On my next visit to San Francisco, I think I'll walk into the ladies shower room at the YWCA and take a gander.

To deny me entrance would be blatant sex descrimination and I KNOW the mayor would not stand for that....

Before I go to bed tonight I thought I would weigh in on gay marriege. What does it mean to be gay? Hopping through the tulips like a bunny in a "gay" sort of way....NOOOO

It means one man humping another man or performing oral sex on the other man. mmmmm that sounds really great! All I know is that I don't think the anus is an in hole but an outhole.

I don't think marriage was designed to sanctify violation of inholes by same sex deviates. I think it was designed for a man and a woman.
Sorry all you Howard Dean fans....Just the way I see it.

Call it what it is: PERVERTED!!!

Here comes trouble.

Conservatives and their hypocrisy always amaze me. They want less government regulation, but they want the government to regulate people's sex lives and morals. Want less taxes, but full services. Pro life, but pro death penalty. Want to fish and hunt, but don't want to protect the land and rivers to do those things.

Bottom line on this issue seems to be the 14th Amendment to the Constitution, "equal protection." I am not sure how you can justify treating people unequally when it comes to marriage without using some moral/religious grounds to do so. Morality can be left to religions that can decide whether or not to condone such marriages. Or would the conservatives also rather have the government interferring in religion too?

Can someone really support a ban on gay marriage without using morals or religion or bigoted rationalization in light of the our Constitution? This is my challenge to everyone for the day.

read this again: pull your grammer book out of your ass, put down your challenge again and you may get a serious response.

Meanwhile I throw this out: Would it be OK if I marry my dog? He is my best friend and companion and I love him very much.

I guess I will try to answer your admittedly non-serious response.

Equal protection under the 14th Amendment does not extend to, and has never been applied to, your dog. This issue deals with people who are guaranteed equal protection under the law.

OK no dogs, can I marry my sister? I love her.

Brant,

Do you support NAMBLA?

"Conservatives and their hypocrisy always amaze me. They want less government regulation, but they want the government to regulate people's sex lives and morals. Want less taxes, but full services. Pro life, but pro death penalty. Want to fish and hunt, but don't want to protect the land and rivers to do those things. "

Are these comparisons supposed to be serious? For example, are you really suggesting that killing an innocent baby (murder) is equal to killing a convicted murderer (justice)?? And I know many conservatives who actively work to protect the land and rivers and fish. You've lost credibility right off the bat by using such a broad paint brush and illogical comparisons.

What specific 'equal protections' are we talking about here?

What about the American people's right to protect the institution of marriage? Marriage plays an important part in our country's social structure and it is being attacked in enough directions already (as evident in the divorce rate). Just look at how the media\liberals continues to dilute and mock marriage in the rash of new "reality" shows, TV, and movies. If American's want to save marriage as a special and meaningful family bond for their children and grand children, we need to take a stand -not just againt gay "marriage", but against the continued assault on marriage and the traditional family in general.

If it's legal rights they want, let them find another way...

Marriage to a family member or kids is not the issue here. These things bring up public safety issues and involve people with no capacity to make a choice. This is about two non-related, consenting adults and their rights to be free of state control over their lives.

"Justice" is not always equal. Lots of people executed in this country didn't get fair justice. Look at attorneys sleeping in Texas, for example.

Equal protection I am talking about is:

Amendment XIV

Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

If that provision of the Constitution has meaning, the government should recognize unions between consenting adults and leave it to others to regulate morals.

Some of my tirades might have been overly broad and I dont mean them to address everyone.

Attorneys sleeping is a seperate issue. They should be prosecuted to the fullest. The system will never be perfect - but I don't want to start a hole seperate topic

Are we talking about civil unions or marriage? Are we trying to equate the two?

A brother and sister could easily be consenting adults who fell in love. Do we have the right to stop them from marriage?

That amendment doesn't say anything about consenting adults. Brant said that. There is nothing in this amendment (that he is hanging his hat on) to preclude the activities of NAMBLA, sleeping lawyers, brother/sister weddings, or men in ladies shower rooms.

Is there anywhere in the world other than the USA where this idiocy is even being considered?

Yes. Gay marriage is legally recognized in Amsterdam.

Amsterdam great. imagine the possibilites

I thought maybe Amsterdam....and possibly France or Sweden.

Is there any major religion that embraces homosexuality? I am asking because I am curious. I learned recently that the Rastafarians have NO tolerance for it.

Christianity - NO
Islam - NO
Jews - NO
Hindu - ?
Buddhism - ?

Made a pass at a young Rastafarian boy, did ya?


Aunty-- careful now, that borders on Socialism. There's some here that just don't stand for no talk like that.

GoH,

Naw, I was watching a story on Bob Marley. Peace, love, ganja, Jah, but NO gay stuff.

(Homosexuality is illegal in Jamaica)

Aunty - I think you have very valid points, and I agree there is a lot of common sense in your examples.

But leave marriage alone. It is a unique relationship with some boundries that most americans appreciate.

Head of household, civil unions, life partners, etc - fine, just don't keep diluting and minimizing the importants of marriage in our society.

I'd like to see some of those special interest tax dollars going to programs in schools that teach kids (and adults) the value of the skills to have lasting relationships. People seem to think it is common sense and doesn't need to be taught, but if all our kids have to teach them about relationships is MTV, movies, TV shows - then it's no wonder marriage is on a downward spiral. Thankfully there are still lots of strong families out there providing good examples and know how to raise there kids and how to maintain strong and lasting relationships built on commitments and not just feelings.

PhishPhreak, are you sure you want us unionized, liberal teacher types instilling moral values on your kids. Wouldn't it be a better situation if this was taught at home or at church on Sunday. Schools have enough on their plate, what with all the testing, ESL, BD, LD, HD etc. not mention the three R's

"PhishPhreak, are you sure you want us unionized, liberal teacher types instilling moral values on your kids. Wouldn't it be a better situation if this was taught at home or at church on Sunday. Schools have enough on their plate, what with all the testing, ESL, BD, LD, HD etc. not mention the three R's"

There is a lot of useless testing and subjects in schools that could be cut\replaced... Heck no I don't want shools trying to teach morals (they already do - in many ways) - but I'm talking about some basic life skills that they can use in their relationships - whether it be in their families or careers. Communication\relationship skills - seperate from specific religion or sexual preference.... (why do you think 'Dr Phil' is so popular the last few years - there is a true gap and need - not that he is the answer...)

Most kids don't go to church or have parents at home to talk to. Some do, many don't. I have my kids covered, but as a society and community, I'm concerned about those kids left to 'figure it out on their own'.

This is my last post. There used to be classes in life skills taught in schools. They were called Home/family ( Home Ec.) , Shop classes and Home Ec. are being eliminated, as they were deemed useless. All kids are now college bound and need to pass the WASL. Life skills and trades are no longer needed. Sorry personal biases coming out. PP you need to run for the school board!

LOL, as my kids get older I just might

Yep, seems shools are under so much pressure to come up with high scores on those tests, that they are losing sight of actually teaching and equiping kids. How many actually make it to college? How many even want to go to college? Besides, at the rate college tuition is going, I bet it will just keep getting worse.

Yeah, this post wasn't really heading anywhere to begin with...

Gay or Queer or same-sex..whatever spin you want to put on it matters not. Two men getting married is nothing more than an attempt to legitimize an unnatural act. It is an attempt to glorify and sanctify sick sexual behavior. Nothing is sacred anymore in this country. As far as Amsterdam is concerned they have an anything goes secular society much like what the liberal Democrats are shoving down our throats now in this country. Makes me sick.

SOOOOOOO ... If I want to make a scandal of this issue, I could say hmmmmmmmm.....Divorce my wife, (who I dearly love) then "marry" my best "Male" fishing buddy , then I could get him on the insurance plan at my workplace as my "dependant " along with my two boys ...... I could then pay my "Ex" wife to watch our children while me and my new "wife"/ "partner" are on the river fishing.... What a sweeeeet deal that would be !!!!! .......*AG'S ARE *AG'S ....PERIOD!!! If you find the meaning of love in the sight of another human that is of the same sex as you ...YOU ARE IN NEED OF SERIOUS HELP !!! ( Smith and Wesson comes to mind). It is not "O.K. " to be gay , it has just been forced upon our general society (by *ag's or *ag sympathizers like the media and politicians ) that we as a population need to accept the fact that *ag's have rights and that they are entitled to the same rights that normal everyday humans are allowed .... I call B.S. !!! If you put 10 male rats in a cage, there is a good chance that a few of them are going to start "favoring" their male buddies , and most likely there "buddies"are not going to be very receptive ... If you put 8 female rats in the same cage with the ten male rats, odds are that the two male rats that dont get to mate with the females will not try to be "friendly" with one another , they will probably try to mate with one of the females at all costs, like fighting with or even killing one of their lesser male counterparts .........why is that ????? Two days earlier the male rats wanted nothing more than to be intimate with one another, but once you introduce females into the picture they tend to lean towards heterosexualism ... This to me seems to lean toward the idea that *ag's choose to be *ag's and that some influences in their life have led them down the path of least resistance ... Like "I didn't get a date for the senior prom , so I must be gay " or "I just can't seem to get along with the opposite sex , so I must be gay"............ I guess with the qualifications reqired to be a "*ag", anyone can join the club and then reap the benefits from our society ..... Or in my eyes, be just another leach on society and the services that all of us as citizens pay for in one form or another .... ........... Rest assured if you find love in another same sex individual, you WILL burn in hell , so "Live long and prosper " you worthless culls......and don't try and convince me that the path you have chosen or the path's that you support are the only way to go .........Just my "humble" opinion ...Von Warner

atta boy!

Our schools teach the kids that homosexuality is just another lifestyle choice -- no better or worse than heterosexuality.

Just like choosing your favoite food or your political party. 6 of 1, half-dozen of the other....

I say:
Tolerance - Yes
Acceptance - No

I'm with you Slab....Just say no to gay marriage

I seen it with my own eyes, one of those teacher types hugging each kid as they got on the bus to go home. Both boys and girls, its perverted I tell ya. No tell'n what goes on behind them doors. They have union meetings to plan how to corrupt our kids, and fluoridate the water supply, darn shame.

Baron, is it you or Piper that makes the call on who goes to hell? If it is you , then I be saved, being married to a women an all....thank God.

Doug P,

You sound angry. Let me set you straight on a few things:

HUGS - good
teacher unions - BAD (the worst)
flouridation - good
teaching kids that there is nothing wrong with a homosexual life - bad

You need to be tolerant of those who live differently from yourself. I'll bet there are gay people in both heaven and hell.

I suggest sensitivity training.

Slab not angry, just thought an outlandish statement about the schools deserved the same response. Did not mean to hurt your feelings. Thought you boys were kidding...tolerance, acceptance of others, and unions all good.

Actually neither one of us... But I'll put in a good word for ya, although He kinda likes to hear it personal ya know...

Oh, look at all the sinners pointing fingers.

Doug P

What's wrong with fluoride in the water. It sure helps with tooth decay.

It was a joke! In the 60's there was a right -wing group of people that thought fluoride in the water was a communist plot to poison Americans.

This just in...... Bush cabinet member calls teacher union a "Terrorist organization". Which would make me a member of a terrorist organization. Does that mean I can't fly to Alaska this summer or do I have to leave my shoes behind. Clowns running wild in DC.

And in the immortal words of Bruce Dickinson...

I've been down
At the crazy house
I've been playing
With the cat and the mouse
I've been down
I've been down
I've seen the crazy people
Running around

SHOOT ALL THE CLOWNS
Shoot 'em down
Shoot 'em down
Shoot 'em down

Doug P

Gotcha

Rosie O'Donnell Weds Longtime Girlfriend

Thu Feb 26, 7:15 PM Listen to Audio

By LISA LEFF, Associated Press Writer

SAN FRANCISCO - Rosie O'Donnell married her longtime girlfriend Thursday, taking what she called a proud stand for gay civil rights in the city where more than 3,300 other same-sex couples have tied the knot since Feb. 12.

"I want to thank the city of San Francisco for this amazing stance the mayor has taken for all the people here, not just us but all the thousands and thousands of loving, law-abiding couples," the former talk show host, holding a large bouquet, said after she and Kelli Carpenter emerged from their brief ceremony inside Mayor Gavin Newsom's office.

watching Rosie on the news, it is obvious she will be the one with the strap on. She is definitely the "man" in this household. They ahve 4 kids already too. Those kids must be really proud of their "dad".

All is not lost Grandpa... I'm almost positive dad's insurance will cover their therapy!

So let me get this straight

I have no medical insurance and have reached that point in life that I figure that I am going to need some. My wife of 30 years has her own coverage through her job in the private sector.

I have an older good friend that is in the carpenter's union and his wife passed away.

I divorce my wife ( or is that really neccessary if we change the definition of marriage) , run down to S. F. and mary my carpenter butty..

Then I can come home get my much needed colonastophy paid for by the union, still living with my wife and looking forward to my buttie's retirement benefits.

Better yet make my friend a state employee and you all can pay for my HIV treatment

don't forget to stop by the closest public school and stock up on condoms..also stop by the DSHS office and have one of the fine employees there fix you up with instructions on how to squeeze out all the free services and money you can from the state..afterall you will be discriminated against as soon as you marry your buddy..You'll be a minority!!!

Aunty,
I believe that to be a classic case of Strap-on envy?

Oh, Papaslap could get on his wife's policy for maybe $10 a day, But then should the Doctor that she works for go out of business , perhaps due to too high insurance premiums Papa and his old lady would both be out of luck.

Butt maybe the old lady could find here own queer friend.

I can't imagine how you teachers out there are going to be comfortable teaching sex-ed to kids and explaining the new family structures and behavior.

AuntyM....I really don't buy into this "threatened" crap at all...or the term "homophobe"......Flaunting the fact that you are a lesbian and then acting typically hostile as most of them are makes me puke..that's all. not complicated.

I may just be an old bigit but I think that this whole deal is not really about being queer or not , it is about mayors changing the law.

If this is left to on unchallenged what's next?

Shelton Mayor says pot and cocaine use to be legal.

Boise Mayor legalizes the sale of assault weapons.

Partial birth abortions ok'ed in Portland.....and so on

Is the sky really falling?

Oh now I get it AuntyM.....If I support gay marriage and endorse tribal netting of wild fish I can have more credibility on fishing issues like you do. I will agree that speaking your mind has a price. Keeping silent and bowing to the loudest voices is just not my nature.

Now Marsha that is what I expect from you.
A sensible and honest answer which is correct. I will take that advise to heart much faster than the bigot accusation. I guess on the gay marriage issue I think it is the crying from the rooftop and the "in-your-face" nature of the "gay movement" that I object to. I work with alot of gay people and have had alot of loyal gay customers over the years. I don't agree with what they are doing and don't need to bash them as long as their "gayness" stays where it belongs and that is not in my face. The tribes deserve some tolerance if they are willing to sit down and be "comanagers" as they are so often called. My experience tells me that they still don't care about the resource on the whole. Some do but most don't. I expect that it is education for all of us that will turn the tide in many areas. I will try to keep the emotive attacks to a minimum....try to keep the name calling to a minimum if you can,too.

I would rather ignore both too but when Rosie ODonnell is on the nightly news kissing her new wife on the steps of the SF courthouse with the mayor applauding it is crap in my book. The gay "movement" is more political than anything these days. It just makes me tired. I am going to go back to finding a way to slow down the nets or stop them if I can.

The main point I was trying to make when I started this thread is that the mayor of SF is blatantly flaunting state law.

The state of CA overwhelmingly passed an initiative banning same-sex marriage. It was a one-issue initiative, plain as day and not open to "legal interpretation".

Just think if the mayor broke state law in a non "politically correct" way. Say he started licensing brothels to operate. He'd be booted out in a New York minute.

Did Y'all hear the latest???

Portland is the latest city to legalize gay marriage...

All I got to say is its a darn good thing salmon and steelhead aren't gay... they have enough problems let alone trying to reproduce with same sex mates!

:p

This is why we need an amendment ASAP.

Soon half the country will be sueing the other half.

Every lawyer's dream - a lawsuit-based economy.

Slab

It is very unlikely an amendment will happen. Neither the Republicans nor the Democrats think an amendment will happen like Bush suggested.

What will most likely happen is the issue will be played out in the states. One state will make it legal and another state will make it illegal forcing the issue to go to the Supreme Court.

Oddly enough if the Constitution does get amended it will be the first time in history that it was amended to take away rights from a certain group of individuals rather then grant rights.

LT, What current rights would be taken away?

Slab

I believe it would be the right for them to get married. Granted it is illegal by state law but the constitution does not state that it is illegal.
So IMHO if they amend the constitution to say that same sex marriage is illegal that would be taking away the right for them to get married.

Hope that was not circular logic on my part

law law law
Bla bla bla
tra la la la
la ti da

http://www.law.cornell.edu/topics/marriage.html

Papa

Didn't mean to get you worked up, it is ok if we disagree you know.....don't worry gay marriage won't ruin the world any more then the abolishment of slavery did.

Personally I couldn’t care one way or the other which way the issue plays out. However one thing I know is that all things change. People either don’t like change or they are afraid of it but that doesn’t stop the inevitable, change will occur, sometimes for the better and sometimes for the worse.

Thanks for the article
LT

What is the world coming to ? I guess I am an old fashioned sort of guy since I can't seem to see why some people are inclined to be "gay" ... I am pretty sure I am not a bigot and I am not afraid of "gay" people so I am not a Homophobe... I must just have enough intestinal fortitude to stand my ground when I see something this morally disgusting. I really believe that I shouldn't have homosexual lifestyle choices being forced upon me and my children on the evening news and primetime TV shows, so I dont watch them or let me children watch them .... This argument could go on forever but one thing is pretty clear to me, there are only two sides to this issue , you are either for or against it .... there are no in between or gray areas .... If you dont have to the morals to stand up against something that is morally wrong , than you might as well be on the other side of the fence..... In my eyes Tolerance and Acceptance are pretty much the same thing when it comes to moral issues...... Just my opinion... Von Warner

That's exactly how I felt during the race riots. I didn't like my kids having to decide whether to be black or white so I didn't let them watch television, etc. :rolleyes:

Oh, you mean people are actually born black or white? Wow, who'd a thunk?

I've watched this subject being "debated" on various BB's for a little while now. Of all the posts pro and con, I think this one sums up my position better than any other.

I hope Crabbait from the ifish board doesn't mind me posting it here.

Originally posted by Crabbait:

Some things don't deserve a vote because having the majority does not make them right. If a majority decided that it is alright to own people would that make it right?

Call it a civil union if it makes you feel better. People deserve the right to visit their partners in the hospital (as "family"). They deserve the order of law when dividing jointly purchased belongings. They deserve to inherit property in the event of a partner's death (like any other spouse).

One of the best things about America is that it protects its citizens from the religion of some of its citizens. It is called "freedom". We have the right to practice any religion. We do not have the right to force the rule of that religion into the rule of law. Otherwise we would have a "Mulah" or an "Ayotollah" instead of a President.

Allowing two unrelated people to join in a lawful union does not open the door to the union of people and animals, or of related people, or of people and other minor people, or of people an inanimate objects. Feverish, high pitched, oft repeated orations do not change this fact.

Regardless of strongly held belief, there is no such thing as "choice of sexual preference". We are attracted to who we are attracted to and no amount of "choice" is going to change that. Men who are attracted to men and women who are attracted to women are as repulsed by the thought of being with a member of the opposite sex as hetrosexuals are of being with someone of the same sex. We did not get to choose, and our children will not get to choose, so be ready for that. Hatred and intolerance simply demonstrate our ignorance of biological fact that can be proved in any highschool biology class.

As for children being "exposed" to this, the sooner the better. It is very healthy for them to know that not all people are the same and that who they partner with is only a small part of who they are as people. The sooner that they know that people can believe differently, live differently, look differently and still be perfectly good people the fewer wars we may have to fight for no good reason in the future.

They are here. They are different. They deserve to be here and deserve the same protection under the law. If this illicits a strong emotional reaction I suggest that you think about it more and feel about it less.

I can pretty much go along with the first 4 paragraphs (although with a different interpretation of the 1st paragraph), but after that…

The age-old debate of “genes vs. environment” is what mainly gave birth to the behavioral sciences. Are newborns a “blank slate” to become a product of what they hear, see & feel or is all their behavior completely predestined? If you are in either of these camps (like Crabbait) you are in a tiny minority. Most behavioral scientists believe that we are a combination of both. Most also feel that few (if any) humans are 100% masculine or feminine.

Let’s say that homosexuality was the norm -- 90% of the population was gay. If you honestly think that kids raised in an environment where homosexuality was encouraged were not more likely to turn out gay, then I have a bridge in Brooklyn that you may be interested in buying.

I guess I am going to have to go over to ifish and straighten those guys out…

There is NO LAW which isn't open to legal interpretation. Why do you think we have appeals courts, circuit courts, and the Supreme Court?

That being said, I agree that skirting a law that is on the books already is shady politics. Change the law first.

IMO, when it comes to higher cognitive function such as language, self-awareness and a sense of right and wrong, I firmly believe more in "nurture" (good parenting) over "nature".

Sexual drive however is a function of the more primitive part of the brain, instinctual if you will. How old were you Slab when you first discovered that looking at girls gave you a funny, nervous, awkward feeling inside? Did you feel you were in control of theses feelings, or did they just sorta' happen?

Are you telling me that you learned to like girls from watching your parents, older siblings, or neighbors across the street?

I bet if you thought about it for a minute, you'd realize that the crush you had on Mary Anne in the 5th grade probably would have happened regardless whether you were raised by Adam and Eve or Adam and Steve.

Mary Ann was a little hottie, but Billy Boy didn't do much for me. Maybe it was the mustache...

doug,

We all do have equal protection under the law. You have just as much right as I do to marry a woman!

Talk about a stretch. geesh....where does it end?

As far health issues not being a factor your wrong! homo sex is responsible for the rapid spread of AIDS.

The founders of this Country were christians and I seriously doubt they would have anything to do with legaly recognizing gay sex partners. I can see healthcare taking a big big hit with all the new coverage for aids carriers.

Micro

Actually the founding fathers were Deists.

"A Deist is one who believes in the existence of a God or supreme being but denies revealed religion, basing his belief on the light of nature and reason."

Also IMO religious beliefs should have nothing to do with legal rights.

You don't think those same people have health coverage now…..

Oh boy this is going to get complicated.

our founding fathers were christian though they based most law as "deist" so they were not establishing any religon when the constitution was drafted.

And yes I believe there are many homos out there dying from aids with no coverage.

Aunty we dont have to come up with solutions. there is no compromise! Butt piracy just aint right and is not lagally sanctioned by the government. If homos dont like it they can get the F*** out!

I am digusted and putrified by them. Its in our schools, on are tvs, and in the news .

I for one will never be desensitized to that extreme form of immorallity!

Micro

I feel sorry for you that you cannot see it in your heart to allow others to be themselves.

Hating a gay person for being gay is no different then hating a black man for being black.

Now this is not a personal attack it is just to prove a point. What if I said I was tired of guys wearing camo coats holding bass.

Should I be able to tell him to get the F-out as you would say?

While I was out of town I watched the Bill Maher show even though I view him as a pompous know it all kind of guy....he said the following:

" A guy better not put anything in another guy unless it is a bullit."

Kids are like pets in some respect. They do imitate things in their immediate environment. If a new baby was watching
Adam and Steve kiss and all the other trappings of being "gay" that child will grow up thinking it is the norm. I will do whatever I can to help shield my grandson from the sick behavior I believe to be harmful to him in the long run. Being gay is not normal in my opinion and all the secular brain washing being forced down our throats by the tiny vocal minority in this country won't change my mind.

And by the way...tell a black person about the comparison made here about gay marriage and blacks. The huge majority of blacks are against gay marriage. They realize that a stable home with a father and a mother is what is going to save their crumbling families. They have the alarming statistics to prove it. Being tolerant of gay marriage is not the same as being tolerant of other races.

What this is all about is attaching legitimacy to abhorant behavior. Gays always seem to flaunt their gayness which I interpret as crying out for accdeptance in a society that is over 90% against their lifestyle.

For those of you who think others are over reacting on this topic - I'd just like to point out a bigger picture. Those behind this would like us to have warm fuzzies about their intentions and agenda and compare it to a civil rights issue that we should all support. I must admit it is tempting logic. But to those who doubt there really is a bigger agenda at work, her is just another example of a bigger, and more dangerous angle that is being worked. The target - our kids

***************************
Hurricane GLSEN
Marc Fey (back to web version) | Send

September 28, 2003
About the time Hurricane Isabel reached landfall on Thursday, September 18, 2003, a group of activists, educators, and junior high and senior high school students gathered in Washington, D.C. for the annual GLSEN (Gay Lesbian Straight Education Network) National Conference. Like the havoc that Isabel wrought on communities in North Carolina, GLSEN threatens to produce far greater
What I witnessed during these brief 72 hours left me with the conviction that GLSEN is a cultural hurricane that’s hitting our schools with the kind of force and devastation that may take years to fully assess. Let me try to paint the picture.

GLSEN is a self-styled pro-gay education network targeting our kids in public schools.
The danger is in how they seek to accomplish this mission. In effect, GLSEN’s objective is to cut out parents and adult leaders in the child’s life who don’t a gree with the LGBT agenda. Every speaker at the national conference made this message very clear.

On Friday night founder and co-director Kevin Jennings defiantly declared, “Neither rain, nor wind, not even a hurricane will stop us from bringing justice to our schools!”

A clinic earlier that day was entitled “Strategies for Responding to Homophobic Bigotry: Everybody’s Business!” The title accurately set forth this point in their agenda-- to make the GLBT agenda everyone’s agenda, yours and mine included. And the strategy is to get to our kids.

It’s not just that they are generously funded, though they certainly are. Revenues for 2001 were $3.35 million, and this year’s conference was liberally supported by Kodak, Levi Strauss, Microsoft, and IBM whose logos were emblazoned on banners, brochures, and conference freebies. For the close to 500 people in attendance, including about 100 junior high and senior high students, the companies hoped to capture this powerful purchasing sector—gays and youth—arguably two of the most powerful buying sectors in America today.

No, GLSEN’s success comes from a carefully planned message that homosexuality, bisexuality, and transgender identity issues represent the next human rights and civil rights battle, on par with Martin Luther King, Jr and other reformers great work of the last 200 years. Again, this message is targeted at our kids. Today, GLSEN sponsors about 1700 campus student clubs, called GSA’s (Gay Straight Alliances) promoting LGBT issues. Click link for more.

Hurricane GLSEN article

********************************

More info taken from another site and reposted here:

What is GLSEN Hiding?
Coalition Calls on Homosexual Education Group to Make Its Sessions Available to Public

WASHINGTON, D.C. — The Culture & Family Institute, an affiliate of Concerned Women for America, and 11 other pro-family groups today called on a homosexual education group to make a record of its annual conference available to the public — including tapes of all sessions — so that parents can learn what pro-“gay” school programs are being promoted in the name of tolerance.
“If GLSEN [Gay, Lesbian, Straight Education Network] has nothing to hide, then make it easy for parents to find out what’s going on at these conferences,” LaBarbera said. “We know that GLSEN is not honest with students about the serious health risks associated specifically with homosexual behavior.”
“GLSEN is now recognized by several major school districts and state education systems as an ‘official’ consulting group on homosexuality-related issues. Yet most parents and education professionals have no idea of the harmful agendas advanced by this organization,” said CFI senior policy analyst Peter LaBarbera.
GLSEN is holding its annual conference in Los Angeles October 4-6. Among the scheduled sessions are:
“Mobilizing Young Same Gender Loving Men”;
“Responding Effectively to the Right Wing” — an all-day session led by staffers with Political Research Associates, a leftist group that specializes in providing misleading propaganda about conservatives to the media;
“Transgender Mind, Body, Spirit” — an all-day session. GLSEN celebrates cross-dressing and distributes classroom materials such as “Jesse’s Dream Skirt” and “In Mommy’s High Heels” to elementary-age boys.
“Using Music to Deconstruct the Heterosexist Meaning of Family”;
Keynote speaker Brian Graden of MTV — MTV is a leader in glamorizing homosexual behavior to young people through programs such as Undressed and The Real World.
Joining Concerned Women for America and CFI in calling on GLSEN to make tapes of all its sessions available are the following pro-family groups representing millions of Americans: Focus on the Family; American Family Association; Toward Tradition; Traditional Values Coalition; Citizens for Community Values; Parents Rights Coalition; Mission:America; Family Policy Network; Christian Civic League of Maine; Pro-Family Law Center; and Campaign for California Families.

http://www.lafalce.com/library/family/2002-10-03_pr_hs-in-schools.shtml

Perhaps some of you going into battle with this glsen group should make contact with some of these outside groups who are also fighting glsen.

http://www.city-journal.org/html/13_2_queering_the_schools.html
Very interesting article.

http://www.missionamerica.com/stoppflag1.php
Seem to be several groups trying to stop glsen.

http://www.georgiaeagle.org/index.php?where=insight&ID=76
Article on the NEA and GLSEN

http://www.narth.com/docs/glsen.html
Another one

http://www.mfc.org/
Minnesota Family Council

http://www.ccv.org/images/GLSEN_Corruption_Crime.PDF
Excellent article. In PDF format.

http://www.usiap.org/Viewpoints/Zgen/NEAAndGLSENSeekToStifleFreeSpeech.html
Good Article

GLSEN (pronounce "Glisten") is moving fast and strong on WA state and many others. They often find a willing team with our school district and leaders. When they don't, they are ready with threats to sue for harrassment and hate crimes (whether the particular shcool has issues in that area or not).

GLSEN, Planned Parent Hood, NEA, and other big organizations have a strategy that invovles 'sexualizing' our young children. Not just accepting or tolerating the gay lifecycle, but exploring it at a young age.

Planned Parent Hood has a website dedicated to kids called "teanwire". In it they tell our kids how common and normal gay sex is and how it is OK to experimnet with it. They offer in depth detail about ANAL STIMULATION and how it is OK for both gay and straight kids to explore it and how common it is.... Nuff said...

PhishPhreak -

You missed a couple of links to help in the fight:

Local Support

Another Christian Organization

Christian FAQs

goharley, very well done

Nice try....

You can laugh if off all you want. Doesn't mean it isn't true or not happening.

I get the impression a few of you are all too familiar with the 'ins and outs' of anal sex. But I'll kick anyones ass who tries to explain in great detail how enjoyable anal sex is and that exploring and accepting it is just part of being a tolerant and accepting person....

Here is a recent article you may find interesting.
http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewEducation.asp?Page=\Education\archive\EDU20000504a.html

GLSEN is very active in this state and is pushing our local schools to teach their propganda.

PhishPhreak,

How do you feel about lesbian sex where anal doesn't come into play?

Recording someone's voice without their consent or knowledge is against the law.

Education and information is a good thing. There are some here that are quite indicative of a lack of education resources pertaining to human sexuality. Like knowing the difference between homosexuality and pedophilia.

And there are some here that are so arrogantly conceited they automatically assume a gay person will find them attractive.

Those same people may need to stop and realize that in the grand scheme of things, God may very well find those two loving individuals in a committed relationship much more in favor than someone who hates them simply for their committment. And while you're thumping your bible, take the time to actually read it and notice the number of references to love, forgiveness, tolerance, and nonjudgment compared to those of persecution and hate.

LOL - bible thumping? I haven't even brought that into this. I have gay friends. I don't hate anyone for being gay. Nice attempt to derail the topic. The old "you religious bigit" red herring just won't cut it. The posts I made earlier were taken from another board and I did not read all the links yet. So what if there was a religious spin on many of them. That does not change the fact of what is happening accross our country - to our schools and in our government.

Sex education is good. I have no issue with it. But it needs to be done by trained experts and at age appropriate levels, and in a way that parents are comfortable with. That is my issue here. I'm not gay bashing or afraid that they may flirt with me or try to recruit me. That is just twisted attempts to avoid the subject matter...

As far as the religious\Christian aspect of it. You are pretty close. But if you look closer, 'tolerance' is not always the same as love and acceptance. For example, I love my kids. But if and when they do something very wrong, I don't just tolerate it, I correct them or even disipline them.

Again, my stance is that it is fine for people to be gay. I'm not trying to change them, and I don't want them trying to change me. I have no issue with what they do as long as they don't try to force it on me, my family, my community, my country.

But back on topc.....

Here is an article worth checking out specifically related to gay marriage:
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/thomassowell/ts20040309.shtml

4salt - are you hitting on me??

I apologize, then. I obviously misunderstood the context of your message. I agree with your analogy of tolerating your kids' behaviour. I was using it in the sense that although I may not agree with what two consenting adults are doing to one another, I've been taught to tolerate their actions if legal.

I think I see your concerns with that organization promoting their agenda in schools. My kids (teenage boys) and I have a pretty open dialogue about sex related issues so I personally don't worry about an organization like that showing up. My kids already know the differences of orientation and the need to tolerate their peers even if they are different.

I can't imagine a school would invite an organization to lecture to junior and high school students on such a controversial subject without first notifying parents. If the students attended the lecture at an outside venue, then the parents should be involved enough to know where their kids are going. No?

I agree. Problem is, they are doing that in our schools, and have programs targeted at K-12.

The group GLSEN has been brought to my attention recently by someone who has kids in a school near me. Apprently they had a "tolerance" video and related materials that they were going to present to the kids during school.

Their way of notification was to include a short notice on a back page of a school news letter that simply said "video" and discussion on "tolerance". Nothing else. A few parents became curious and ended up opening up a huge can of worms.

I don't mean to come across like 'the sky is falling', but after doing some research on this, I'm amazed at what is being targeted at our kids, with the consent and approval of the school\government (in the name of tolerance, most don't bother to look into the details).

Phish Phreak, the solution to this problem is to work within the system. You and your neighbors need to ask to speak at the next school board meeting. At that time, request a review panel to screen all new videos . Any guest speakers should be required to produce an outline for review by the committee. The committee should be composed of parents, teachers and board members. This would stop groups like you have mentioned as well as the religious groups from forcing their agendas on a captive group of children. The only exception would be a high school Social Studies elective that parents and students understood was to include controversial topics. Would that be truly politically correct? Dang, did I make a right turn somewhere ?

Depends.... If you happen to be of the female persuasion and look like Heidi Klum well... just don't tell my wife OK?

You did seem to have... shall we say... an "unusual" preoccupation with all things anal.

harley...I went to one of those web sites you suggested and found this:

"Lesbians are just female ***s. They're sinners, too. See Romans 1:26."

Is that true? WOW....

Wow. Truthfully, I never read much of those sites. Those even make you look liberal, Grandpa.

Phish; sounds to me like the school was WAY wrong for that move. I don't blame parents for being upset when it looks like their being left out of the loop. I also think the parents should be given the option whether their kid should attend or not. Not all kids are ready for that kind of information at the same age and a parent should decide when it's time, not the school.

Harley - that is exactly my issue.

Doug - that is just what the parents are trying to do (not my kids school this time, but just over the hill). It would be great if it was as easy as that sounds though. I know in some schools it really is - but in others, like the one in question here, it is made very difficult and not encouraged...

Phish Phreak, "Vote and vote often", school board members are elected, if they don't listen, work to replace them with someone who does. Besides if you don't , who is going to cancel my" left wing liberal vote." I can see it now, schools teaching kids to be non-judgmental and tolerant of differences.........

Good morning. We want to apply for a marriage license."

"Names?"

"Tim and Jim Jones."

"Jones? Are you related? I see a resemblance."

"Yes, we're brothers."

"Brothers? You can't get married."

"Why not? Aren't you giving marriage licenses to same gender couples?"

"Yes, thousands. But we haven't had any siblings. That's incest!"

"Incest?" No, we are not gay."

"Not gay? Then why do you want to get married?"

"For the financial benefits, of course. And we do love each other.

Besides, we don't have any other prospects."

"But we're issuing marriage licenses to gay and lesbian couples who've been denied equal protection under the law. If you are not gay, you can get married to a woman."

"Wait a minute. A gay man has the same right to marry a woman as I have.

But just because I'm straight doesn't mean I want to marry a woman. I want to marry Jim."

"And I want to marry Tim, Are you going to discriminate against us just because we are not gay?"

"All right, all right. I'll give you your license. Next."

"Hi. We are here to get married."

"Names?"

"John Smith, Jane James, Robert Green, and June Johnson."

"Who wants to marry whom?"

"We all want to marry each other."

"But there are four of you!"

"That's right. You see, we're all bisexual. I love Jane and Robert, Jane loves me and June, June loves Robert and Jane, and Robert loves June and me.

All of us getting married together is the only way that we can express our sexual preferences in a marital relationship."

"But we've only been granting licenses to gay and lesbian couples."

"So you're discriminating against bisexuals!"

"No, it's just that, well, the traditional idea of marriage is that it's just for couples."

"Since when are you standing on tradition?"

"Well, I mean, you have to draw the line somewhere."

"Who says? There's no logical reason to limit marriage to couples.

The more the better. Besides, we demand our rights! The mayor says the constitution guarantees equal protection under the law. Give us a marriage license!"

"All right, all right. Next."

"Hello, I'd like a marriage license."

"In what names?"

"David Deets."

"And the other man?"

"That's all. I want to marry myself."

"Marry yourself? What do you mean?"

"Well, my psychiatrist says I have a dual personality, so I want to marry the two together. Maybe I can file a joint income-tax return."

"That does it! I quit!! You people are making a mockery of marriage!!"

LOL, I read this after I posted on the gay marriange Poll. Seems we were thinking alone the same lines