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#267963 - 06/14/04 12:37 AM An even handed analysis of Bush
Dave Vedder Offline
Reverend Tarpones

Registered: 10/09/02
Posts: 8379
Loc: West Duvall
Warning this contains adult language.

http://www.blackstarsblog.com/bushin41point2.htm :p :p
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#267964 - 06/14/04 03:34 AM Re: An even handed analysis of Bush
Stew Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 10/31/02
Posts: 305
Loc: Extreme Left of Center
Yeah Dave I think that is a pretty objective view of GW
Thanks for posting it \:D
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#267965 - 06/14/04 10:41 AM Re: An even handed analysis of Bush
grandpa Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 08/18/02
Posts: 1714
Loc: brier,wa
Warning: May contain painful truths

http://www.gop.com/news/Cartoon.aspx?id=680
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#267966 - 06/14/04 10:57 AM Re: An even handed analysis of Bush
Dave Vedder Offline
Reverend Tarpones

Registered: 10/09/02
Posts: 8379
Loc: West Duvall
GP: Thats was too funny.


But this is serious!

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/06/13/bush.criticism/index.html
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#267967 - 06/14/04 12:33 PM Re: An even handed analysis of Bush
Theking Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 4756
Loc: The right side of the line
They are right Bushs policies have hurt our relations with other countries. Countries that ave no interest in our welfare and know that they can only gain in our decline. It's also just the death rattle of the Left. They see that things in this country have gone as far left as they can go for a long time. Now things are swinging back to the middle and they will kick and scram all the way.
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#267968 - 06/14/04 03:19 PM Re: An even handed analysis of Bush
eddie Online   content
Carcass

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 2394
Loc: Valencia, Negros Oriental, Phi...
TK - If you consider GW and his cabal as being "middle", I would truly be scared to see what you consider conservative.
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#267969 - 06/14/04 04:12 PM Re: An even handed analysis of Bush
Theking Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 4756
Loc: The right side of the line
Eddie,

GW is closer to FDR democrats on fiscal policies than true right wing conservatives. Most only think him to be a hardcore conservatir because he is overtly christian. Hardcore conservatives would never allow expansionist govt.
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#267971 - 06/14/04 04:47 PM Re: An even handed analysis of Bush
Theking Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 4756
Loc: The right side of the line
So you are saying a single issue ,the war, makes him a Neocon? go look at the debates and votes leading up to our entry into WWII. Was Clinton a conservative for his War in the Balkans?
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#267973 - 06/14/04 05:23 PM Re: An even handed analysis of Bush
eddie Online   content
Carcass

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 2394
Loc: Valencia, Negros Oriental, Phi...
TK - I would agree with your comments about fiscal conservatism. This guy makes Hubert Humphrey look fiscally conservative. However, when we look at:

The War in Iraq
The Patriot Act
Ashcroft meddling in Oregon's suicide law

we see a brand of radical conservatism that is so far right as to flirt with the lunatic fringe. I'm probably just an old fart, but this guy doesn't meet the definition of conservatism as espoused by Barry Goldwater or even Ronald Reagan. Most true (in my mind) conservatives believe in:

Fiscal responsibility
Limiting the role of Government
Personal responsibility

We've already covered the first one. Bush and gang appear to be in favor of limiting the role of Govt. when it comes to environmental and business rulings. However, they expand the role of Govt. in regards to the "moral" issues and The Patriot Act. Once again, Personal responsibility is a double edged sword with this crew. It totally depends on where the Bush Govt. thinks you're going. Clinton may have been for sale. This group looks like they have been bought and paid for.
_________________________
"You're not a g*dda*n looney Martini, you're a fisherman"

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#267974 - 06/14/04 05:43 PM Re: An even handed analysis of Bush
Theking Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 4756
Loc: The right side of the line
Eddie,

Is it fair to compare Reagan and Goldwater or even Clinton for that matter to GW without 911 to contend with?

Even clinton wanted to go into Iraq and thought it was the right thing to do. What stopped him the polls. I have some problems with the Patriot act . But polls show Americans would give up some freedoms for saftey. besides when whatevcer happens this summer in the US re AlQueda happens you gets the blame for letting it happen? Not JK.

I also think it is fair to criticze and compare the patriot act to environmental law. If you really looked into most environmental law it is just like the patriot act. They dissolves your rights like no other set of laws except those by the IRS. Yet most here think they relate only to industry. Few understand the quadruple safeguards provided by City, County, State and federal requirements. It's easier for Al Queda to work freely in the US than it is for a private landowner to build a farm pond in King county.
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#267975 - 06/14/04 06:14 PM Re: An even handed analysis of Bush
Theking Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 4756
Loc: The right side of the line
Eddie,

You needa new avatar. I thought I was talking with a kid all this time. 50 is old you are right but not as old as dirt ;\)
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#267976 - 06/14/04 07:02 PM Re: An even handed analysis of Bush
grandpa Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 08/18/02
Posts: 1714
Loc: brier,wa
Eddie ...you may be an old fart but you can still

ROCK AND ROLL!!!! It's a long way to the top if ya wanna ROCK AND ROLL!!!

Don't forget those "Lonely Sheepherder Days"
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#267978 - 06/15/04 01:25 AM Re: An even handed analysis of Bush
grandpa Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 08/18/02
Posts: 1714
Loc: brier,wa
New slogan

Democrats are wussies and will only take their hands out of the taxpayer's pockets long enough to raise them over their heads in surrender.

Vote Republican if you don't want to surrender.
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#267979 - 06/15/04 01:30 AM Re: An even handed analysis of Bush
grandpa Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 08/18/02
Posts: 1714
Loc: brier,wa
paleoconservative n. a holder of outdated or old-fashioned conservative beliefs; a long-standing conservative. Also adj.
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#267981 - 06/16/04 10:50 AM Re: An even handed analysis of Bush
grandpa Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 08/18/02
Posts: 1714
Loc: brier,wa
Don't worry KKKK I won't
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#267983 - 06/16/04 12:59 PM Re: An even handed analysis of Bush
Theking Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 4756
Loc: The right side of the line
Wow AM I see Leonardo Dicaprio jumped in to support Michael Moore and you. If JP Patches comes out in support of Farenheit 911 I may have to rethink my position. I never was a registered Patches Pal but I played one in grade school.
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#267984 - 06/16/04 01:32 PM Re: An even handed analysis of Bush
goharley Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/27/02
Posts: 3188
Loc: U.S. Army
Quote:
They are dangerous to the Republic ...
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#267985 - 06/16/04 03:55 PM Re: An even handed analysis of Bush
Rory Bellows Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 1459
Loc: Third stone from the sun
Hey Aunty M,

Did you know that John Kerry actually voted FOR the Patriot Act?--Before he decided he was against it.

That's what's so great about John Kerry--if you don't like his position on an issue, just wait because he'll change it just a soon as one of his focus groups suggests that it would be politically advantages to do so. That's leadership!

And since you brought up the Patriot Act ( the very thing that has helped to enabled our Government to keep us safe from domestic terrorist acts for nearly three years)--Can you name one personal freedom you have lost since it was enacted into law?


Also, I don't know where you got your definition of a neo-conservative; but in my opinion it has become a code word that people who are secretly Anti-Semitic use to label those on the right that who believe and campaign for a strong national defense and support of Israel.


Patriotic Sportsmen for Bush '04


P.S. I would encourage you to read TK's post on how to deal with the Nov. election results.


"If your not a liberal at twenty you have no heart--If your still a liberal at forty you have no brain."
_________________________
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#267986 - 06/16/04 04:12 PM Re: An even handed analysis of Bush
Theking Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 4756
Loc: The right side of the line
Of course she cannot. But she can show you a recyled Vietnam War era arguement about how the president is in cahoots with corporate America to profit from a war and get rich themselves. Yet looking at the Tax data on all the presidents men showed now unexplainable spike in their incomes or networth for 20 years after the war. They used to have the MOB around to blame everything on.
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#267987 - 06/16/04 05:30 PM Re: An even handed analysis of Bush
stlhead Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 6732
If you'd rather choose someone who takes a position and sticks to it beyond all reason and logic then Bush is definitely your man.

The Patriot Act has prevented Terrorism exactly how. No blanket statements. Exactly how and what terrorism has it prevented? Also, name how many people Ashcroft has succesfully prosecuted. Not detained. Successfully prosecuted. You can count them on one hand.
One lost right is the fact that the FBI can now search your home without telling you prior to or afterwards. You do not need to be shown a warrant and you do not need to be present.
I like the Bush ad for idiots.....that Kerry wants to get rid of the Patriot Act which provided the same law enforcement ability against terrorists that were being used against drug dealers. What a bunch of BS.
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#267988 - 06/16/04 05:38 PM Re: An even handed analysis of Bush
Dan S. Offline
It all boils down to this - I'm right, everyone else is wrong, and anyone who disputes this is clearly a dumbfuck.

Registered: 03/07/99
Posts: 16958
Loc: SE Olympia, WA
Quote:
the very thing that has enabled our Government to keep us safe from domestic terrorist acts for nearly three years
What kept us safe before the Patriot Act?
_________________________
She was standin' alone over by the juke box, like she'd something to sell.
I said "baby, what's the goin' price?" She told me to go to hell.

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#267989 - 06/16/04 05:48 PM Re: An even handed analysis of Bush
Theking Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 4756
Loc: The right side of the line
And remember that Kerry voted for the PA before he flopped and said he did not.

I am not a fan of the Patriot Act but I see the need for it. It is preferable to the paranoia we had in WWII where every German and Japanese family was looked at suspiciously.
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#267990 - 06/16/04 05:54 PM Re: An even handed analysis of Bush
Theking Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 4756
Loc: The right side of the line
How we are winning the war on terrorism:

First, we are disrupting terrorist threats, and capturing the terrorists that would carry them out. Over the last two years:

Our intelligence and law enforcement communities, and our partners, both here and abroad, have identified and disrupted over 150 terrorist threats and cells;
Worldwide, nearly two-thirds of al Qaida’s known senior leadership has been captured or killed -- including a mastermind of the September 11th attacks;
Worldwide, more than 3,000 operatives have been incapacitated;
Four terrorist cells in Buffalo, Detroit, Seattle, and Portland (Oregon), have been broken up;
305 individuals have been criminally charged in the United States in terrorism investigations;
Already, 176 individuals have been convicted or have pled guilty in the United States, including shoe-bomber Richard Reid and "American Taliban" John Walker Lindh; and
Over 515 individuals linked to the September 11th investigation have been removed from the United States.
Second, we are gathering and cultivating detailed knowledge on terrorism in the United States:

Hundreds of suspected terrorists have been identified and tracked throughout the United States;
Our human sources of intelligence have increased 40% since 9/11, and the quality of this human intelligence has improved significantly; and
Our counterterrorism investigations have more than doubled since 9/11.


Third, we are gathering information by leveraging criminal charges and long prison sentences. When individuals realize that they face a long prison term, they often try to lessen their prison time by pleading guilty and cooperating with the government.

These individuals have provided critical intelligence about al-Qaida and other terrorist groups, safehouses, training camps, recruitment, and tactics in the United States, and the operations of those terrorists who mean to do Americans harm.
One individual has given us intelligence on weapons stored here in the United States.
Another individual has identified locations in the United States being scouted or cased for potential attacks by al-Qaida.
Fourth, we are dismantling the terrorist financial network. Already the United States Government has:

Designated 36 terrorist organizations;
Frozen $133 million in assets around the world;
Launched 70 investigations into terrorist financing, with 23 convictions or guilty pleas to date; and
Established an FBI Terrorist Financing Operations Section (TFOS) and utilized the Joint Terrorism Task Forces to identify, investigate, prosecute, disrupt, and dismantle terrorist-related financial and fundraising activities.
Fifth, we are using new legal tools to detect, disrupt, and prevent potential terrorist plots. Congress has provided better tools to make sure we are doing all we can, legally and within the bounds of the Constitution, to detect, disrupt, and prevent acts of terror. The PATRIOT Act passed with overwhelming bipartisan majorities, in the Senate by 98-1, and in the House of Representatives by 357-66.

The PATRIOT Act allows investigators to use the tools that were already available to investigate organized crime and drug trafficking. These tools have been used for decades and have been reviewed and approved by the courts.
The PATRIOT Act facilitates information sharing and cooperation among government agencies so that they can better “connect the dots.” In the past, different agencies and departments were collecting data but not sharing it with each other. Now we are able to share that data to prevent future attacks.
The PATRIOT Act updated the law to reflect new technologies and new threats. The Act brought the law up to date with current technology, so we no longer have to fight a digital-age battle with legal authorities left over from the era of rotary telephones.
The PATRIOT Act increased the penalties for those who commit terrorist crimes. Americans are threatened as much by the terrorist who pays for a bomb as by the one who detonates it. That’s why the Act imposed tough new penalties on those who commit and support terrorist operations, both at home and abroad.


Sixth, the Department of Justice is building its long-term counter-terrorism capacity since September 11th:

A nearly three-fold increase in counter-terrorism funds;
Approximately 1,000 new and redirected FBI agents dedicated to counterterrorism and counterintelligence;
250 new Assistant U.S. Attorneys;
66 Joint Terrorism Task Forces;
337% increase in Joint Terrorism Task Force staffing; and
FBI Flying Squads developed for rapid deployment to hot spots worldwide.

http://www.lifeandliberty.gov/subs/a_terr.htm


I know it's all lies and propaganda.
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#267991 - 06/16/04 07:13 PM Re: An even handed analysis of Bush
Rory Bellows Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 1459
Loc: Third stone from the sun
Hey Stlhead,

It looks like Theking is a much faster typist than myself (in replying to your question about how we're safer and what destructive terrorist plans have been uncovered and stopped).

But as far as your concern that the F.B.I. can search a suspected terrorist conspirator home without a warrant--If that potentially helps save one American life from a terrorist act--I have no problem with that what so ever--They can even search my house if they like.

I don't have anything to hide...do you?


Patriotic Sportsmen for Bush '04


"If your not a liberal at twenty you have no heart--If you're still a liberal at forty you have no brain."
_________________________
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#267992 - 06/16/04 07:19 PM Re: An even handed analysis of Bush
Dan S. Offline
It all boils down to this - I'm right, everyone else is wrong, and anyone who disputes this is clearly a dumbfuck.

Registered: 03/07/99
Posts: 16958
Loc: SE Olympia, WA
Ben Franklin wouldn't agree. But he probably just had something to hide.
_________________________
She was standin' alone over by the juke box, like she'd something to sell.
I said "baby, what's the goin' price?" She told me to go to hell.

Bon Scott - Shot Down in Flames

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#267993 - 06/16/04 07:28 PM Re: An even handed analysis of Bush
Rory Bellows Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 1459
Loc: Third stone from the sun
Hey Dan S.,

You asked what kept us safe before the Patriot Act? ( in reply to my assertion that we haven't had a terrorist act in nearly three years).

The answer is nothing (or maybe some luck here and there). Do you remember 9/11/01, the U.S.S Cole bombing or the first bombing of the World Trade Center?


Patriotic Sportsmen for Bush '04


"If your not a liberal at twenty you have no heart--If you're still a liberal at forty you have no brain."
_________________________
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#267994 - 06/16/04 07:30 PM Re: An even handed analysis of Bush
Dan S. Offline
It all boils down to this - I'm right, everyone else is wrong, and anyone who disputes this is clearly a dumbfuck.

Registered: 03/07/99
Posts: 16958
Loc: SE Olympia, WA
Yes I do. Would the PA have prevented them? Who knows?

But I don't know that we're any safer or less safe than we were prior to 9/11.
_________________________
She was standin' alone over by the juke box, like she'd something to sell.
I said "baby, what's the goin' price?" She told me to go to hell.

Bon Scott - Shot Down in Flames

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#267995 - 06/16/04 07:35 PM Re: An even handed analysis of Bush
Rory Bellows Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 1459
Loc: Third stone from the sun
Fair enough--That's an honest answer.
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#267996 - 06/16/04 07:44 PM Re: An even handed analysis of Bush
eddie Online   content
Carcass

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 2394
Loc: Valencia, Negros Oriental, Phi...
SCOWAK said, "I don't have anything to hide...do you?"

Just my bound copy of each of Bill Clinton's Inaguaration speeches and my old, tired, tattered copy of the Constitution. \:D
_________________________
"You're not a g*dda*n looney Martini, you're a fisherman"

R.P. McMurphy - One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest

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#267997 - 06/16/04 08:05 PM Re: An even handed analysis of Bush
Rory Bellows Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 1459
Loc: Third stone from the sun
Hey eddie,

Why would you need to hide those things-- they're perfectly legal. Besides, anyone who quotes R.P. McMurphy can't be that bad.

Patriotic Sportsmen for Bush '04

"If your not a liberal at twenty you have no heart--If you're still a liberal at forty you have no brain."
_________________________
"Yes, I would support raising taxes"--Kanektok Kid

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#267998 - 06/16/04 09:18 PM Re: An even handed analysis of Bush
grandpa Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 08/18/02
Posts: 1714
Loc: brier,wa
[QUOTE] [/QUIf you or TK are truly neocons, then you may indeed, be an enemy to this nation.OTE]

Wow..getting venomous again are we? I don't even know what a "neocon" is. I think it is more of an adjective with negative connotations you toss around in every other post. Frankly I am having trouble understanding where you really stand on your own. You are a reasonable advocate for the angry and pessimistic left but I'm not sure what you really stand for yourself.....really

Oh I almost forgot..."Dangerous" is another overused barb used to attack those who don't agree with your view of the world.....Just like bigot.....just like Hitler....ad infinitum
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#268000 - 06/16/04 09:54 PM Re: An even handed analysis of Bush
grandpa Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 08/18/02
Posts: 1714
Loc: brier,wa
Unfortunately your posts are regressing and are progrssively getting more pathetic every time.....Sling the crap 24/7...too bad.
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#268002 - 06/16/04 10:23 PM Re: An even handed analysis of Bush
grandpa Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 08/18/02
Posts: 1714
Loc: brier,wa
Only responding to your insults which pervade every post anymore. This gotcha game is getting old....that God fishing is starting up.
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