Let the discrediting and cries of liberal bias media begin. The New Yorker is running this story as a fact.

Today\'s New Yorker on Abu Ghraib

Rummy and Bush must think we are pretty stupid if we are going to believe seven enlisted men acted of their own accord committing these crimes.

Seriously have you seen an interview with Lynndie whatsherface? Does anyone really believe she was capable of knowing enough about the Iraqi culture to put her captors in the most humiliating poses imaginable, those that offend the very fabric of islamic culture?

Bush and Rummy stepped in it here and I don't think they make a hose big enough to wash it off.

I heard one of the ex-soldier commentators on tv news today pointing out that he could shoot one of these terrorists in the head 23 times and be called a war hero....if the prisoner lived and he stripped him nude and took his picture he could be court martialed....So H2O clap clap clap your hands in glee that your gotcha game is working....how many American service members will be innecessarily killed in the future because of your crusade to blame the US military and exhalt the enemy....Reminds me so much of Viet Nam and how the Jane Fondas and John Kerry's of the world gave comfort to the enemy and got American GIs killed in the process....Oh and then spit on the ones who came home alive....

I remember the Americans that these Iraqis, Syrians and Iranians strung up and burned and the guy who got his head sawed off on tv...I would throw these animals to the hogs and I certainly wouldn't apologize for them and snivel about how they are being treated...

What do you want to do ? Set them up in a posh hotel with room service and color tv? probably....get them ACLU attorneys and pay for their defense....unbelieveable....

Again, see what you wish in my writings...

I don't blame soldiers for following orders. The military is clearly and distinctly NOT to blame on this one, especially not the soldiers that will invariably be held out to be the bad guys. Read the link...they were following orders!

If this story turns out to be true and the orders to carry out these acts truly did come from the highest levels of our government will you be making excuses for them? Making excuses for that which the entire congress of the united states and nearly every american down to the man/woman condemned as abhorrent, the epitome of anti-american.

I'll bet you will.

This isn't politics or a game, it goes way beyond that. This is the future of the united states...how ironic would it be if it turns out to be true that Bush's own 'security' policy led to what has to be seen as the biggest terror recruitment weapon to come down the pike since the creation of israel?

Who on the right is listening? or even cares? If this is true there's no way you can argue that Bush has led to safer America. Well ...I suppose you can and will but that is clearly not what the evidence suggests.

REMEMBER! your president just went on national television repeatedly condemning these acts. Was he lying gpa? Wouldn't he have had to approve any policy change as significant as the one suggested in the article?

If it hadn't led to the senseless of of life on a grand scale the fall of this keystone cops administration would be comical.

Instead, its a frickin american tragedy.

Oh and for the record...

"I would throw these animals to the hogs and I certainly wouldn't apologize for them and snivel about how they are being treated..."

When I call you a racist grandpa its because of statements like the one above.

Are you defending the actions of those in the photos on the basis that that kind of treatment is what America stands for? You are saying that every us senator and representative is off base in condemning them? If so, please explain...only this time don't talk about the barbary of the enemy, this isn't about what they did. This about what WE did, apparently at the behest of our highest leadership.

I'll bet it makes you proud to be american.

Bush was a lame duck out of the gate until 911...this "war" on terrorism is all he has.

I think the treatment of prisoners at the iraqi jail was stupid and obviously not right. The flap created afterwards is also stupid after a point. So many have taken up this cause and just another arrow in their quiver to shoot down an administration they oppose.

Let me ask you Aunty...what if your husband was the one burned to a crisp and handing upside down from the bridge in Iraq? Would you argue that he deserved it? Or would you be pissed and want revenge? Really....Stow your personal attack venom for a bit and think about it . You don't have to be for the war of apathetic for the plight of innocent Iraqis to be upset by that.

Give the white sheet , supremecist crap a rest too... can you say hackneyed?

Main Entry: hack·neyed
Pronunciation: 'hak-nEd
Function: adjective
Date: 1749
: lacking in freshness or originality
synonym see TRITE

"You may not like it, but my views are the views of a moderate, not an extremist liberal."

It's not that he doesn't like it, but he has demonstrated on this board on numerous occassions he is only capable of painting people with one brush.

"I think the treatment of prisoners at the iraqi jail was stupid and obviously not right."

If it turns out your president authorized the actions in the photo, will you still support him? Would you consider that a decision that has imperiled the lives of soldiers on the ground? How about us citizens across the world? If you answer any way other than yes, you are deluding yourself...

You keep bringing up how the enemy treats our men and women when captured as if that somehow justifies the policies that created the atmosphere in which these abuses were carried out. This isn't about the enemy, gpa. Its about who we are as a nation.

You didn't even read the story did you grandpa? If its true, and I believe it is, Rummie authorized 'the stupid and not right' treatment'. He's the one who disgraces the sacrifices made by our own POW's to keep the world free from this kind of mistreatment. He's the one who disgraces the dead us veterans that sacrificed their lives so in the name of these cherished american values.

Turning his back on those very same values upon which he so proudly stands will undoubtedly go down in history as one of the stupidest decisions ever made by any functionary in government.

The reaction from the soldiers in Iraq was nearly universal to a man. Disgust......and the realization that attacks against them will likely increase. Who gets the blame for creating the situation?

The media?

The whistleblower?

AuntyM?

Face it, you voted for a poor leader that has lied to you, misrepresented the truth, avoided telling you how much money will spend on this war and created policies that endanger the lives of our soldiers.

Syurely, even the staunchest of republicans can see that there is merit to what I am saying.

Except gpa. He'd rather wrap himself up in the flag and clutch his Bible while going down with the ship. Perhaps its better that way.....

I wonder how seriously John McCain takes it, having been captured and treated badly himself....BY THE ENEMY!!

It's going away everywhere but in the media.
Quit watching TV and reading papers and you will not hear about it. My friends and assoicates never bring it up. It serves a political purpose for the left so they will ride the horse into the dirt. Even Powell said this AM that theis merits a blip on the radar screen vs. the beheading of Berg. He wants to know where the Islamic outrage is and points to severe issues in Islamic society that is directly reflective of the lack of concern for this act.

Elvis - Let me take a slightly different tack on the Abu Gharib vs. Nick Berg story (I know, you are shocked that I would have a different take ). My point is simple - the horrific, animalistic, basta*ds that beheaded Nick Berg deserve to be hunted down and killed - no question. However, I can't really do anything about them other than to support the folks that are doing the hunting down and killing. Now, American troops (maybe even American Cabinet members) I can do something about. These folks work for me and I daresay that my thoughts and beliefs have a great deal more impact upon them than on the Islamic extremists that beheaded Nick Berg. So, as much as the right wing wants to marry the two issues and then state - "See, they are worse than us!!" - I can't buy into it. Two seperate issues, both extremely important. One, I can do something about directly, the other is far more out of my control.

Eddie,

You can do something about both but you CHOOSE to address one and not the other. If you and other Americans addressed your outrage at the Berg beheading proportionate to your outrage at the "abuse" issue they would here your outrage in proportion. Since you do not one is escalated above the other.

Elvis, please clarify. Who is the "they" you are referring to in this statement?

"If you and other Americans addressed your outrage at the Berg beheading proportionate to your outrage at the "abuse" issue they would here your outrage in proportion."

Thanks

Eddie,

Elected officals in the US Govt.

Just like they do on most issues where an organized and loud public exists.

Elvis, with that clarification in, I would agree with your previous post. The more fundamental question is could they (the elected officials) have any more impact in finding the guilty than I?

eddie...I heard on the news this morning an interview with the young lady soldier who is seen giving the thumbs up that she and others who did those crazy things to the prisoners thought it was funny looking and that is why they took pictures...likening it to a college hazing....Now in the absence of proof that Rumsfeld planned all those dumb things and signed them into orders for our military at large I think the overwhelming attention given these incidents smells of partisan politics to me. Many in congress we alerted to these abuses in January and February and yet no outrage was heard until the photos hit the news media and the internet...then the photo ops were flying....Such as Teddy Kennedy...saying the prisons were not shut down but under new management....purely partisan attack speech...

So we , then , have the beheading and no such outrage was heard. Condemnation for sure but a measured response only when directly asked.

Because of that lopsided and obviously partisan nature of the debate it is fair to ask where is the outrage for the acts of the Islamists? It smacks of opportunistic partisan politics at its worst.

College hazing huh?

So who do I get ahold of to pledge the Abu-Ghraib house?

Eddie,

Yes but we risk opening up a wider conflict which we are clearly not ready to do as Iraq has proven. Bush is taking so much heat for his second foray into answering this question and it is clear that the understanding is not there with the American people so the will to proceed is following way behind. I mean who honsestly wants to be at war? One side does moe than the other. But regardless of want when the bell rings you have to be willing to fight or accept the consequences. Giving them what they want presents more risk to us than doing what we have to do now.

Oh I am all for getting to the bottom of the stupid stuff done the the prisoners. I think what I am hearing is contradictory but what I saw in the pictures was just plain degrading and stupid. As much as some of us may talk about what we would do to one of those who killed a loved one we wouldn't actually carry any of that out becuase we are civilized I would hope. If some higher ups ordered the stupid behavior then Iam sure that will come out and they will get the ax. I don't think I am disagreeing on this. Just wish the situation would not be siezed upon for politics. The service people overseas cannot be happy with all the bad publicity surrounding their efforts over there.

DanS..just the messenger here....don't agree with the hazing analogy.