This is almost getting comical. :rolleyes:

The first thing the Bushies will claim is, "He had to of served or he wouldn't have gotten paid." Yeah, right. Anyone that's served an appreciable time in the military knows the pay system wouldn't screw up, right? Geez, just look at what the NG and USAR are going through now.

How dare you insinuate Bush is a draft dodger.

Kerry or GW's military histories are a big deal with a very small % of the population. Most of them homeless :p

TK: Funny though, how big a deal the conservatives made out of Clinton's draft dodging.

Seems less important now, I guess?

Wow, I didn't realize the GOP was such a small percentage of the population, and that they are homeless to boot. As I recall, they were the ones making a pretty big deal about Kerry's anti-war activism upon returning from actually fighting in a war, questioning his medals, questioning his wounds, yada, yada, yada.

GH,

You forgot the context. Kerry and his boys made an issue of GW's service as a continuation of what Gore started 5 years ago. I can promise you GW's team was not the fist to bring it up.

This thread goes no further until Elvis finally admits Dumbya dodged the draft.

THEN we'll argue context.

Come on Dave--you're too talented of a writer to throw a softball like that.


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It's also funny how liberals didn't seem to think Bill Clinton (who was a true draft dodger) was any less suited to be President than the true WWII hero's Bush 41 and Bob Dole--but now when they think it's politically advantageous they try to make a big deal of the fact that Bush 43 served in the National Guard and received an Honorable discharge vs. Kerry serving in Vietnam for four months.

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For all of you convinced that being a decorated Naval Officer automatically makes you a good president--keep in mind that Jimmy Carter ( John Kerry's political soulmate) was a highly decorated Naval Officer.

Did his impressive Naval career make him a better U.S. President than Ronald Reagan?

Was he better at dealing with Islamic extremists than Ronald Reagan?

Do you remember how when Ronald Reagan (whos's own military career wasn't nearly as impressive as Carter's) who had vowed he'd NEVER negotiate with terrorists was only 20 minutes away from being inaugurated and assuming the duties as Commander and Chief when the hostages were "miraculousy" released after being held hostage for 444 days while Jimmy Carter ( John Kerry's political soulmate) had tried to negotiate their release as Commander and Chief?
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You see the terrorists realized that one man wanted to have a talk (negotiate) and maybe a hug, and the other vowed that he WOULD NOT negotiate and that I'll Take Care Of Business! Like it or not, that's the only kind of "talking" terrorists understand.

Terrorists don't respect much less fear someone who wants to negotiate with them or promisses they'll bow at the alter of the U.N. and ask for France's permission before
they'll ever considering protecting their countries interests.
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I believe if somehow the Islamic terrorists that took the Americans hostage in Iran could have voted in the 1980 Presidential election,he would have voted for Jimmy Carter.

I have no doubt that if Osama bin Laden is alive and could somehow vote absentee ballot for the upcoming 2004 Presidential election he would vote for John Kerry.

I say this with confidence because Osama bin Laden, like all terrorists follow the human instinct to take the path of least resistance and would much rather "deal" with someone who wants to talk (negotiate) and hug them than someone who vows to destroy them.
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In a few days Ted Kennedy, former Klu Klux Klansman Robert Byrd, Phil Donahue and the rest of the like minded "enlightened people" will be having their convention in Beantown--You'll see the two decorated Naval Officer's-- John Kerry and his political soulmate Jimmy Carter.

What they did while they served in the Navy was admirable--what they did or would like to as Commander and Chief in dealing with Islamic terrorists with negotiations (only after getting France's permission)--did not and would not keep American citizens safe here or any where else in the world.

Just something to ponder for any undecided boats out there looking for safe harbor.

Again so that we all can hear you.

George Bush is a draft dodger.

We can argue how important it is in the context of this election once we get past that fact.

Isn't if funny how some people like to point out the dirty closet in some one els's house, and yet they don't really want people to look into how dirty their's is..................Almost like some religious people (judge not lest ye be judged), like to point the finger first. ...........Fishy..........

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It's even funnier watching Somethingspellsfishy attempt to spell simple words correctly and put them together in a complete comprehensible sentence form.

Dang. Looks like it was premature ejaculation again by the Bushies. Keep trying, though, odds are you'll get something right.

By the way, ChickenHawk, you should do yourself a favor and unplug your computer, box it up, and give it to someone that really understands what's going on in the world. If you actually brought credibility to these discussions it would help immensely.

By the way,

I'm trying to help, really I am.

Scowacko, it is a given that sometimes in my haste, I do make spelling errors.
But I would rather continue to make all of my hasty spelling mistakes that to show my true colors, like you. You call yourself a christian, yet you seem to be the first to throw stones, and want to go into battle, start a fight, and put someone down for having a differing opinon than you.
One of the greatest things about this country is that two people can have different stances on a subject, complete opposite ends of the spectrum. Debating strenuously trying to sway the other into thinking the same as them, all the while upholding a certain decorum. You have managed to stomp,trample and circumvent that decorum, all while professing a belief to view others through christian eyes. Even as a none christian I find that offensive, I am sure there a others here as well.
SO go ahead an laugh, guffaw and chortle away at my hasty typing errors, and we will continue to see you for the person that you really are.
Fishy.......

GH

I'm trying to help, really I am.
------------------------------------------------------------

This Scowako (SCOTT) is a real classic. I look forward to putting eyes on such a tool. SCOWAKO is a real nut case and shows how important it is that Mental Health Resouces get funded.

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Dear goharley,

As someone who strives to be a life-long learner, please tell me how my last well articulated and outlined post comparing John Kerry to his political soulmate and fellow decorated Naval Officer Jimmy Carter was untrue or uncredible. I would prefer if you did this line by line.

Please attempt to do this without resorting to small-minded childish name calling, but through the use of adult behavior level debating skills stating facts that I or someone else can research on the internet.

In doing this you will be effectively attacking my personal politics without belittling yourself personally attacking me because of my politics by using sophmoric, "I know you are- but what am I" type of lines.

It has become apparent that when I provide facts that you and others can't dispute, you like some others become agitated that light was shed on to the darkness of of a failed idea or policy. Then when agitated by being unable to refute and attack the stated facts you resort to attacking me personally for my my politics and the fact that I make no apologies for being a Christian.

I personally don't believe you are an unintelligent person--I just think that some of your political therories are framed more by emotion rather than logic. However, if taught effectively I could be helped to learn differenlty.
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I look forward to reading your post. I know you're really just trying to help, so I'll thank you in advance.


Wackos

Your comparison between Carter and Kerry does not make Kerry like Carter, but that they shared a certain like history. If you want ot compare like histories, compare Dumbya with any other draft dodger. Then after that comparison we should sue him for collecting his pay while being awol.
It is not a wonder why the rest of the world looks at us like we are insane at times. The defenders of Democracy, and yet we did not have it here in this country.We should have the U.N. monitor this election, just as they would any embattled country that has just been unencumber'd of a Despote!.......Fishy.....

"If you want ot compare like histories, compare Dumbya with any other draft dodger."--Somethingsmellsfishy

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If you go slow and sound out all the big words Fishy, you'll see that I did compare Bush 43's military record with that of a true draft dodger- Bill Clinton.


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I find it ironic that liberals (who generally look down at the thought of a strong, well funded and prepared U.S. military) are now concerned about a potential president's military career, but did not think it was so important in 1992 or 1996.

Clinton's own military contibutions amounted to the 'don't ask-don't tell' policy and having the occasional intern make his "little soldier" solute, and they (liberals) thought he was well suited to assume the duties of Commander and Cheif.





.....at ease "little soldier!" Now where's my cigar?

I understood everything your little mind conjured up to speak, yet have yet to hear anything resembling intelligence, or an objective look at the truth. No where did i defend Bill Clinton,(but lets face it, his indiscretions did not get anyone killed). You blather and contend that you are the enlightened one, yet your actions here on this board have created nothing but a miasmic environment...........Fishy.
Get a clue, you get so many negative comments because of your negative,self-obsorbed, self-obsessed opinions.

Ya see, Chickenhawk, your last post proves you're ill-informed. Two statements you allude to be fact and both are incorrect. Your grasp of most issues is far too shallow to be taken seriously in any discussion. You've proved that over and over in your posts.

I'm not doing your homework for you, nor am I going to educate you by analyzing every line you post. You're a conservative, try taking a little personal responsibility for a change.

No way GH.....why take personal responsibility when you can just blame Clinton?

"This thread goes no further until Elvis finally admits Dumbya dodged the draft."

H20 I will do that when you admit Kerrys action hurt POW's and that he flopped to get his 3 ph's so he could get out of there.

With that we end up even and it makes zero difference.

harley..being in the military is honorable but does not make you , by that service, superior to those who did not or will not serve. Kerry serving and then trashing the service is just an early glimpse into his opportunistic core values and his service in Viet Nam does not make him a a potentially better anything. I also think those like Clinton who used their smarts to avoid being needlessly killed in Viet Nam are much more intelligent than guys like Kerry.

I've never made any claims at being superior because of my service, only more enlightened and informed on relative issues.

As an analogy of why chickenhawks acting as war cheerleaders bothers me so much, consider this: who would you consider more credible and a more valued opinion in the wild steelhead/salmon restoration debate; a lifelong sportsman or a member of PETA?

If the lifelong sporstman comes from most any of the SW Washington towns or cities like Monroe or Sultan. I would be hard pressed to call them Sportsman. Low rent ,beer drinking,lsmoking ,littering people with fishing gears is a better discription. :p

Hehe...republican strongholds all of them.

I couldn't have described your constituency any more eloquently myself.

Nice company Elvis.

Nice geography Elvis, looked at a map lately?

H20,

No those would be the liberals. The conservatives generally fish elsewhere to avoid them.

This whole theory that you have to currently be in the military in order to be able to support the troops and the directives they're following is RIDICULOUS.

EVERY American citizen is allowed to have an opinion--It's anti-American to suggest anything to the contrary.

If we follow the line of logic that only active and retired members of the armed forces are allowed to have an opinion and or say in the matter of U.S. military action(s). Then:

AuntyM would have to go have an abortion in order to be able to have her opinions on abortions validated.

And regardless of your orientation you would have to have to have a homosexual relationship to weigh in on whether or not homosexuals should be allowed to have their marriages recognized by state and federal governments.

Well, whaddayaknow, you're actually right about something.

Now if you could only put that into practice...

Oh, and by the way, encouraging your government to wage frivilous wars so that young men and women in uniform die needlessly is NOT synonymous with supporting the troops.

goharley,

I'm curious, all kidding aside--are you supporting and voting for Ralph Nader for president in 2004?

Because Ralph Nader is the only candidate running who is on record saying that we should have never invaded Iraq. He's the only candidate that vows if he's elected will immediatley remove our troops from Iraq.

Just curious.

"Oh, and by the way, encouraging your government to wage frivilous wars so that young men and women in uniform die needlessly is NOT synonymous with supporting the troops."

No belly aching and complaining and being anti war once your government decides to go to war is not synonymous with supporting the troops. it's derisive ,counterproductive. it's compounded by supporting a guy for president that voted to go to war on only one issue while pounding the other guy who gave 12 additional valid reasons to go to war for making the decision.

yeah, after his first three turned out to be total, unmititigated bullshi*.

H20,

Not one has been proven false or misleading and you cannot prove otherwise. The whole world recognized that Saddam had WMD's it's just a matter of finding where he stashed them.

Except those of us that were never stupid enough to believe so in the first place.

righty throws that out there as if it is some sort of yet to be witnessed triumph...and yet would never take responsibility if the wmd's Iraq may have had before the war wound up in the hands of real terrorists.

Never.

They'd blame Clinton somehow, even though their inept, bungling messiah is the one who would have really screwed the pooch.

I wish there was a translator that could show me how everything gets turned into a conspiracy.

stlhdh20,

If, when you were in High School your mom told you that she was going to come in and inspect every inch of your bedroom in six months and announce her findings to the entire world --would you leave anything lying around that might incriminate yourself or cause embaresment?

ridiculous question of course.

what self-respecting mother would be stupid enough to warn their kids in advance they were going to search? ....the answer is of course any mother that mother's like Dumbya President's.....

Wrong-o. It's American. And if it somehow convinces the masses to find a way to end the war sooner rather than later, it saves soldiers from dieing, ergo, productive. Encouraging an inept administration to "stay the course" when said course is obviously poorly chosen is counter-productive.

If you've not been "the troops," you likely will not understand what support is desired.

Mass exodus of Iraq is not the answer now. We've created a huge mess that we are responsible to clean up. That's the personal responsibility thing that so many of the conservatives have a problem exercising.

------------------------------------------------------------


The kind of mother that unfairly had her hands tied behind her back by having to go through the United Nations Security Counsel.


Checkmate!

GH,

Sure discussion and disent are a right in the US but it does not mean it's right. The majority of congress supported the decision to go on 12 points not one of the 12 points has been proven false or misleading. The majority of congress agrees that going into Iraq was correct and staying the course is correct. A bipartisan decision and conclusion. The correct thing to do is support the effort until complete by doing everything possible to insure a successful mission that will honor those that have fallen and limiting the number that might fall. I see no profit in the continual diatribe that we should not have gone. It's too late we are there. And thinking it will make people think twice about war the next time is a fallacy. We think 2,3,4 times about going into any war and it is never taken lightly.

This is more like it.


What mother would ask the drug dealer that was suppling her kids business partners permission to search her kids room?

Am,

I would feel safer if people like you and GH moved to France. It would raise the IQ of both countries. :p

oh, so i give you an answer you don't like and you change the question?

business as usual for the deceitful, hopeless righties who when vexed by arguments out of the left side of their mouths, refute themselves with the right.

Victory, they claim!!

Its as bad the two drunk dingleberries in the bar who put their quarter on the table of a guy whose been kicking ass all night long....and then ask to play doubles.

Then, after a long protracted match in which the brothers dingleberry muck up the table with inadvisable shots, they win because you sink the eight ball on a double-banker the long way. Not content to humbly count their blessings they hoop and holler, high fivin white guyin' it all over the bar as if winners of some grand Homerian conflict as you quietly replace your quarter.

Ultimately...who' the loser?

AuntyM

I would feel so much better about this war if TK and Scowak were there looking after our troops.
------------------------------------------------------------

TheKing offered me a deal where he would head to Iraq if I would flip some burgers and I agreed.

I will double my recipe and send burgers to Scowaky too, if asked. The King, I know the deal you offered and I agreed to, was between you and me, but what the heck, I'll be a sport and get burgers to him as well, while you two help hold down the frontline, in the War on terror. I will be so proud to know that my burgers were enjoyed by the most patriotic guy's ever to pick up a mouse.

You THEKING and SCOTT soooo SCOWACY, will be remembered more for your bravery and your ("Give me Iraqi Libery or give me dealth") will and determination, than any other Americans of our time, other than your leader, the Bushie.

Now go get um, the burgers will get cold. I will even throw in fries, if that help's you in the war on Iraqi terror. Don't want more of those Iraqi's, flying anymore planes into our building, do we? We all remember what they did to us on 911, don't we?

JLH,

It's nice they let you guys in the sex offender program have access to computers. Ever try fishing off the island?

"sex offender"?

where do you get this stuff?

its comments like that that expose you for the nutbag you are. a dude expresses his opinion, you don't like it, so he's a sex offender.

using a much more fluent trail of logic, by virtue of your chicken-hawkish support for an unjust war I could more easily make a case for you being a mass murderer, complicit in the deaths of thousands.

The penalty for such crimes?

I'm against the death penalty.....

Keep making idiotic comments like that, I figure you won't be around here much longer if you do.

Speaking of getting back on topic...

Anyone else notice the impeccable timing that Ashcroft exhibits with his indictment of that charity group from Texas? Although they funneled money to Hamas from '98 to '01, Ashcroft felt this week was the appropriate time to announce the indictment and his continuing "success" at fighting terrorism.

Victory!!

Can you see Dumbya and Asscroft high fivin it across the oval office?

Wonder what other 'surprises' they have in their hip pockets?

It can also be said that George W. Bush "DID NOT" I repeat "DID NOT" serve on both sides of the Veitnam conflict by "GIVING AID AND COMFORT TO AN ENEMY" like Jane Fonda.

Geoorge Bush did not vote against funding the Abrams Tank, Pa

It can also be said that George W. Bush "DID NOT" I repeat "DID NOT" serve on both sides of the Veitnam conflict by "GIVING AID AND COMFORT TO AN ENEMY" like Jane Fonda sKerry.

George Bush did not vote against funding of every defense project over the last 20 years, or refuse funding of the every equipment purchase that the military is using in our battle against Terrorism, or vote against funding for our efforts here on the homefront againsr Terrorism.

No, but Cheney did, so what's your point?

And in case you haven't noticed, Fonda's not on the ballot, so another moot point. But Kerry did serve, unlike Jr. - there's even video footage of him in a war zone. Bush can't even find all his pay stubs.

The accusation that he aided and abetted the enemy is pretty significant. Especially since he'd been awarded several medals. I'm sure you have hard data to prove that. I'd hate to think you were committing liable making false claims against a decorated war veteran, and a leading member of the team with McCain that helped repatriate all the POWs and MIAs from that war.

Although that seems to be the modis operandi of the GOP - "if you can't beat 'em with facts, assasinate them with liable."

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Psyco's like yourself often slip and reveal deep psycological problems while posting 1000 time's in less than a year. With that many posting in such a short time, it makes you wonder if it's not you that's locked up on an Island and away from the public, because of a troubling psycosis. That Fraudian slip of yours (regarding the Sex offender, penis envy, lonely Island referrances), will help with clues as to what's going on inside the mind of a cyber midget as yourself. So thirsty for the shed blood of innocent women and children (10's of thousands) that had nothing to do with 911 or WMD.

Go Harley

You said you want proof.

1. Read the book "Stolen Valor", about the pretenders and liars who made careers of slandering our military in Veitnam. This book is thoroughly documented, writtern years ago, still in print and has a whole chapter on John Kerry and his tiny group, financed by Jane Fonda and a KGB Operation.

2. Here are some more interesting reads:

What 20 years of Senate Votes Reveal ------>

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4741992/

and

John Jerry on Defense..... Did You Know....

He voted to kill the Bradley Fighting Machine
He voted to kill the M-1 Abrams Tank
He voted to kill every Aircraft Carrier laid down from 1984 through today
He voted to kill Aegis anti aircraft system
He voted to kill the F-15 Strike Eagle
He voted to Block purchase 60 F-16
He voted to Kill the P-3 Orion upgrade
He voted to kill the B-1
He voted to kill the Patriot anti Missle System
He voted to kill the FA-18
He voted to kill the B-2 (Twice)
He voted to kill the F-117

In short he has voted to kill every military appropriation for the development and deployment of every weapons system since 1988 including the purchase of body armor for our troops.

He also voted to kill all anti Terrorism activities of every agency the U.S. Governmentand to ut the funding of the FBI by 60%, to cut the funding for the CIA by 80%, and cut the funding for NSA by 80%, but then he voted to increase American Funding for the U.N. Operations by 800%.

His voting record on these issues can be easily verified by checking the Congressional Voting Record, which lists all votes on all issues brought forth. No one can deny his or her voting record as it is a matter of Public Record.

Here are teo good sites ti check on voting records:

http://www.senate.gov/reference/common/faq/how_to_votes.htm

and

htrtp://capwiz.com/c-span/dbq/issuesdbq/votesearch.dbq
(C-SPAN Vote Search)

Elected to the Senate in 1984 (20 Years as a Senator), he has proposed NO Major Legislation during that time and is a staunch party loyalist as demonstrated by his very frequent voting along party lines (even to the contrary of past votes on the same issues). In fact, as a SENIOR Senator he has never served on or in a Major Committee. To date he has servedin the following Senatorial Posts:

1) Chair, Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committtee (100th Congress)
2) Committe on Small Business (107th Congress[January 3-20, 2001 and June 6, 2001 - January 3, 2003]).

Now lets talk about all the bs attachments, addendums, and pork that were clodded on to said bills......

Don't you guys even check to see if what you're posting is crap before you post it?

Here: http://www.snopes.com/politics/kerry/weapons.asp

Sh!t I hate these catch phrases and emails the campaigns put out this time of year.........it's even worse when it winds up getting recycled because people just read it and take it as gospel. "Kerry killed every defense spending bill singlehandedly." "Bush Responsible for Every Death Worldwide".

I'm sure Snopes is part of some liberal media conspiracy, though.

Hey ACT,

Despite your admirable effort to shine a light of truth on the darkness of the most liberal member (John Kerry) of the senates voting record--I have discovered that liberals don't acknowledge or accept facts.

Facts are delt with by using logic.

Liberals like to deal with things by using emotion and feelings, i.e.-if it feels good -do it.

In discussing John Kerry's character and pointing out his countless flip-flops by comparing his public statements to his voting record, I've been challenged to ,"show me the mans words." What the challenger(s) didn't and still don't realize is that talk is cheap-- a persons actions and or votes are what speak the loudest about their true character.

The left secretly does not generally 'feel good' about John Kerry--they are wrapped up in the Anybody But Bush MoveOn.org mentality, and will take anything they can get. If Dennis Kusinich was the nominee--He'd be their man.
Not because he was good for America, but because his last name wasn't Bush.

Up till now John Kerry has had pretty much a free ride in the media, but now America is beggining to focus on the upcoming election.

The more they examine John Kerry's undisputible liberal ideology that is to the left of Jimmy Carter and Ted Kennedy and become aware of his inconsistant-wavering political stances that are fuled more by focus groups than conviction--the more they will not "feel good' about the thought as him being Commander and Cheif at this challenging period in American history.

This makes perfect sense to you and me because it's logical, but for the dedicated liberals on the left--it doesn't 'feel good'.

Fortunately there is only small amount of people in this country who proudly call themselves committed liberals--That's not to say they should be committed.

Dedicated committed liberals like Phil Donahue and Michael Moore who are supporting John Kerry are the execption and not the rule. They and their politics may be popular here in the Peoples Repulic of Seattle-- they're considered heroes by those who sit in the shaddow of Vladimir Lennon's statue in Freemont--But there are alot of logical people out there who don't look down on America, capitalism and democracy.

Michael Moore said yesterday addressing a group in a forum called Progressive (liberal) politics and the Democratic Party at the DNC in Boston,

"Canadians are alot like us (Americans)--only better."

He then went on to say America needs to vote for Kerry.

Most Americans don't think Canadians are better than the citizens of the United States--and most Americans won't vote for a dedicated liberal who flip-flops like John Kerry.

I didn't see many facts there. :p

And let's not kid ourselves..........elections run on emotion as much as anything.

The only question is whether or not you want to get all caught up in it yourself.

DanS

Don't you guys even check to see if what you're posting is crap before you post it?
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Obviously not! As so illustrated in the presentation as fact in the above example.

H20,

Libs like two sets of rules one for them and one for the rest of the world.

"its comments like that that expose you for the nutbag you are. a dude expresses his opinion, you don't like it, so he's a sex offender."

I and others express our views and we are chicken hawks and cowards? Where is the outrage H20 ? for the sake of cosistancy on your part.

Thanks, Dan, for saving me the trouble of posting that again for the late comers.

Additionally, here's some info from the Washington Post (12/16/84) and Congressional Testimony (2/1/90):
[i]"(Cheney) also chastised Reagan's defense policies - the same policies
conservatives are trumpeting as Reagan's lasting legacy. Cheney said at the
height of the Cold War that if Reagan "doesn't really cut defense, he
becomes the No. 1 special pleader in town." Cheney urged Reagan to cut
defense spending, saying, "the president has to reach out and take a whack
at everything to be credible," and told the White House that "you've got to
hit defense."

Six years later, Cheney followed through on his statements by changing the
same Reagan defense policies he now touts. In 1990, he bragged to Congress
that as Defense Secretary he "cut almost $65 billion out of the five-year
defense program" and that subsequent proposals would "take another $167
billion out." He highlighted, "we're recommending base closures," "we're
talking about force structure cuts" and "we've got a military construction
freeze."

Here\'s another link that points out more GOP misleading statements.


And, again, you haven't proven where Kerry's actions amounted to aiding and abetting the enemy. The book is the opinion of the author and pure conjecture on his part.

elvis-

obviously, it needs to be spelled out for you.

Chicken-hawk is a fair characterization of your 'support' for the war effort. You support the war, but are too chicken to follow through.

There is a basis for the characterization. I'm sure its distasteful to you but you have to live with that, don't you? Recall what people did when they believed in the cause of WWII? They enlisted....

If I believed in this war, like I did the first war in Iraq, I'd enlist. I tried the first time....

Now....please explain to us how 'sex offender' is a fair characterization?

...and when you're done stammering for an answer, consider juxtaposing your conversational technique against your 'religious beliefs'.

See you in Hell.

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goharley,

Don't you think that the North Vietnamese Communists had their morale aided, abetted and lifted when a U.S. Naval Officer who had served in Vietnam--went before the Senate and testified to the WHOLE WORLD that the American sevice men in S.E. Asia were RAPISTS and BABY KILLERS and that he himself was a WAR CRIMINAL like thousands of others serving there and fighting what he said was an illeagal and unjust war?

He gave this testimony that undoubtably aided and abetted the enemy while his 'brothers in arms' were still actively engaging the North Vietnamese Communists in S.E. Asia.

He gave this testimony while men like John McCain were still being held captive by the North Vietnamese communists in the Hanoi Hilton.

While his 'brothers in arms' were still fighting the communists he publically threw away the medals he was awarded in Vietnam while working with Hanoi Jane Fonda's radical pro-communist group Vietnam Veterans Against the War.

This is why Hanoi John Kerry's picture is proudly and prominently desplayed in a Ho Chi Minh City communist museum.

I know these things don't 'feel good', but they are the true facts.

Tonight at the DNC's climax you'll here from a small handfull of Vietnam Veterans who depite being referred to as RAPISTS and BABY KILLERS actually claim to like Hanoi John Kerry.
You'll see a movie put together by E.T.'s director that shows footage of John Kerry (that according to men that served with him-John Kerry correographed himself) filmed with the color movie camera he brought with him into the heat of battle. The same type of movie camera that Mcarthur brought with him to re-create his triumphant landing and return to the Phillippians.

For anyone out there that wants to read unfiltered and unscripted first-hand accounts from John Kerry's real 'brothers in arms' of how John Kerry's actions aided and abetted the North Vietnamese communists....

Check out:

http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnkerry.com

Viet Nam Veterans, huh? Well, since THEY were there, and I wasn't, I won't claim to know more about what happened in Nam than they do.

Did they become Communists automatically once they decided they were against the war?

Do you really think the North Vietnamese sitting in there grass huts, tunnels, and caves had access to US newspapers, TVs, and Congressional hearings to even know what Kerry was doing?

But if you sincerely believe that one man's actions can have that profound of an affect on an army that doesn't even speak or read english, then maybe he does have some unique leadership qualities.

Your opinion is based on conjecture. Find some documents, some proof. Where's the Viet Cong propoganda using Kerry's name during the war?

If your assertions are true, I guarantee you that there would be documented proof.

Typical of the GOP, you keep harping on the negative aspect of his actions after he served in combat. You fail to recognize the thousands of lives his actions saved by helping bring an end to the war. But then you don't recognize the thousands of lives lost during this war, either. :rolleyes:

Oh, and don't forget, he was there.

H20,

So now name calling has degree? A lib can justify anything it seems. There is an old saying about people and glass houses. Ever heard it?

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Dan S

It's nice to have you back poking fun at both sides.

Vietnam Veterans Against the War was the name of the group headed up by Hanoi Jane Fonda--I'm sure there were a few actual Vietnam veterans in the group, but the majority of it's membership was made up of spoiled malcontent college students that wanted to see capitalism and democrocy repalced with an idealistic communist form of government.

If you want more than my word on it- look into it for yourself at:

http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnkerry.com

http://www.vietnamveteransagainstkerry.com

http://www.wintersoldier.com

Two of those links didn't work, but judging by the name I can tell they're absolutely non-partison, right? :rolleyes:

The Winter Soldier story was debunked here earlier this year. Opinionated conjecture and inconsistent deductions.

Oh, but the photo they use to support their "aiding the enemy" claim is wonderful. However, they failed to mention it was taken while he and McCain were there together reestablishing diplomatic relations so they could repatriate POWs and MIAs. There are many American families that owe him a great deal of gratitude for enabling their loved ones to come home.

Not being a vet it probably doesn't mean as much to you, though. But the way you jump on that "Hanoi Jane" bandwagon sure makes you sound like one, huh?

Amazing that a Chicken hawks can lift a mouse in an attempt to restart the Vietnam War. The Vietnam war was a mistake as history has revealed. If it's blood you seek in Vietnam why din't you choose to go and get your hands dirty? Just like Bush, you criticise the soldiers (John Kerry) who actually went to war and won medals of honor in Vietnam, while you sit back in Typical Chicken Hawk fashion waving a flag and never serving. Why aren't you pissed at Bush for avoiding Vietnam? I'm sure veterans everywhere are asking that question after seeing his weak military record (AWOL)and all it's holes.

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I've added the .com that should allow you to go directly to sites that show what the Vietnam veterans that John Kerry called "RAPISTS and BABY KILLERS" really think of Hanoi John Kerry.

http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnkerry.com

http://www.vietnamveteransagainstkerry.com

http://www.wintersoldier.com

http://www.swiftvets.com



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It's kind of funny that in 1971 John Kerry threw the medals he was awarded away--but now in 2004 when he thinks it's politically advantageuos he braggs about having been awarded them.
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My grandfather volunteered for the military right after the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor in 1941. He served until the after conclusion of the war, and was one of thousands of men who landed on and took Normandy beach, eventually fighting the Nazi's back to Germany until Hitler committed suicide and Germany formally surrendered to the Allied forces in 1945, followed by Japan's formal surrender after we dropped 'fat man and little boy'.

Growing up I had the good fortune to spend countless hours with my grandfather who taught me how to fish along with a few other of lifes more important lessons, and I can count on two hands with a couple of fingers left over how many times he talked about his military service. When he did speak about being involved in WWII, it certainly wasn't in a bragging manner so as to build up his own persona to any within earshot.

My grandfather passed on in October of 1995, and it wasn't until his memorial service in a small church in Aberdeen Washington that was packed to the rafters with family and friends that I learned about him being wounded during the war and how highly decorated he was for his bravery.

I didn't learn about his valor on the battlefield from my grandfather because he was never one to blow his own horn. He like all humble warriors believed that when your country sends you off to war--the only real heroes are the ones who leave a piece of themselves on the battlefield and comeback less than physically whole, or those who don't come back at all.

I miss my grandpa

Had your grandfather run for president he would have had to blow his own horn....kinda goes with the territory. Certainly military command is worthy of consideration in a presidential race, usually works out best for republicans but this time....? What will be funny is to see how fast you forget we had this conversation once the shoe is back on the other foot....

...oh, say in about eight years.

Sounds to me like you could still learn a thing or two from grandpa if you tried.

"The Vietnam war was a mistake as history has revealed"

It remains such in popular opinion because most of America quit reading about it. The conflict in Vietnam paved the way for the fall of the USSR which has been well documented.

TK

It remains such in popular opinion because most of America quit reading about it. The conflict in Vietnam paved the way for the fall of the USSR which has been well documented.
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Are the books you referring to the one's that have Bush receiving many purple hearts for bravery in the line of fire while he served with honor in Vietnam? I'm still looking for that book. Only thing acomplished in Vietnam was a pile of corpses. To many of our own, including family and friends for a failed policy.

By the way Chicken Hawk, we are still waiting for you to put up or shut up. Your love for war while being a big fat Chicken Hawk is amazing. For a guy that could care less about the live's of other's in harm way, while cheering them own, suggests that you are a super coward, not brave enough to put it all on the line or risking the ultimate sacrifice in (your favorite) GW's war on Iraqi terror.

You are TheKing of disfunctional Chicken Hawks, best known as "The Mouse That Roares." I don't look forward to your 3000th post here in record breaking time(less than one year). If so, that means that we can expect piles of non-sense from TheKing Chicken and his over active but impotent mouse. I will be sure to have my handy shovel at the ready because, at the rate you're posting ( appx. 1100 or so posts), it's sure to get pretty smelly.

JLH,

If you layed off the Yoga books and the kiddy porn you might have some time for non revisionist history.

again with the sexual stuff.

methinks someone is a 'little' frustrated.

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Maybe if John Lee Hookum keeps practicing yoga--he'll eventually get limber enough to be able to pull his own head out of his own a$$.......maybe

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AuntyM,

I did not and would not suggest that my opinion was any better qualified than anyone elses'. As I've said before, American citizens ALL have a right to an opinion--it's anti-American to suggest anything to the contrary.

The point I was trying to make is that my grandpa, like your father and father-in-law were perfect examples of why their's was called the greatest generation.

They did what had to be done--and didn't spend the rest of their lives trying to be patted on the back for it, unlike a certain senator from Massachusetts we've come to know.

H20,
It's about as accurate as the chicken hawk stuff you endorse.
I was in Joyce at the store on Wednesday I asked if anyone there knew you. An old timer gave me this photo of you is that your brother or dad with you. I have not been on the Oly pen for a while I forgot that is where they get most of the extras for Village of the Damned to save on make up and special effects.

http://www.piscatorialpursuits.com/uploads/UP5782.jpg

TheKing

If you layed off the Yoga books and the kiddy porn you might have some time for non revisionist history.
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That's the problem with reading someone's else's version of history. I don't need to read a book about Vietnam, The majority fully understood the issue's involved with Vietnam of that time. That's why Nixon (a Republican) brought our troops home.

I have one question, Why are you so fixated on perverted Sex? That's the second time that a Fraudian slip has revieled deep psycholical problems, causing rants and your thirst for blood and gore. I suggest that you see a Psychiatrist right away. He will help you get to the root cause of your illness. Could be early childhood trama (that's blocked from memory because it's so painful),caused by incest or molestations that's manifested in your rants, here on this board. When you look up and see the sky bleeding you need to know that it is delusional and not real blood, but clouds. They are white and fluffy clouds to everyone else and not to be feared by you. You probably have a history of breaking the legs off frogs or shooting cats with your BB gun. Those are sighs of a serious but treatable psychosis.

Now go get help, we are pulling for you. You're just sick right now, but "Hope is on the Way." Had to steal that one from Kerry and Edwards.

Don't worry about enlisting at this time because you will probably be declared inelligible for mental reasons. Your being a Chicken Hawk is not a more serious problem than the Sexual perversions and abuse issues. It's a difficult psychological condition, and most times it's best to keep people with those issues off the street, as a public saftey measure. But, seeing a continuous stream of posts here, means that you are not out victimizing some innocent little boys or girls but here at PP playing with your mouse. Sort of your way of masterbating.

Jlh,

"I don't need to read a book about Vietnam"

No need to tell us it shows!

I've seen enough.

I am still waiting for other shoe to drop Goharley.....

The 'capture' of Zarqawi?

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I am well advanced in my practice and plenty limber enough to not ever have my head stuck up my a$$, as you obviouly do. I would suggest that you get with the program and look into it for yourself. Your head definitly needs an uncorking. You will enjoy the fresh air so much better once you learn to breath after Yoga assists you, while also keeping your head free and out of your a$$. It is sure to help with your out of control, psyco anger and Chicken hawkish personna. If I were you and having a stuck head that being squeeze by your butt cheeks(an O that smell), I would be open to suggestions that could possibly help and I recommend YOGA.

Namaste'

I have one question, Why are you so fixated on perverted Sex?
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Can you answer that for us Theking? You try to overlook it by avoiding my inquiry as though you are doing your best to keep a deep dark secret hidden.

I see you are questioning yourself why would you expect me to know why you are fixated :p


JLH


I have one question, Why are you so fixated on perverted Sex?
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Can you answer that for us Theking? You try to overlook it by avoiding my inquiry as though you are doing your best to keep a deep dark secret hidden