At the end of F911 Michael Moore quotes Condoleeza Rice as saying, “Oh, indeed there is a tie between Iraq and what happened on 9/11.” Asjust like he did with the Charlton Heston speech in BFC, Mike plays fast and loose with the truth through the world of editing. But that was the truncated, Michael Moore version. Now for the full, unexpurgated quote:

“Oh, indeed there is a tie between Iraq and what happened on 9/11. It’s not that Saddam Hussein was somehow himself and his regime involved in 9/11, but, if you think about what caused 9/11, it is the rise of ideologies of hatred that lead people to drive airplanes into buildings in New York.”


Do you see what he did there ? I suppose it does not matter if you want to believe it's the truth.

Mccain said that Kerry's testimony hurt the POW's and was used against them. Most of the people that served with him think he was trying to get back stateside by any means possible. Bushs commanding officers said he met his obligation. I have a cousin that ws in the NG and a pilot from 1968 to 1974 . He was never sent to Vietnam and was honorable discharged . Our family had no money or connections. He joined the NG and served. I suppose Bush could have been shown favors because of his family. So choose your evil

At least we STILL have a free press, but remember W. said "there ought to be a limit on freedom." We just cannot afford four more years with this idoit at the helm. The leader of the Free World and he has trouble piecing two complete sentences together.


George W. Bush's Credibility
Bush Pressured CIA to Cook the Books
"In the wake of the Sept. 11 attacks, CIA analysts were ordered repeatedly to redo intelligence assessments that concluded al-Qaida had no operational ties to Iraq, according to a veteran CIA counterterrorism official who has written a book that is sharply critical of the decision to go to war with Iraq."
The Los Angeles Times July 01, 2004

Administration Stonewalls Abu Ghraib Investigation
"Mr. Rumsfeld's handling of another issue, the Red Cross reports on Iraq, is the most outrageous example of the administration's bad faith on the prison scandal. The Bush administration has cited Red Cross confidentiality policies to explain its failure to give up the reports. The trouble is, the Red Cross has repeatedly told the administration to go ahead and share the agency's findings with Congress, as long as steps are taken to prevent leaks."
The New York Times June 30, 2004

President Questioned About Plame Outing
"A team of federal prosecutors interviewed President Bush in the Oval Office for more than an hour on Thursday as part of their investigation into whether administration officials illegally disclosed to a journalist the identity of an undercover C.I.A. officer, the White House said."
The New York Times June 25, 2004

Bush's Reassurances Hardly Reassuring
"We can now see the August 2002 legal opinion for ourselves, thanks to The Post, which posted the complete text on its Web site Monday. Reading the memo's legalistic explanation of why "the mere inflicting of pain or suffering on another" is not torture, you begin to understand why Attorney General John Ashcroft refused last week to release the opinion himself -- and why Bush's description of it was so misleading. The document, in its dry, lawyerly way, is as shocking as the Abu Ghraib photographs."
The Washinton Post June 15, 2004

Top Military Brass Implicated in Abu Ghraib Scandal
"The top U.S. commander in Iraq, Lt. Gen. Ricardo Sanchez, issued a classified order last November directing military guards to hide a prisoner, later dubbed "Triple X" by soldiers, from Red Cross inspectors and keep his name off official rosters. The disclosure, by military sources, is the first indication that Sanchez was directly involved in efforts to hide prisoners from the Red Cross, a practice that was sharply criticized by Maj. Gen. Antonio Taguba in a report describing abuses of detainees at the Abu Ghraib prison near Baghdad."
US News & World Report June 14, 2004

Bush Administration Places Itself Above the Law
"After assertions by the Bush administration that the United States did not intend to comply with the Geneva Conventions, that its treatment of detainees at Guantánamo Bay was beyond review by U.S. courts and that it could hold U.S. citizens without charge or trial, it is difficult to believe that any new leaked memorandum could have the power to shock.

What makes this memo different is that it lays out a strategy by which anyone in the U.S. government -- from the president down to the lowliest foot soldier -- can defeat a prosecution for violating U.S. laws. By asserting that the president is immune from criminal laws during any war, it is a full-scale attack on the Constitution itself."
[The article deals with Defense and Justice memos outlining how the government can engage in torture without fear of prosecution.]
The Miami Herald June 11, 2004

Meet the Real Flip-Flopper
Bush-Cheney team likes to say president is "steadfast." And John Kerry is "flip-flopper." But Senator Kerry is bolted to floor compared to Bush. President Bush is no more steadfast than Tony Soprano is faithful."
The Boston Globe June 05, 2004
Click here for article
Bush's Hands Off Style Leads to Problems
"President Bush has long prided himself for focusing on big goals rather than niggling details and delegating significant responsibility to his aides. But his belated attention to the brutality at Iraq's Abu Ghraib prison has revealed vulnerabilities in a management style that had brought him personal and political success.

Outsiders, including some Republicans who speak forlornly about the debacle, said the Abu Ghraib scandal is the price Bush is paying for lacking curiosity and showing unwillingness to delve into potential roadblocks to his larger mission."

The Washington Post June 02, 2004

Bush's Flaws Have Long Been on Display, Despite Early Press Treatment
"The truth is that the character flaws that currently have even conservative pundits fuming have been visible all along. Mr. Bush's problems with the truth have long been apparent to anyone willing to check his budget arithmetic. His inability to admit mistakes has also been obvious for a long time."
The New York Times May 28, 2004
Click here for article
Secret Budget Memo Shows Drastic Cuts Across the Board
"The White House put government agencies on notice this month that if President Bush is reelected, his budget for 2006 may include spending cuts for virtually all agencies in charge of domestic programs, including education, homeland security and others that the president backed in this campaign year."
The Washington Posts May 27, 2004

Prison Abuse Scandal Showing Signs of Cover Up
"The Bush administration is doing its best to keep secret the policies it has developed for handling foreign prisoners and to stifle congressional examination of the issue."

"President Bush compounds the damage by refusing to make public the practices that U.S. interrogators are allowed to use with foreign detainees. The administration's claims that these all conform to the Geneva Conventions have little credibility -- not only because the International Red Cross and other outside experts strongly disagree but because sworn statements by senior Pentagon and Army officials at Armed Services hearings have been riddled with contradictions."

The Washington Post May 23, 2004

Bush Arrogance and Hubris Increasingly Evident
"Those in Bush's inner circle reconciled themselves to this suspension of morality long ago. They live in a bubble in which everything is permitted militarily and politically in the pursuit of total victory. Their approach to the Iraq campaign is the same as their approach to all things: 'We can do anything we want to win. We can do no wrong. We will brook no dissent.' "
The Guardian (United Kingdom) May 21, 2004

Bush Guilty of Violating Propoganda Law
"Mock news reports produced and distributed to local television stations by the Bush administration to promote the Medicare prescription-drug program violated a provision of federal law that prohibits the use of taxpayer funds for "covert propaganda," the General Accounting Office determined yesterday."
The Seattle Times May 20, 2004

Bush Administration Touting Programs it Tried to Cut
"Like many of its predecessors, the Bush White House has used the machinery of government to promote the re-election of the president by awarding federal grants to strategically important states. But in a twist this election season, many administration officials are taking credit for spreading largess through programs that President Bush tried to eliminate or to cut sharply."
The New York Times May 19, 2004

More Evidence of Offical Involvement in Torture Scandal
"Republicans on Capitol Hill were notably reluctant to back Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld. And NEWSWEEK has learned that U.S. soldiers and CIA operatives could be accused of war crimes. Among the possible charges: homicide involving deaths during interrogations. 'The photos clearly demonstrate to me the level of prisoner abuse and mistreatment went far beyond what I expected, and certainly involved more than six or seven MPs,' said GOP Sen. Lindsey Graham, a former military prosecutor. He added: 'It seems to have been planned.' "

Newsweek May 17, 2004

Even in War, Bush More Concerned With Politics Than Policy
"I thought the administration would have to do the right things in Iraq — from prewar planning and putting in enough troops to dismissing the secretary of defense for incompetence — because surely this was the most important thing for the president and the country. But I was wrong. There is something even more important to the Bush crowd than getting Iraq right, and that's getting re-elected and staying loyal to the conservative base to do so. It has always been more important for the Bush folks to defeat liberals at home than Baathists abroad. That's why they spent more time studying U.S. polls than Iraqi history."
The New York Times May 13, 2004

Torture and Abuse Appear to be Systemic
"At congressional hearings last week, Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld and senior military commanders repeatedly tried to distinguish what they characterized as isolated acts by a handful of individuals at Abu Ghraib from the general procedures under which physical and mental harassment is used to soften up prisoners and under which prison guards are ordered to "set the conditions" for intelligence interrogators. They pretended there was no connection between the two.

Yet a growing body of evidence shows that the connection is integral."

The Washington Post May 11, 2004

Bush Facing Criticism from the Right
"After three years of sweeping actions in both foreign and domestic affairs, the Bush administration is facing complaints from the conservative intelligentsia that it has lost its ability to produce fresh policies.

The centerpiece of President Bush's foreign policy -- the effort to transform Iraq into a peaceful democracy -- has been undermined by a deadly insurrection and broadcast photos of brutality by U.S. prison guards. On the domestic side, conservatives and former administration officials say the White House policy apparatus is moribund, with policies driven by political expediency or ideological pressure rather than by facts and expertise."
The Washington Post May 10, 2004

Bush Sees America as Above International Law
"Instead of a country committed to law, the United States is now seen as a country that proclaims high legal ideals and then says that they should apply to all others but not to itself. That view has been worsened by the Bush administration's determination that Americans not be subject to the new International Criminal Court, which is supposed to punish genocide and war crimes."
The New York Times May 07, 2004
Click here for article
What Did He Know, And When Did He Know It?
"Mr Bush also faces rising anger in Congress at his administration's failure to come forward about the mistreatment of Iraqi prisoners. He admitted he first learned of the torture claims in EARLY JANUARY."

AM,

As I remember and all my reading on the war shows it was more popular to avoid going than to have gone in the day. Much unlike WWII where 16 million served.

"... most of which he nominated himself for and their validity was questioned by his CO--Including one of his non-combat related boo-boos that required some Bactine spray and a band aid-He asked for and received the Purple Heart. In the olden days when I got a boo-boo my Mom would spray Bactine on and put a band aid on it and then just 'kiss it and make it better."

Sorry, chicken-hawk, but it don't work that-a-way. You can't nominate yourself for a medal, and you cannot receive the Purple Heart for a noncombat related injury. Not only that, but his CO is the approving authority, so unless the CO is questioning his own judgement...

I'm sure McCain and Dole will appreciate your comparison of a combat related injury to that of a "boo-boo."

The administration has announced that it will be calling up members of the Individual Ready Reserve (IRR) to report back to active duty. Those are retirees and people that have ETS'd. They're calling mostly engineers and intelligence people (Caveman?). 5,600 next month and more to follow. It's just like a backdoor draft keeping all those privileged safe - not to mention those that find it easier to sit behind a monitor playing cheerleader because they don't have the intestinal fortitude to strap on a pair of boots.

If Bush is a true believer in fulfililng one's duty to America and is truly sincere in his fight against terrorism, why isn't he more ardently persuading his own daughters to join the military now that they're done with college?

Just got back from seeing Fahrenheit 911. I thought is was a great and sobering film and highly recommend it!
If you haven't seen it or are basing your impressions on what other tell you to think then you are doing yourself a great disservice by not actually seeing the film. If you trash Moore and his work without actually knowing anything about him then you arguments here are pointless. Base your opinion on first hand knowledge not on what some radio, newspaper or television hack tell you to think.
Say what you want about Moore but there is no doubt this is one powerful film and while
I was not all that impressed with "Bowiling for Columbine" Moore makes up for it with this film.
Flame away at me if you want but unless you have actually seen the film then your criticism is baseless.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Stew:

If you haven't seen it or are basing your impressions on what other tell you to think then you are doing yourself a great disservice by not actually seeing the film.

Flame away at me if you want but unless you have actually seen the film then your criticism is baseless. --Stew

I've never seen a homosexual S&M snuff film either--do I need to go see one and lay down my hard earned money making the pornagraphers who made it wealthy to be able to say it's not my cup of tea?

SCOWAK

[Quote] "I've never seen a homosexual S&M snuff film either--do I need to go see one and lay down my hard .........................

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No you don't. Just relax, no need to go overboard. I think this movie and the public will do just fine without you seeing it. Please stay away, if seeing this movie brings out the thoughts you just mentioned. My I suggest that you get help if the condition doesn't improve. already to much wierd stuff going on out there. Probably time to go do some Bass fishing.

GH said: "If Bush is a true believer in fulfililng one's duty to America and is truly sincere in his fight against terrorism, why isn't he more ardently persuading his own daughters to join the military now that they're done with college?"


LOL. First, who said he didn't have those talks with his kids? Second, I would have that talk with my sons, but not my daughter (if I had a daughter). Just a personal opinion about women in the military...

But all that is beside the point. They are calling up those people because they need trained and experienced people ASAP. I doubt the Presidents daughters have any experience building bridges and hospitals while dodging road-side bombs...

Sorry, but you're wrong again. They are calling up those people because the Army is running thin, and all the "partriots" are playing cheerleader from their livingrooms instead of joining the fight.

And yet we're dismissing specialists rooted out be the "Don't ask, don't tell" policy.

Nice.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by PhishPhreak:

[QB] GH said: "If Bush is a true believer in fulfililng one's duty to America and is truly sincere in his fight against terrorism, why isn't he more ardently persuading his own daughters to join the military now that they're done with college?"


LOL. First, who said he didn't have those talks with his kids? Second, I would have that talk with my sons, but not my daughter (if I had a daughter). Just a personal opinion about women in the military...

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Women are highly intellegent and can contribute to our armed forces in a number of vital roles. However, I don't believe they should be on the front lines or in forward positions.


Because no one wants to see women suffer--that's why I say, " STOP WOMENS SUFFRAGE NOW!"

Absolutely awesome two part interview with Micheal Moore on Charle Rose this week.

First in depth interview I'd seen with the man and he won some newfound respect with me. Hey if good conservative Texan like Charlie considers him a friend, there must be adequate substance there.

I smell another congressional investigation as to the flight of the Bin Laden family. The questions raised are valid and I think the motivation of the Bush administration in accepting a personal call from Prince Bandar two days after a dozen of HIS COUNTRIES CITIZENS attacked the United States. Bin Laden's relatives WERE ON THE PLANE.

Valid questions raised and yet to be addressed satisfactorally by the Bush administration.

Good work MM!!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by stlhdh2o:

Absolutely awesome two part interview with Micheal Moore on Charle Rose this week.

First in depth interview I'd seen with the man and he won some newfound respect with me. Hey if good conservative Texan like Charlie considers him a friend, there must be adequate substance there.--stlhdH20


Charlie Rose may be a Texan, but he's about as conservative as Phil Donahue. I saw the interview as well, and the questions Charlie Rose pitched at him made me think back fondly to my softball days.

The reason you've only seen one "in depth" interview with Michael Moore is because he doesn't want to have his Documentary exposed for the Mockumentary it really is. I'd like to see him do an "in depth" interview with Michael Medved about F911-- then let's see who's left standing.

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I smell another congressional investigation as to the flight of the Bin Laden family. --stlhdH20

The only thing a congressional investigation would find is that Richard Clarke (by his own omission) authorized those flights. Michael Moore doesn't tell you that in the movie ( because it doesn't fit in with his spooky conspiracy theory) but he does suggest that Richard Clarke is a man of integrity whom we should believe.

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Good work MM!!--sthdH2o


If you want to see other work that was considered "good"as well as" factual'' that lead people to have "enlightened views" by raising "valid questions" perhaps you should check out some of Leni Riefenstahl film work. They're not my cup of tea personally, but I understand the cinematography is brilliant and she won a number of awards. I'm not sure if Charlie Rose ever did an "in depth" interview with her though.

Who's this Phil Donahue guy they keep talking about? Is he involved in the presidential campaign or pertinent to the issues of today? Or is he behind the "blame America first" conspiracy?

If you combine the fact of their special treatment with the close financial connections between the two families, Bin Ladin and Bush, it raises serious questions.

Imagine spiriting the McVeigh family out of Oklahoma City the day after that bombing....mightn't the citizens of that city have valid questions as to why?

Would they have the right to expect their leaders to answer the goddamn question?

I think so.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by stlhdh2o:

If you combine the fact of their special treatment with the close financial connections between the two families, Bin Ladin and Bush, it raises serious questions.--stlhdH20

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By saying they had ,"close financial connections"--Are you referring to the past investments both families had in the Carlyle Group?


If so, would you be just as alarmed to know that John Kerry and his family also held major investments in the Carlyle Group at the same time the bin Ladin family did? Michael Moore didn't mention that in his movie either--because it didn't help to promote his Spooky Conspiracy theory.

No.......its the special relationship between Dubya and the Bin Ladin family financial representative, (name eludes me off the top of my head) that I find alarming.

You know...they dodged the draft together...that guy.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by AuntyM

During Vietnam, we had a draft. Most guardsmen never went to Vietnam. It was a National disgrace back then. The priveleged among us could serve in the guard and avoid Nam and it was cosidered by many, especially draftees, to be legal draft dodging.--AuntyM

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Do you think the men who served stateside in the Coast Guard during the Vietnam era were a bunch of ,"draft dodging scumbags"?