Paraphrasing:

'there's no comparison between Vietnam and Iraq......in Viet Nam, Dubya had an exit strategy'

ba dum dum

I loved it when his show was canceled. He is anti gun, anti hunting a friend of PETA . I cannot belive any sportsman would support the guy in any way.

....and what I love about him most is that righty hates him so much.

stlhdh2o,

Do you think the world would be a better place with the fall of the US republic?

Here ya go, Plunk: New Home

You're obviously not happy living in a democracy, so I took the trouble of finding you a suitable home with a style of government more to your liking.

There's always Canada, I hear that they grow some of the best glaucoma medication in the world.

Not exactly, Plunk.

US imperialism, yes.

It starts with cleaning up the mess we made in the middle east after WW II. First step: Admitting that its even our problem. Until we in the 'republic' take responsibility we will be fighting the war on terror.

Fighting the war on terror should be our primary focus as a nation. It has not been, we've been too busy in Iraq. Should any president that makes a mistake that big, one that threatens our national security so egregiously, be given an opportunity to screw it up again? Even worse perhaps? Were another terrorist attack to occur on US soil in a second Bush term, would he try to blame Clinton?

...and is the thought of Kerry for four years THAT overwhelmingly bad in comparison to what we've seen out of Dumbya?

Should the ranks of Al Qaeda treble before you rate his presidency an abject failure?

Fall of the republic? Heck no, aim low. Start with the presidency and work to change certain aspects of US culture slowly over time.

I'm so radical.

"I'm so radical."

Not even close your revisionist ideas are middle of the road for libs and fairly common among people that understand little about the M.E. Simplistic and naive are much better words in which to frame your thoughts.

...just goes to show you, you're not a very good judge of character.

Its one amongst many things you have patently wrong. Like that Dumbya is a good president or good christians fight to protect their honor.

I don't need to speak to it. You've said it yourself. Everything is black or white. How much more 'simplistic' and 'naive' could I possibly be?

H20,

I will assume that your post above was original thouhts of yours and not just stuff you drudged up from somewhere.
lets start with this

"It starts with cleaning up the mess we made in the middle east after WW II"


Other than our support for Isreal there is only one or two minor issues since WWII that the Wahbbi clerics raise as an issue. So what do you reference here? Isreal ? That would fall under my Naive remark is so.

I agree, your remark was naive.

I see you haven't taken my suggestion and read 'Imperial Hubris', or even taken a look at the author's credentials.

He speaks directly to what I've been saying is the starting point to stamping out terror. I wouldn't expect you to take anything critical of Bush's foreign policy seriously though, whether it came from my lil ol keyboard or that of the CIA's topmost expert on Osama Bin Laden and Al Qaeda.

Nope, I'd expect a chickenhawk like you to just go down with the ship, shouting the same old lines, believing the same old BS....

...glug, glug....

As I've said before, they used to call those on right who wanted a strong national defense and unwavering support of Israel "Zionists".

Once people caught on to that wink-wink terminology, the left changed it so as not to appear anti-semitic. The new P.C. term the left has adopted is "neo-conservative".

As for the rest of your hypothesis about the establishment of a Jewish state--you really ought to crack open a history book, or AuntyM are opposed to doing anything that those ignorant "neo-conservaties" do?

The fact that you and stlhdH20 think that the problems in the middle-east started after WWII ended really speaks volumes about how much you understand the complexities and history of that region.

AuntyM

Do you mean the one where the US did everything possible to assure the European Jewish refugee population would have someplace else to settle BESIDES here?

How anti-Semetic of all those God fearing Christians! After the Jews suffered and endured Hitler in WWII, we wouldn't welcome them here. A large percentage DID want to immigrate to the US instead of the "Holy Land" and we didn't want them. Only the very lucky ones were allowed to immigrate to the US. Ditto for the Brits.

We will support Jews in Israel forever, as long as they don't come here and threaten our Christian dominance of the US.

YUP! This mess was CREATED by hypocritical Christians... Most Jewish refugees had NO traceable Middle Eastern heritage, yet we forced many to settle there and forced the Arab population to live with it. Anyone opposing said policy is labeled "anti-Semitic", "rascist" or worse, when in reality, it was an anti-Semitic AND anti-Arabic policy in the first place.
------------------------------------------------------------

That is so absolutly true!

A huge mistake that is costly and wrong. A logic that is next to imposible to rationalize or justify. Could be why we do so poorly with a deplomacy that's crippled by it's anti-Arab policies and all it's injustices. We will eventually have to notice what the rest of the World see's, as we turn a blind eye. It's like having an Elephant take a dump on top of the dinner table, and not be aware that it is offending someone else, because we've been condition to over look the out of control Elephant (with WMD), that is Isreal.

Can't get the Genie back in the bottle.

"The fact that you and stlhdH20 think that the problems in the middle-east started after WWII ended really speaks volumes about how much you understand the complexities and history of that region."

The fact that neither AuntyM or I said anything even resembling what you represented is testament to why your party is circling the drain like a turd in need of a broomstick.

-----------------------------------------------------------


WOW!


I really hope there are some Jewish fisherman out there reading this --I'm sure they'll appreciate having themselves, their families and their homeland being campared to a circus animal eliminating fecal matter.

I'm pretty sure the elephant he is referring to is the republican party....

....pretty sure, anyway.

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Did I miss something?

The IT I am referring to, for those that need it explained to them, is the beginning of the problems for our country in the region...

....and the root of 'terror'.

I shouldn't expect you'd be able to extrapolate that from the quoted sentence....

It's too late to extrapolate, and besides my Ambien is kicking in.

Republicans have a never ending list of excuses for not going the extra intellectual mile.

Ironic isn't it that in this case its drug use?

It all comes down to being anti Christian. They have enough historical information to form yet another conspiracy then they stop. It's about hating Christians and nothing more.

Scowako

I really hope there are some Jewish fisherman out there reading this --I'm sure they'll appreciate having themselves, their families and their homeland being campared to a circus animal eliminating fecal matter.
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Thanks H2o for helping to keep the focus on the Republican Party and this stupid regime's middle east policy. A policy that's has created many more torrorist's and the problems associated with them.

By the way Scowako, many of my Jewish friends are also appalled at the way Isreal treats the original people of that land, the Palistinians. Some even compare it to Hitlers treatment of the Jews! Man you need to be around some real people with original feelings that have not been propagandized into blindness and ignorance by the mass media. Learn to trust your own natural senses (touch, sight, taste, hearing and intuition) when a turd is handed to you, and not let The Fox News channel put a spinn on it, for your ready palate to accept as a gourmet delicacy.

Our supporting this apartheid policy is wrong and the majority of people in that region will continue to resist it. That's just human nature. People will seek to be free and un- ocupied. Look at what we did to the British. You can't build enough nuclear bombs to surpress this need. This policy will eventually backfire on us and Chicken Hawks like yourself will be powerless with your mouse to stop it.

AHen,

I need a 20oz Mt Dew to choke down that load of Horse manure you just tried to feed us. What an utterly misguided attempt to rewrite history to suit your purpose.

First off you have to go way back before there were Christians to understand the nature of the conflict and the reasons the Whabbis have included the destruction of Isreal in their list of demands. Then you will see that the nature of the conflict is a family squabble. You will also see acheologic evidence that lays the ground work for equal claim to both the Jews and "Palestinians". I put Palestianians in quotes because at the bigining and well into the disagreement over the lands the people that would form "Palestine" were a nomadic people residing mostly in what is now Jordan.
4000 years of battles have left landmarks claimed by both sides to represent their religions. This makes sense at it all started 4000 years ago as a dispute between two brothers over the promise that god made to their father. So the historical record over who has rights tot he land is a wash. Now fast forward to post WWII. The boundaries of the Ottoman empire are shruken to their smallest size in almost 4000 years. The Allies support and help create a Zionist state of Isreal. The battle starts anew as Islam feels that the powers of the world are siding with Jews on the religous issue and fear a powerful Jewish state in the ME. Which is partially true as the Christian dominated pwers realize that the bible speaks directly of the roles of the Jews in biblical prophecy. For this prophecy to take place their must be Jews in Zion. A great book that deals with this better than any other is The footsteps of the Messiah by Arnold Fruchtenbaum a convert Christian Jew. This Zionist move was supported by the US not out of racisim but out of the Christian belief in the prophecy of revelation. So the stage is set for today. The Whabbis have been pushing from behind the scenes for 60 years to remove Christian influence from the region in order to reestablish the Islamic claim of the territory based on their interpretation of the promise from God. This has been done using all the states surround Isreal. While Isreal and the Allies claimed from the beginning and still do todaythat their is both historical and logical reasons why they can both exist in the ame area. Islam has always manintained the opposite that Isreal cannot exist. So one would be rewriting history and misrepresenting the facts to justification to capitulate to the whabbi demands repesented by Bin laden. It would also be racist as that position would include a defacto support of Islam over the jews and Christians vs a postion of they all have an equal claim .

Or we could all go revisionist and treat all situations around the world the same to be fair. Meaning you would all have to turn over your land to the local tribes because they claim they where here first. You would then all have to repatriate to your ancesteral homelands and leave the US.

Flush...

........circling, circling...

Where did I put that broomstick........?

H20,

Whats a matter a few facts get in your way so you kick back to the childish antics? Come on lets hear your thoughts. Oh! I just have to read Imperial Hubris to get a peek at your one source is enough for me view of the world and combine it with a hearty I hate Christians then throw ina little Stem Cell research promises H20 a new brian from his original DNA hail mary humanism. :p Makes sense to me.

How does this stuff get out? I don't remember posting any such thing?

I'll get a new 'brian' when elvis gets a new 'fact sheet'.

The definition of stupidity as we've all heard it is 'repeating the same mistake over and over again expecting a different result'.

Like 'why isn't this wall smashing down after repeated violent blows with my head'

Again Elvis.....read the frickin book.

.....you know what? Don't read it....don't waste your time. Dumbya is a wonderful president and you're safer now. I hate christians and I haven't been sober in twenty years.

There....your world is now black and white.....

...oh, the simplistic naivete of it all.

AM,
"They are trying to MAKE prophecy happen "

That is a very small fundamental groups actions that you broad brush all christians with. If you understood Revelations prophecy you would know that you cannot MAKE anything happen . That in and of itself discredits that groups beliefs. Secondly there is nothing, not one thing in Revelations that requires or infers that Christians want Jews to convert to be saved. revelations is very very clear about what will happpen. If you understood Christianity there is only one human action that can change the outcome and it relates to only one person at a time. Revelations is ceratainly the most complicated book of the bible and the only one that touches all other books. Still you should not label a religion based on what you have heard because it is the exact thing you have accuesed others here of doing RE;Islam.

I can spell I just cannot type Brain not Brian

H20,

I have the book on order from the Library I should get it early sept. How many books you planning on reading on these issues beteween now and the election? Or is Hubris and F911 all you need to know?

AM,

You compound your ignorance.

"middle east scares them because it would prove they were WRONG about their prophecy"

The role of the ME in revelational prophecy is over beacuse the Jews have returned to Zion. So that part is all over and fulfilled.

AM,

You have been watching to much TV and have a grand view of your role in the world

"every one of you/me that give up"

I never realized you where so important in the world view?

Am,

"As long as there is no peace in Israel, the prophecy CAN'T be fulfilled"

Please support that claim? And what is the prophecy?

Christian Zionism at its core:

r.b. thieme ministries

From reading through all the huggy kissy stuff you'd never guess that this is the same r.b. thieme who often preached wearing a military uniform. Thieme, who often swore from the pulpit, would tell the congregation it was their “God-given right to kill gooks.”

Nice company Elvis.

AM,

"As long as there is no peace in Israel, the prophecy CAN'T be fulfilled" As your source cearly states the vast majority or Christians support the road map. The Prophecy holds no stipualtions as to the condition of the Palestinian and Isreali relations WRT Revelations. Quit holding the exception up as the rule. It is ignorant at best.

H20,

I could be like you and post a NAMBLA link and say it represents liberals best. What a weak attempt at bashing christians. I would think your anti Christian hate would at least be more mainstream. What a fool!

Am,

This is a good example of someone using a bible passage to try and twist it's context to meet their need. We need to pay attention to the 4 laws of translation as proscribed by the Biblical research Society. You quote a passage as litteral (the first rule) when there are other passages later on which give more detail and clarification of the true meaning of this passseage. So using the 3rd law of translation Recurrence we see more clarification and better context. This series of text refers to the invasion of Isreal from the North and the subsequent destrutction of the invading armies. It does not support your claim that Christians are required to convert jews or support the destruction of Islam in any way. Try again. Given the time it took you to reply I take it your Google bible debate will take you too much time to form any basis of intelligent undrstanding of the bible. It's much easier to just balnket hate Christians and balme them for the worlds ill's.

There are many pieces and a sequence to the prophecy which you leave out because you do not understand nor have you ever studied the prophecy. You are just searching the net and finding bits and pieces. Mostly from apostate or apocalyptic churches or demi churches. Read the footsteps of the Messiah then come back and we can talk until then you might be able to fool the rest of the libs here.

The Russo-Islamic alliance?
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Is Russia even formally recognized as a country anymore?

I read a few of those Hal Linsey type of books in the '80's.

The theological interperations don't hold up as well now that the Soviet empire has fallen.

The Bible is very clear in both the old and new testements that the day and hour of the second coming is unknown.

However, I'm glad to see that you spent some time doing a little bible study--it's something WE ALL CAN BENEFIT FROM at this or any other time.

You're an effective debater AuntyM--We just need to get you on the winning teams side.

Just got back from a fishing trip again and first thing I see is the Democratic convention and Al Gore whining about the 2000 election and second I open this thread....You guys actually believe this stuff? WOW...fishing again soon....keep making fools of each other..makes for good entertainment

You go girl......I need some more stimulating arguments before the next fishing trip.

Actually the Russo Islamic alliance theroy has some possibility. Revelations reveals that a large army from the North(more specific detail on location are given) attacks and isannihilated. As the world is currently shaped the only army big enough would be Russias.

Read this article if you think the West,Jews and christians are to blame for the conditions in the ME.

http://www.worldthreats.com/middle_east/Haim%20Harari.htm

Subtitle:

"Perspective of an ultra-conservative, ultra-nationalistic Jew"

Nice company Elvis.

Guys like this are part of the problem because they continue to bring the same old tired, overused and ineffectual ideas to the table.

Time for some new ideas over there in the holy land, the same 'ol same 'ol ain't going to cut it. In fact, if you refer back to my definition of stupidity..........

R.B. Thieme is Dan Quayle's pastor. Go ahead, find a way to rationalize that too Elvis, as middle america further separates itself from the ultra-conservative christian whackos pulling the puppet strings in the republican party.

You did not even read the article did you H20? You skimmed about the author and stopped.


"R.B. Thieme is Dan Quayle's pastor" I could give a rats ass who's pastor he is. Doctrine of the church compared to the seven letters to the seven churches is what is important when discussing the prophecy of Revelations. Churches like people can say whatever they feel like. Does not mean they are truely who they say they are. Furthermore comparing a single church's or mans idiology to that of all Christians would be like me comparing all liberals to NAMBLA beacuse they have a very liberal doctrine. It works with most anti Christians becaus they know little to nothing about what they hate so much. The ultimate biggotry and the only one tolerated in this country.

" And you know, for people who are, you know, I'm not Republican or Democrat, but I'm not making a secret I don't want this president reelected. But I think for people who do, for people who are Bush supporters, they really need to look in the mirror and ask themselves, because they consider themselves more patriotic usually, the Republicans, was that the patriotic thing to do? Who do you love more? George Bush or your country?

John Kerry was the guy whose Swift boat was on the Mekong Delta and he had literally charged the shore and killed the guy in the spider hole. George Bush is the guy who when the aide says, sir, the country is under attack, sits there for seven minutes, frozen. He choked. That's what's called choking in sports. When you can't move.

Like that seven minutes President Bush took to get up after he was told the country was under attack. To me, this is an ultimate deal breaker in this election. And again, I would invite Republicans, independents, people who are thinking of voting for the president, to say to themselves, take President Bush out of this equation. Take him out. Just say a president is told by an aide, the country is under attack. Should that president, (A), stick to what he's doing and not interrupt. Or consider that an immediate cause to get up and react?
I don't see how anyone can argue the reverse. And the excuse they gave. He didn't want to scare the children. This is the ultimate for the children, Larry. I mean, apparently 20 children in a schoolroom in Florida is more important than the fate of the country."

- Bill Maher

************

Since its a Bill Maher thread, a little cut and paste.

...and honestly, try as he says to lay who the president is aside and make an honest, fair judgement.

The assesment that Bouche choked is not unfair.