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Pmartin,

Are you heading to Grays Harbor? If so what side?

I'll be in 8-2 and 9 for the Everett Coho derby..

Good luck PM

I bet the winning fish goes 18lb plus they are big fish this year :p

Really? And what difference would that make? If Killian were a responsible CO, he would most definately NOT tell his son what he thought about GW. Even back then in the stone age 70's, there was this thing called confidentiality. His secretary would know because it was part of her job.

And he knows better what was going on in Killian's office than Killian's secretary?

Not buying it............

If Killians Secretary knew morethan Killians family then how do you explain the performance evaluations that are signed by Killian himself??

"A 1971 evaluation said Bush had the potential to "promote well ahead of his contemporaries" and added, "Lt. Bush's main strengths are his eagerness to participate in the unit's activities and his ability to work harmoniously with others." A 1970 letter recommending him for a promotion from second to first lieutenant called him "a dynamic outstanding young officer."

"Lt. Bush is possessed of sound judgment, yet is a tenacious competitor and an aggressive pilot," said the letter from Jerry Killian, then a lieutenant colonel in the Texas Air National Guard. "He is mature beyond his age and experience level."

OK, I'm calling BS on you UM! You know darn good and well that isn't a glowing evaluation. You've written more than plenty in your day. That is mediocre at best. Considering those were written BEFORE Bush disappeared to work on a failed campaign, I would say Killian was giving Bush the benefit of the doubt and once Bush showed his lack of dedication, I imagine Killian was quite disappointed with him.

You aren't gonna pull a fast one on me. I read and helped write more than enough evals over the years.

If Bush behaved the way folks claim while in YOUR division, I bet you wouldn't cover for him.

"I read and helped write more than enough evals over the years"

As a wife\family member or as a secretary??


As for his secretary, anyone have a link to the interview she did where she claimed not to have any personal knowlege of GWs guard performance? Then suddenly when the time was right (or the money? or?) her 86yr old memory becomes crystal clear...

Would it matter? I know mediocre and intent in evals. That's why I can say without a doubt, the ones Kerry received were far better.

Kerry was obviously far better than Killian at writing evals.

The only person who'd be advanced on the type of evals Bush got in this day and age is a


Woman.

AM,
For the most part you are right, there is a lot of meaningless crap in there that tells you nothing about the individuals performance, that I feel is a waste of ink in any FITREP / EVAL, but.......
If you know anything about military selection boards, a statement from a commanding officer that says to promote well ahead of his contemporaries, is a very important statement in a military evaluation and very valuable at a selection board.

I KNEW it!

UM is a US Navy CPO BEFORE a Republican! (or Senior or Master) It's in the blood! It can't be hidden.

Now... Since we know Bush's "troubles" didn't start until 1972, it IS conceivable and based on the REAL paperwork, probable, that Killian WAS disppointed with Lt. Bush, which he would have shared with his secretary.

You are correct AM, I will not say that I will always vote for a Republican ( were there ever a Dem that I truely felt would be a better choice I would definately vote for him), but I will ALWAYS (and proudly) be a Navy Chief! And if Killian did lose his faith in GWB's performance, I feel confident that as a Commanding Officer he would have provided some sort of correspondance/documentation up the chain of command that was a bit more official than just telling his secretary. I doubt if she would have had much input on the LT's career progression. So if that is the case, where is the poor performance evaluation from Killian?

UM,

Dan Rather will produce a fax of the Poor Performance Eval shortly.........


Sorry, couldn't help myslef.

:D

Good one, Dan!

AM

Have you ever got that right here's a fine example of what you're talking about:

The rest of you guys and your background noise. Sheesh!

Killian's records were removed from his office. Where did they go?
If you've seen the real documents released by the White House, then you know they never settled any of this.

We now have a federal judge ordering the pentagon to find and release all of Bush's records.

Judge Orders U.S. to Find Bush Records

Here's more on this story

Ex-Guardsman: Probe Gaps in Bush Service

I want to see the real records. Not forgeries.

Here is a link to an interesting read: Rathergate

I don't think the documents are real. I think I already said that. HOWEVER... that article does nothing to clear Bush IMO.

So now one of Killian's colleagues AND his former secretary say the same thing?

Wake up and smell the coffee ACT. If you or anyone else support GW, that's peachy. Just do it for the right reasons. You agree with how he's running the show.

Just don't try and tell me the man served with honor. I don't believe he did. Even Powell had previously stated that back in those days, NG service was akin to draft dodging in his opinion. Anyone who served in the NG (taking the easy route) and THEN blew off his obligation did not serve with honor.

She is on the record saying that Bush wasn't elected and stole the election. This is before any of this memo bs came up. Credability? Agenda? Nah... But a good try.

I just got done flipping through the news channels while tying up leaders and every news channel had something to say about this. To me it seemed mostly like sharks smelling blood. The blood bing CBS. They have their agend too. That being watching the ship go down and having a slot to move into. Both sides really have to be loving this. Don't have to spend a cent and yet the majority of the american public onces again don't have to listen to issues that will affect you and I. Go press go.

Ouch there goes that twing again.. I think this will help

Some would say that serving in Vietnam was no badge of honor. Bush was a fortunate son...big friggin deal ..good for him. He was an officer who flew jets....does that make him a dick head? Kerry was antiwar and went to war for 4 months. Came back and trashed the war some more and his fellow vietnam vets. Does that make him honorable?

In both cases...who cares?>