.
The Muckleshoots arent the only tribe allowed to net these fish.

There was an article on the netting in the King County Journal Newspaper yesterday. Acccording to the report they were allowed to take 2500 fish for ceremonial and misc. purposes. I saw another deal where the sockeye they are catching is selling for $18 a pound. The article in the journal was a promotion for their Muckleshoot brand Sockeye.

I wonder if the Suquamish's mascot is Hershal?!?!?!?!?!?

Maybe folks should start getting serious about joining the RFA and contributing to the new Sportsfishing PAC....We need major clout in Olympia and in Washington DC...

I just spoke with a friend of mine who takes his boat thru the locks about 3 times per week & he speaks to the lock operators regularly about the nets. The indians, as far as he knows, have netted only one day for their "cerimonial" allotment. He hasn't seen the nets since.

But, he adds, when the season opens up, the net every square inch from the mouth of the locks, gas works park, montlake cut, lake, everything. The nets stretch 3/4 of the way across in zig zag pattern as to prevent any fish from making it through.

Grandpa,

I didn't say that the tribes weren't netting at all, I was saying that the 80 boats the Muckleshoots have getting ready according to the article probably won't net until the season is announced.

I don't think 80 gillnet boats could fit into the area below the locks. Your pic only shows 1?

Hey, I dislike the idea of netting and unfair allocations as much as the next guy. I just didn't want this thread to degrade into another witch hunt before the REAL facts are known.

This BS happens every sockeye year, cerimonial and subsistance fishing my arse. Supposed to be taking only 3000 fish RIGHT. Last time they had 4 tractor trailers waiting to be loaded. I bet these fish don't count twords the total count.

Sportsfisherman are getting the shaft because we are disorganized.

For those of you who care about this problem (or any other issue) and feel like we our politicians don't care, you need to join RFA and sponsor the Washington Sportfishing PAC.

The tribes and commercial fisherman have sponsored their favorite candidates for years and now have a sympathetic congress. These organizations are a tool to get the politicians on our side...which is our only hope for ending the insanity.

I made the comments about the 80 boats and I would make a good bet that even we the fisherman get a fishery, the indians will net and take their 50%+.
What about the fact that Safeway has partnered up with the Muckleshoots and will be buying all the fish they catch, doesn't that rub you the wrong way?

"What about the fact that Safeway has partnered up with the Muckleshoots and will be buying all the fish they catch, doesn't that rub you the wrong way?"

As long as those fish sold to Safeway are part of the Muckleshoot's legally allotted 50% of the total harvest and NOT one fish more... Then no.

Safeway will buy them somewhere in order to satisfy market demand, so I think I'd rather they came from the artificially propogated Lk. WA run than from say... the endangered Stuart river early run in BC.

I just got back from the grocery store. It wasn't Safeway.

I keep hearing about this 50%. With the fox in charge of the hen house (so to speak) my guess would be 70 to 90% in some areas at the very least.
I have seen to much, to believe that the tribes even care about percentages as have most of you board members.
It would really put my mind at ease to see an accurate fish count of what the tribes really take in numbers of fish but as far as as I know, they are their own police. when was the last time you saw an article in the paper about an Indian getting a fine for keeping too many fish?
for snagging?
For fishing during a closed season?
I did talk to an Indian "Fisherman"
who was netting a small creek a few years ago, who said he got arrested by the feds who had set up a sting operation and he sold fish to wrong people. He thought it was really funny that he got caught with just a slap on the wrist.
Don't get me wrong, I know there are crooks on both sides of the fence but Somebody show me an accurate account of 50%.
I really don't believe that little johnny snagging fish on the skok or where ever takes those fish to the tribe and says I got 15 fish today please add them to our 50% quota.
Ramprat

FishNphysician, have either of these guys written about any of this type of behavior before? Tribal netting and fisheries management have been off hands for years with these papers, I would truely like to see someone write something near the truth about the tribes lack of interest in our fisheries health.
Fishy...........

Dont go to the casino! I think that is the only real leverage we have. They make too much money gaming to to risk any kind of bad exposure. Any good ideas on how to start a negative publicity campain???

That photo would make a good start toward some bad publicity.....

Where's Hershal when you need 'em? How would the natives deal with that pesky varmint if he was messing up their "net and keep" fishery?

I never would want to lose a single fish to one of those salmon eaters, but it would be entertaining to know a few fish were lucky enough to be chased around and past the nets.

I've spent a grand total of $20 at the Muckelshoot casino and as far as I'm concerned that's $20 too much. Just walking around the card tables watching all the chips move in one direction was enough to turn me off.

A couple of years ago up in BC some folks decided that they wanted to clean a river out of all nets. So to make a story short, under the cover of darkness they dumped blackberry bushes into the river, tangling the nets and rendering them unusable. But naturally the government was coerced into replacing all losses including any monetary setbacks.

Now don't get any ideas

Hey Grandpa

I would rather propose that all the tribes dip net their fish from the fish ladder in the middle of the day. Provide a full time fish checker to count fish of better yet install sonar counters in the ladders to get an accurate count of returning fish. No more netting outside the locks with the endangered Chinook bycatch. No more catch the fish before they are counted and no more over harvest in the middle of the night. Get some accountability into our fisheries. Get it all out in the open. Base the division of the harvest on real facts.

Grampa, that must have been quite a slumber to have had a dream like that, but then of course you woke up and reality slapped you in the face. Along with all of us sports fishers.


Fishy..

BEAUTIFUL IDEA GRANDPA!! Has anyone proposed this to the State? How would we propose something like this? Is it feasible? What type of rebuttal would the Natives have?