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#266618 - 05/10/04 11:17 PM War on terror v. War in Iraq
h2o Offline
Carcass

Registered: 10/31/02
Posts: 2227
Loc: Portland
Is there anyone left believing that they are the same battle?

Are we fighting terrorists in Iraq? Its been well over a year since were led to believe there might be a connection and we have heard NOTHING remotely supporting that assertion since. Oh wait...there was a mural. The big terrorist connection is a mural

My feeling is that those troops could be put to better use rooting out Osama Bin Laden in Afghanistan, judging by what I've seen on the news lately we are critically undermanned in that region, at least in terms of accomplishing the objective. IMO, prosecuting the war in Iraq has shifted the focus off of the 'war on terror' and made us more vulnerable as a result.

In a post-9/11 world, that is inexcusable.

Crazy, whacko, radical, communist, socialist stuff huh?
_________________________
"Christmas is an American holiday." - micropterus101

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#266619 - 05/10/04 11:48 PM Re: War on terror v. War in Iraq
grandpa2 Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 06/04/03
Posts: 1796
Loc: Brier, Washington
The war on terror or the war against radical Islam is global and it is a war pitting the culture of those who value life and those who value death. Draw a line in the sand anywhere on the globe you want. If you don 't agree there is a war as I simplified it then it wouldn't matter if it was Iraq , Iran , Syria or Afghanistan or even New York City....You would be against it. Standing up and fighting is much tougher than hiding. After 9/11 we obviously cannot hide in our own country anymore. Convert to Islam and give up on Israel and you might win some friends but I bet they would still ultimately kill you and your family if they had half a chance.
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#266620 - 05/11/04 01:08 AM Re: War on terror v. War in Iraq
h2o Offline
Carcass

Registered: 10/31/02
Posts: 2227
Loc: Portland
so then you are saying the war is not against 'terror' it is against 'radical islam'?

Certainly not how it was billed now, is it?
_________________________
"Christmas is an American holiday." - micropterus101

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#266621 - 05/11/04 12:54 PM Re: War on terror v. War in Iraq
jeff'e'd Offline
Spawner

Registered: 07/10/00
Posts: 978
Loc: Snohomish, WA USA
Grandpa,

You're not suggesting that we take on the whole middle east, are you?

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#266622 - 05/12/04 03:25 AM Re: War on terror v. War in Iraq
grandpa2 Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 06/04/03
Posts: 1796
Loc: Brier, Washington
Only the radical islamists who interpret their religion to mean they must kill all infidels (us) and become martyrs. The facist regime in Iran is very unpopular with the citizens of Iran and a pluralistic new free society in Iraq might send a message to the Imams to move on and leave their country to the people. Giving in to the terroists now would surely prolong the war on terror for many more uneccesary years. Sucking up to the terrorists will also ultimately get us killed.
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#266623 - 05/12/04 11:25 AM Re: War on terror v. War in Iraq
Theking Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 4908
Loc: The right side of the line
Well there is a video playing on Islamic TV that shows masked killers ,one claiming to be a high ranking Al Queda scumbag , chopping the head of a US civilian in Iraq. Maybe thats a little clue of what we are dealing with. I know it;s easy to sit 3000 miles from the WTC and many thousands of miles from the middle East and imagine that everything will work itself out. Those days have been over for a long time. Rumsfeld said it well some time ago. The only way to stop terrorist is to kill more than you make. Watch that video and then tell me how you feel.
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Liberalism is a mental illness!

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#266624 - 05/12/04 11:44 AM Re: War on terror v. War in Iraq
stlhead Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 6830
Why does the video upset you king? Wasn't it you who said there are more drunk driving deaths in the US every year than US lives lost in Iraq so far? What's one more overseas war death to you?
_________________________
"You learn more from losing than you do from winning." Lou Pinella

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#266625 - 05/12/04 12:13 PM Re: War on terror v. War in Iraq
Theking Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 4908
Loc: The right side of the line
I would treat drunk drivers and terrorist the same because they are the same. You would have a 1000 shades of grey between the two and 50 yeras of talk about the problem as well.
_________________________
Liberalism is a mental illness!

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#266626 - 05/12/04 01:37 PM Re: War on terror v. War in Iraq
goharley Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/27/02
Posts: 3276
Loc: U.S. Army
Quote:
Originally posted by Theking:
Watch that video and then tell me how you feel.
I watched it and feel even more strongly that Bush, Rumsfeld, et al, put us into a situation that they have no clue how to get us out of. They've exasperated a situation that the US could have handled with significant less loss of life and the billions spent used to increase the security here at home.

So, some al Qaeda are scumbag because they killed an American prisoner. Is that how you feel about the US soldiers that have killed 25 Iraqi prisoners? Remember, there are no shades of grey.
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#266627 - 05/12/04 01:47 PM Re: War on terror v. War in Iraq
Theking Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 4908
Loc: The right side of the line
GH,

Yes killing unarmed captives makes anyone a scumbag. Did you forget about Daniel Pearl? That was in Pakistan , how about in Isreal or should we go all the way back to the Olympics? Gh you can justify their actions all you want by blaming Bush etc it just continues to make it more than clear that you have no clue what the issues are and what we are up against.
_________________________
Liberalism is a mental illness!

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#266628 - 05/12/04 02:15 PM Re: War on terror v. War in Iraq
goharley Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/27/02
Posts: 3276
Loc: U.S. Army
The only thing becoming clearer with each post is your clouded thought process. Maybe some of that organic food you're living on is psilocybin. \:\)

My career keeps me pretty much intune with what we're really up against and what the real issues are. And that's all I got to say 'bout that. ;\)
_________________________
Tent makers for Christie, 2016.

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#266629 - 05/12/04 02:17 PM Re: War on terror v. War in Iraq
Theking Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 4908
Loc: The right side of the line
"My career keeps me pretty much intune with what we're really up against and what the real issues are. And that's all I got to say 'bout that"

Is that kinda like Kerrys foreign leaders endorsement there Forrest Gump?
_________________________
Liberalism is a mental illness!

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#266630 - 05/12/04 02:32 PM Re: War on terror v. War in Iraq
jeff'e'd Offline
Spawner

Registered: 07/10/00
Posts: 978
Loc: Snohomish, WA USA
You know, I think everyone needs to take their partisan hats off and think about what needs to be done here. I was truly impressed on Friday by Senetor Lieberman, who had the courage to say during the hearing on prison fiasco, "After 9-11, the terrorists didn't appologize for the deaths that they caused." While we need to follow due process and get after those who willfully violated military standards during the "interrigations," as John McCain has said many times, "we need to hold ourselves to a higher standard" than the terrorists to maintain what America stands for, we must not lose sight that we are at war with the terrorists.

Now, the discussion is rapidly turning to whether we need a draft because of what a huge drain this war in Iraq is on our resources. I forget the General's name, who publically said that we needed more troups from the outset of the Iraq war and was relieved of command by Wolfowitz and company, but the point is we are where we are and we need a long term strategy as to the best way to handle the Iraq War and the terrorists. If we had done better planning for the after Sadam phase that we are in, quite possibly events like what happened in the prison could have been prevented.

My personal belief is that had we not invaded Iraq and used a more selective approach with Special Forces and the like, that we would be making faster progress than what is currently happening. But since we can't go back and undo this, we now have an escallating war in Iraq and even more invigotrated terrorist network to deal with.

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#266631 - 05/12/04 02:52 PM Re: War on terror v. War in Iraq
Theking Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 4908
Loc: The right side of the line
Jeff,

Great points. I think we need to back this thing 100% as a country or walk away and accept what happens and deal with it. This second guessing at all levels is causing problems. In WWII we knew who our enemy was. In vietnam and the war on terror it's hard for people to tell.
_________________________
Liberalism is a mental illness!

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#266632 - 05/12/04 03:17 PM Re: War on terror v. War in Iraq
h2o Offline
Carcass

Registered: 10/31/02
Posts: 2227
Loc: Portland
"Only the radical islamists who interpret their religion to mean they must kill all infidels (us) and become martyrs. The facist regime in Iran is very unpopular with the citizens of Iran and a pluralistic new free society in Iraq might send a message to the Imams to move on and leave their country to the people. Giving in to the terroists now would surely prolong the war on terror for many more uneccesary years. Sucking up to the terrorists will also ultimately get us killed."

Iran is the perfect example of how to work to change a regime using western ideals. THE most powerful way to choke out terrorism at its root....

Isolate them, sanction them.

Tell them clearly where they need to be to join the rest of the world at the table...

When sufficient progress is made diplomatically...

Bring in the west to educate (this is critical) and medicate them, building trust with the youngest generation.

Let bubble for fifty years...

In Iran it helps that that the parents of the youth now 'rebelling' were raised under western influence.

Iraq has never had that benefit. We have created a situation there that allows the Imams of which you speak to paint us as bullies. By occupying them WE CREATED THAT SITUATION AND NO ONE IN THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION WILL ADMIT THAT!!
_________________________
"Christmas is an American holiday." - micropterus101

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#266633 - 05/12/04 04:15 PM Re: War on terror v. War in Iraq
Theking Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 4908
Loc: The right side of the line
The clerics have been making those statements since Isreal became a state. They just turned up the volume recently. No liberal looking to blame someone will admit that.
_________________________
Liberalism is a mental illness!

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#266634 - 05/12/04 04:42 PM Re: War on terror v. War in Iraq
h2o Offline
Carcass

Registered: 10/31/02
Posts: 2227
Loc: Portland
you are wrong.

anyone that pays attention to the news knows that this is what radical islam has been saying for far longer than Israel has been a state.

we lanced that boil when we decided to invade Iraq assuming we could contain the infection.

we were wrong.
_________________________
"Christmas is an American holiday." - micropterus101

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#266635 - 05/12/04 05:14 PM Re: War on terror v. War in Iraq
Theking Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 4908
Loc: The right side of the line
H20,

You are way confused. Who ever said that Iraq would end Islamic terrorism? Show me some quotes. I remember Bush saying it was a part of a long greater war on terror. Anyone that thought for a minute that invading Iraq would do anything but inflame Islam needs to check into Western State. Invading Iraq was just walking up and whacking the beehive with a stick. Showing moderate( if you can call fence sitters moderates) that there is a choice vs living under the thumb of whabbi clerics and despotic dictators was a parallel goal. The terrorists and their supporters are not in one palce under one flag( execpt Isalm) and we will have to whack a few more bee hives to get them out in the open before its all said and done. It's just starting not in the middle or the end as you fools think. Walking away or not admiting it only helps them as they want one thing The US and it's allies gone from the historical boundries of the Ottoman empire and Isreal from the face of the earth. Not going to happen so get used to it. Scary Kerry may be foolin the left into thinking he can negotiate this thing but all he is doing is delaying the pain and allowing them to set the terms and picking the battlefield. Hard to do when you have to hide in a different hole everynight because Uncle Sam is peeking over the ridge with night vision and the death ray as they call it.
_________________________
Liberalism is a mental illness!

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#266636 - 05/12/04 05:48 PM Re: War on terror v. War in Iraq
Dave D Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/04/01
Posts: 3640
Loc: Gold Bar
Quote:
The only thing becoming clearer with each post is your clouded thought process. Maybe some of that organic food you're living on is psilocybin.
_________________________
A.K.A
Lead Thrower

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#266637 - 05/12/04 06:17 PM Re: War on terror v. War in Iraq
h2o Offline
Carcass

Registered: 10/31/02
Posts: 2227
Loc: Portland
'us fools'

good stuff and straight from the heart no doubt.

keep that stuff up, please. it makes 'the right' look like SUCH uniters.

:rolleyes:
_________________________
"Christmas is an American holiday." - micropterus101

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