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#264758 - 12/23/04 06:05 PM Skagit river brats(or lack there of)
skydriftin Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 01/26/02
Posts: 306
Loc: everett,wa
the skagit system has the largest projected return in the state(500k plus). Recent years it has been projected at 400k or more. Despite large plants ,this system produces very few hatchery brats. Anyone besides me think this is a gross mismanagement of the fish. This is the last of the puget sound rivers that can support a cnr fishery for wild fish,we don't need or want this many hatchery fish here. Wouldn't we be better served with these brats going to the Sky,Snoq,Bogy,Lewis.Cowlitz,or even the Green. All of these rivers have MUCH better return %s than the Skagit. Benefitial to wild fish with more opportunity for hatchery fish,probably would cost less too. Around here we call that a no brainer!

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#264759 - 12/23/04 06:15 PM Re: Skagit river brats(or lack there of)
BNelson Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 10/18/01
Posts: 164
Loc: Woodinville
I dont think thats a no brainer. I think the LARGE percentage of those fish are intercepted in the bay. Therefore taking pressure and harvest off the wild fish. So if we cut the plants back or move them. We or the wild fish lose..... Believe me I would love to see more fish dumped in the Sky or elsewhere. I might be wrong.

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#264760 - 12/23/04 08:25 PM Re: Skagit river brats(or lack there of)
Spartan Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 11/08/04
Posts: 293
Loc: Little Susitna River
How bout we get the nets out of the way and see what kind of return we get????

_________________________
"Just keep casting, just keep casting. Casting casting, just keep casting"

To the tune of "Just keep swimming" sung by Dori in Finding Nemo.

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#264761 - 12/23/04 11:35 PM Re: Skagit river brats(or lack there of)
Ikissmykiss Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 03/01/03
Posts: 1248
Loc: Snohomish County
Skydriftin'

Certainly you are not suggesting that the Skagit River is expecting 500,000 brats back this year! They WDFW may release that many between the main stem releases and the 200,000 or so from the Cascade.

But a return? On an exceptional year you might get 5,000 back. The last 10 years? Probably 1,500 - 2,500.

The brats hardly interfere with the nates in this system where most spawning takes place in April....

Speaking of.....what the heck is going on with the Grandy Creek project? I heard that it was funded two years ago.

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#264762 - 12/23/04 11:49 PM Re: Skagit river brats(or lack there of)
Todd Offline
Bumpin the 6X9's

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 25743
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
Ikissmykiss,

1500-2500?

Try more like 150 to 400...it's running at a dismal 0.3 % return rate.

Forgive me, Bob, if this isn't OK, but head over to http://www.gamefishin.com and go to the Politics and Regulations forum...there's a nine page thread about the Skagit hatchery run and the project to build the acclimation ponds either at Grandy Creek or the Baker River.

Lots of good information there.

Fish on...

Todd

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#264763 - 12/24/04 01:07 AM Re: Skagit river brats(or lack there of)
Ikissmykiss Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 03/01/03
Posts: 1248
Loc: Snohomish County
Hey, I was being a little optimistic there Todd.

A nine page thread on gamefishin' and hardly even a mention here....hmmm.

My first time to Blue Creek was my last one. It was a Wed in the summer. I could not imagine it in the winter. From what I remember, (I've wiped it from my memory banks) there is more area at Reiter from the creek to the big rock than there is at Blue Creek. I hear you can always take your life into your hands and skinny along cliffs to get to other areas below, where you have the possibility of getting wiped out by a slide. My point is, for a terminal fishery that gets the largest amount of hatchery plants, and the largest amount of fishing pressure, it just sucks.

The Skagit is the biggest river in the state besides the Columbia. Why not pump a million brats into it that come back in Nov, Dec, and Jan? Then in Feb, Mar, and April a decent return of nates come back. What more could you want?

I'm sure the Skagit County guys are screaming "don't turn it into another Cow!". But I think this very large system can handle the extra fish and the extra fishing pressure. I'm sure the terminal fishery would be a lot more fishing friendly than Blue Creek.

Ike

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#264764 - 12/24/04 01:39 AM Re: Skagit river brats(or lack there of)
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by Ikissmykiss:

The Skagit is the biggest river in the state besides the Columbia. Why not pump a million brats into it that come back in Nov, Dec, and Jan? Then in Feb, Mar, and April a decent return of nates come back. What more could you want?
That would be wonderful! But in order to have that, you have to get the folks in Olympia to let loose the $$$ to fund such a thing.


Quote:
Originally posted by Ikissmykiss:
I'm sure the Skagit County guys are screaming "don't turn it into another Cow!". But I think this very large system can handle the extra fish and the extra fishing pressure. I'm sure the terminal fishery would be a lot more fishing friendly than Blue Creek. Ike
As far as "more friendly"..ever hit the Cascade on "Combat" day?

Yes, it is a big river and could likely handle the pressure, but it ALREADY gets a lot of pressure on the existing stocks. I doubt we would see that great of an increase in fishermen (overall) if the return was 200k instead of 2000.

Keep in mind, that if they did, in fact, release a couple million smolt, that they would be set loose at a variety of sites throughout the Skagit system, not all coming out of the Marblemount/Cascade area. This would lessen the pressure on each release area...instead of concentrating 99% of it at the Cascade, where it is now.

BTW, there are some catchable fish in the river now...but ya got to know just where to look, (and it ain't where you would expect).

My two cents worth...

Mike

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#264765 - 12/24/04 02:01 AM Re: Skagit river brats(or lack there of)
Homer2handed Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 1395
Loc: DEADWOOD
First off I’m no EXPORT on the Skagit! I was born in Mt. Vernon and a Member of Skagit Watershed Council. I’ve been working with WDFW Marblemount Hatchery for 4 years now.

SWC just received grants (from SRFB) to help out with estuarine habitat issues which will help out all Salmonids on there way out to sea.

For the last 2 years there only been 4 release sites (for Steelhead) on the Skagit System. And they have been using “volitional release mechanism” at each site for over 4 years on those sites.

If only people would ask WDFW Marblemount Hatchery Manager Question there wouldn’t be all this confusion around there methods.

The Barnaby Slough Rearing ponds where a joke when we visited them in November; 18 inches of muck with 2 foot of grass on top of the muck where though out the rearing pond it self. These ponds need to be clean out each year not every ten years. Hatchery workers contacted four different organizations in the Skagit Valley for help with the clean up but they didn’t have schedule to maintain the facilities year after year so no money was granted from three of the organization.

More later!
_________________________
Brian

[img]http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:VeLkiG2PPCrjzM:www.bunncapitol.com/cookbook[/img]

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#264766 - 12/24/04 02:43 AM Re: Skagit river brats(or lack there of)
cupo Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 06/18/03
Posts: 1060
Loc: north sound
1/2 million fish planted and the returns are poor. Planting enough fish is not the problem.

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#264767 - 12/24/04 03:32 AM Re: Skagit river brats(or lack there of)
skydriftin Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 01/26/02
Posts: 306
Loc: everett,wa
put these fish to use,take 350k of the 500k plant and move them to more productive systems,no more reasearch ,no more bs from wdfw,lets get OUR moneys worth from OUR hatchery fish

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#264768 - 12/24/04 03:39 AM Re: Skagit river brats(or lack there of)
skydriftin Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 01/26/02
Posts: 306
Loc: everett,wa
Homer,what confusion? 400k plus out less than 160 fish caught! What ever the problem is (hatchery practices,system,ma nature) does'nt matter. The current system does'nt work,move the plants to a more yeilding system!

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#264769 - 12/24/04 10:16 AM Re: Skagit river brats(or lack there of)
rln Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 05/31/02
Posts: 329
Loc: anywhere in B.C. sometimes wa...
ever think the problem may be the direction the fish take when leaving the system? Almost every stream on the south coast mainland of BC have very dismal returns. We do not do much hatchery planting overall, but maybe the skagit smolts go the same route has our young steelhead and just disappear some where around all the fish farms in northern johnstone straits. The only streams that appear to have any fish in them seem to have their smolts leave through the strait of Juan de Fuca. Just an thought early in the morning.

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#264770 - 12/24/04 11:25 AM Re: Skagit river brats(or lack there of)
Homer2handed Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 02/06/04
Posts: 1395
Loc: DEADWOOD
skydriftin

Sorry about that, I was talking about the other BB thread.
_________________________
Brian

[img]http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:VeLkiG2PPCrjzM:www.bunncapitol.com/cookbook[/img]

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#264771 - 12/24/04 11:43 AM Re: Skagit river brats(or lack there of)
Anonymous
Unregistered


Skydriftin (and all)

This is a BIG river...lots of places for those returning fish to hang out...water has been bad this year too...and some of the return spots are getting fish in daily in good numbers.

NO, those plants don't need to go to another system...IMO.

MB

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#264772 - 12/24/04 01:41 PM Re: Skagit river brats(or lack there of)
chongo469 Offline
Juvenille at Sea

Registered: 05/07/03
Posts: 148
Loc: Everett,wa
fine....if they gotta move....... put e'm in the stilly....If you put them in the sky it will look like humpy season year round with every hosehead with a meat stick, out fishing for e'm.......( it pretty close now).......besides I've never had trouble catching the brats on the skagit..maybe your doing it wrong.............

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#264773 - 12/24/04 02:00 PM Re: Skagit river brats(or lack there of)
Fish Stalker Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 12/14/00
Posts: 1236
Loc: S.W. Washington
They expect 1 to 2 % return rate to the skagit...the casacade is getting its fish however the fish are just shooting right through the skagit not holding it seems.

Hopefully the native seasons proves to be more rewarding for those on the big river.

Good luck to all

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#264774 - 12/24/04 02:58 PM Re: Skagit river brats(or lack there of)
skydriftin Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 01/26/02
Posts: 306
Loc: everett,wa
Mike B,water has been up & down every where ,still the other rivers have been much better than the Skagit system,big river with lots to hide? recent years this systems % return is unacceptable,just because the Skagit is in your back yard doesn't justify the smolt plant it receives,a nagging question- you right there-how many bright upriver,winter brats have you caught?
chonga-if the additional plants turn the other rivers into humpy season thats still better than 400k plants with less than 160 caught,never had any trouble catching brats on the Skagit? you are the only person thats ever had the marbles to say that. You must be super fisherman. I've caught many steelies on the Skagit,many large ones too,all wild! When a guide with the knowledge and experience on the Skagit that Rob Endsley has and chooses to fish elsewhere(sky,bogy ets) its time to decrease the plant and increase it elsewhere! With the decrease in fishing opportunity everywhere, lets get OUR moneys worth out of OUR hatchery fish!

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#264775 - 12/24/04 06:47 PM Re: Skagit river brats(or lack there of)
lupo Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 09/16/02
Posts: 1571
Loc: seattle wa
if only 160 were caught last year ... than i feel pretty good cuz some friends and i got about 20% of the take. \:\) .... and here i thought i was a cracker..... im a 20%'er

_________________________
"time is but the stream I go a-fishing in"- Henry David Thoreau

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#264776 - 12/25/04 02:40 AM Re: Skagit river brats(or lack there of)
cupo Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 06/18/03
Posts: 1060
Loc: north sound
A combined total of 2723 hatchery winter steelhead were taken by sport anglers on the Skagit and Cascade in the winter of 01-02.
Edited to add the link to harvest records:
http://wdfw.wa.gov/fish/harvest/harvest.htm

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#264777 - 12/25/04 03:30 AM Re: Skagit river brats(or lack there of)
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:
Originally posted by skydriftin:
Mike B,water has been up & down every where ,still the other rivers have been much better than the Skagit system,big river with lots to hide? recent years this systems % return is unacceptable,just because the Skagit is in your back yard doesn't justify the smolt plant it receives,a nagging question- you right there-how many bright upriver,winter brats have you caught?
If you live within about 50 miles, this river is in your backyard too. Smolt plants need to increase, and factors such as commercial and native nets, etc. need to be reduced (or eliminated, if I had my way). I believe the Skagit broodstocks come from some of the same stocks that are used in other hatcheries..so it ain't the fish.

As for this year, water levels have been higher than normal, and as someone said, the fisha re blasting right back to the Cascade, and the other spots where they plant.

Speaking for myself, I have had only one serious trip this year for brats).

See:

http://www.piscatorialpursuits.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=000792

Some things (very damn few, to be honest) are far more important to me than chasing steelhead. This is one of them. Been at the hospital nearly all day (as I have for every day in the last 2 weeks) and, at the moment, could care less if there wasn't a fish for a hundred miles.

I do wish you a successful years brat-attacking, and a Merry Christmas!

Mike B

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