Aunty have I told you latly that I love you

Salmo,

lot of words there for saying nothing. Libs hate to be held personally responsible and so it goes they do not hold others responsible. It's the reason the divorce rate is over 50%. Add this topic to your list of must reads along with the middle east because you are clueless.
Anything that is a choice is preventable.

Aunty:

I didn't balme the women first, or more, nor did I defend the things that happened to those other women. I simply said that if you choose a bad partner then sometimes bad things happen, and you deserve SOME of the blame.

Vic,

Sorry. That's letting men who commit violence off the hook instead of making them take responsibility.

Not only does that type of attitude perpetuate the problem, (her fault, she choose poorly) it's harmful to children too.

Vic,

Women have been getting away with blaming men for everything for so long it is habitual at this point. They do not even see that they are degrading their own sex in the process.

Aunty:

Where did I say that it is OK to abuse kids? Where did I say we should let those guys off the hook? Why is the woman who chooses a bad partner or who chooses to stay in a bad relationship teflon? Choosing to stay in an abusive rlationship is bad for kids too...

Don't get me wrong... In my opinion there is no reason for a man to hit a woman or child. If I had knowledge of a situation where a friend or family member was involved on either side, I wouldn't allow it to continue.

FYI: I am not trying to be abrasive, or stir the pot. I genuinely find this interesting, and appreciate the exchange of ideas.

TK,

Well look who's calling who clueless! You said,
"Anything that is a choice is preventable." That will be true just as soon as certainty is a given. No person can know, with absolute certainty, that the person they are considering marrying will not turn into an abusive or intolerable partner. Therefore, the only way to prevent making a wrong choice is to choose to do nothing. As I said in my previous post, the only people who don't make mistakes are those who do nothing. That includes you, but you're so self rightous that it doesn't seem likely you'd ever be aware of it.

Sincerely,

Salmo g.

Salmo,

"No person can know, with absolute certainty, that the person they are considering marrying will not turn into an abusive or intolerable partner." Maybe not 100% but there are ways to reduce the chances significantly. One thing any seasoned crime investigator will tell you is application of Occams Razor solves in the high 90% of most cases. It is true for other areas of life as well. I am sure you are familiar with it.

http://pespmc1.vub.ac.be/OCCAMRAZ.html

The problem is there is plenty of assuming going on.

Most men put their best foot forward and don't smack on the first date or even during the courtship. It isn't until the women is invested in the relationship (income, children, in law releationships, a HOME for crying out loud!) that they begin their "domination" and physical abuse.

And lest you forget, some of them make threats to kill the woman's loved ones (or himself) if she leaves. Happens all the time and is one of the reasons most women stay, thinking an occasional beating is worth the lives of loved ones.

In most of those cases, I don't put any blame on the woman.

That doesn't mean women are blameless in every situation. There are many females that will take advantage of good men and can also be quite abusive. Mostly emotional abuse. Not really much you can do about them either.

Wow, this one is pretty deep. Unfortunately, there is not a "one size fits all" cause or solution to the "victim paradigm here." We would all like to have nice, concise reason as to why violence occurs generically in families, but studies regarding "why" do not come to a finite societal cause or genetic disposition.

Tk, Achem's razor is used as an exercize in logic, and by no means it is used by anybody to determine any kind of an absolute for anything. Used to have alot of fun with it in collage.

BW,

It tells us that the simplest answer is generally correct and should be looked at before more complicated theories. In this example individual choices leading to a predictable outcome. Crime investigasstors will also tell you that victims act like victims and regression analysis models can be used to develop psychological profiles of potential abuse victims as much as they can identify abusers. BTW I see many more women abusing men in my daily life than I see the classic male abusers. One is more generally accepted than the other in our society.

Actually is says

" All things being equal, the simplest answer tends to be the best."

Just a little different from what you said. As far as criminal investigators are concered it could only be used to give them some sort of direction to persue.

An example

TK is an intellect of almost Freudian magnitude. Able to solve all the countries ill's before lunch.

OR

It's all so much BS.. :p

The simplest answer, (which is rather obvious) is that the practice persists because people make excuses for the abusers instead of holding them accountable for their actions. Society is slowly changing towards taking domestic violence serious except for the dirtbags like the above who prefer never to take responsibility but instead, blame others.

BW, I did NOT mean you. However, I know for a fact that yuo like being abused by women.

Busted

Aunty:

"except for the dirtbags like the above who prefer never to take responsibility but instead, blame others."

If you were refering to me then that is a pretty bold statement considering you don't know me. I am not sure how this got personal. For my part I have tried to be respectful of your views and offer another side. I thought the whole idea of this forum was to exchange ideas and hopefuly learn from each other.

All the prerequisites exist for abuse to take place before the abuser is even known. The victim just needs to make the choice of abusers. The variables are independant of sex. However sex changes the order of the varaibles. Much like substance abuse,obesity etc.our society accepts symptoms as cause rather than the cause itself. There is more money to be made treating symptoms.

Vic,

You don't qualify as a dirtbag. I was referencing TK and his excuses why it's OK to physically abuse women. He is unable to acknowledge when he and his twisted opinions are wrong. We're kind of used to him now.

BK,

How's fishing? You haven't given me a report in ages. Is that because DL is outfishing you?

Glad to know I haven't reached dirtbag status.

I will say the women that I know, who have been in abusive realtionships, have been in more than one (I can think of 2 that I know). I know it isn't very scientific, but in my mind it seems to back up the choice thing.