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#276299 - 01/17/05 02:51 AM Re: This can't be good for Gregiore
skydriftin Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 01/26/02
Posts: 306
Loc: everett,wa
Rory ,I could be mistaken but I believe the other one is you

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#276300 - 01/17/05 11:35 AM Re: This can't be good for Gregiore
Theking Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 4908
Loc: The right side of the line
I am suprised that no one is discussing what Chrissy had to say in her inauguration speech. Specifically that she wanted to fund pre K programs in public schools. Never mind the fact that the sales tax increase to fund PreK education proposed failed with the voters in a landslide . Maybe she thinks we like new taxes for such programs just not new sales taxes?
And who are the people that think she will listen Re:fish?
_________________________
Liberalism is a mental illness!

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#276301 - 01/17/05 11:56 AM Re: This can't be good for Gregiore
BW Offline
Spawner

Registered: 04/04/00
Posts: 763
Loc: LAKEWOOD,WA,USA
Looking at everything George has done, do you really think Dino cares about sports fishers?
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#276302 - 01/17/05 01:02 PM Re: This can't be good for Gregiore
Theking Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 4908
Loc: The right side of the line
A few people here based their vote for CG on the fact that she seemed more likely to listen. Appears she is ont at least on the PReK issue. Dragging Dino in is moot because he is not the Gov. Unless you want to be emotional about it and bring up every republican issue since ol Abe it serves what purpose?
_________________________
Liberalism is a mental illness!

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#276303 - 01/17/05 01:32 PM Re: This can't be good for Gregiore
BW Offline
Spawner

Registered: 04/04/00
Posts: 763
Loc: LAKEWOOD,WA,USA
My point is this. She has been in office for what a week or so. How about giving her a little time. At this point nobody knows what kind of Gov she is going to be.

In other words you seem to be jumping the gun JUST a little.
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#276304 - 01/17/05 01:45 PM Re: This can't be good for Gregiore
ACT Offline
Juvenille at Sea

Registered: 11/25/02
Posts: 228
Loc: Port Townsend, WA
Quote:
Originally posted by BW:
My point is this. She has been in office for what a week or so. How about giving her a little time. At this point nobody knows what kind of Gov she is going to be.

In other words you seem to be jumping the gun JUST a little.
If how she ran the Attorney General's Office is any indication. It'll be business as usual.

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#276305 - 01/17/05 01:51 PM Re: This can't be good for Gregiore
Rory Bellows Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 1557
Loc: Third stone from the sun
Quote:
Originally posted by BW:
My point is this. She has been in office for what a week or so. How about giving her a little time. At this point nobody knows what kind of Gov she is going to be.
------------------------------------------------------------

Christine Gagmore is Gary Lockes hand picked successor.

During her inagruation speech she spoke of what a terrific governor Gary Locke was. TK already made mention of the fact that she's already is talking about emplementing programs at tax payers expense that taxpayers have soundly voted down at the ballot box~ala Locke.

Oh yeah, she's going to be completely different from Locke.
_________________________
"Yes, I would support raising taxes"--Kanektok Kid

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#276306 - 01/17/05 01:58 PM Re: This can't be good for Gregiore
BW Offline
Spawner

Registered: 04/04/00
Posts: 763
Loc: LAKEWOOD,WA,USA
You know what ,I would even give a GOP at least three months before going off on them. I get the idea that it would be impossable for her to please RB and a few others here.

If you don't want taxes to increase, what services do you want to cut? What state employees do you want to lay off? For that matter what ideas do you have to balance the budjet? Anyone that ends up Gov, is going to have a hard and for the most part thank less job ahead of them.

I don't really want to pay highter taxes any more than you. But sometimes there is no other way. If there is lets hear them.
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Everyone's superman behind the keyboard

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#276307 - 01/17/05 02:20 PM Re: This can't be good for Gregiore
Rory Bellows Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 1557
Loc: Third stone from the sun
Quote:
Originally posted by BW:

If you don't want taxes to increase, what services do you want to cut? What state employees do you want to lay off.....

I don't really want to pay highter taxes any more than you. But sometimes there is no other way. If there is lets hear them.
------------------------------------------------------------

In making these statements, you're assuming that ALL tax dollars are spent so wisely and effectively that there is no waste (fat/pork) that could be cut without having to eliminate nessesary sevices---I think that's a false assumption.

I know that most democrats automatically 'feel' that raising taxes is always the answer--I don't happen to share their 'feelings'.

I believe when confronted with a budget challenge, raisng taxes should be the last option considered and not automatically the first.
_________________________
"Yes, I would support raising taxes"--Kanektok Kid

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#276308 - 01/17/05 02:29 PM Re: This can't be good for Gregiore
BW Offline
Spawner

Registered: 04/04/00
Posts: 763
Loc: LAKEWOOD,WA,USA
Actually no I am not assuming that. But I am saying prove it. It's easy to complain about tax problems. But I never hear anything specific. So, lets hear it.
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#276309 - 01/17/05 02:55 PM Re: This can't be good for Gregiore
Theking Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 4908
Loc: The right side of the line
We graduate only 2/3rds of the eligible seniors in this state how is funding PreK going to help change that. If you graded Wa. schools for the tax dollars spent where do we stack up? I thought preK programs where the responsiblity of the parents?
_________________________
Liberalism is a mental illness!

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#276310 - 01/17/05 03:00 PM Re: This can't be good for Gregiore
Rory Bellows Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 1557
Loc: Third stone from the sun
Quote:
Originally posted by BW:

Actually no I am not assuming that. But I am saying prove it. It's easy to complain about tax problems. But I never hear anything specific. So, lets hear it.
------------------------------------------------------------


One thing we could do in this state to $ave several MILLION$ of dollar$ would be to have a statewide School Voucher System that allowed parents of K-12 students a choice of where to send their children to school (either public or private).

We (the tax payers) are currently spending an average of almost $10,000 annually per student on the poorly managed and fiscally irresponsible Seattle Education Assoc./NEA/WEA union controlled Washington public schools.

If parents wanted to send their kids to the ineffective, overpriced and poorly managed Seattle Education Assoc./WEA/NEA controlled public schools, they'd have that choice.

If they wanted to send there kids to more effectively managed and less expensive private schools that had greater percentage of its students graduating with higher test scores and attending college, they would have that choice too.

The competition for $$'s from competing schools would eventually force public schools to teach more effectively and to operate lean and mean like private schools have to now, and you'ld see A LOT of pork cut from the public schools. And you'ld see an over-all improvement in the quality of education that our children receive--as they say, 'a rising tide lifts all boats'.

_________________________
"Yes, I would support raising taxes"--Kanektok Kid

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#276312 - 01/17/05 03:20 PM Re: This can't be good for Gregiore
BW Offline
Spawner

Registered: 04/04/00
Posts: 763
Loc: LAKEWOOD,WA,USA
I agree with you on pre K schooling.

However private schools can be selective on who they allow in. I have a problem with that.
_________________________
Everyone's superman behind the keyboard

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#276313 - 01/17/05 04:17 PM Re: This can't be good for Gregiore
Theking Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 4908
Loc: The right side of the line
AM,,I agree with you. They should be with mom , dad, grandparents,anuts and uncles if at all possible. Nothing wrong with a few hours a week in a private program. We see a big difference in the attention level of kids coming in to kinder because of system socialization . Gives them about a 90 day head start. That is taking into consideration that the teachers in our system have access to unlimited parental volunteer hours to work with the kids that have not seen PreK. My son's K teacher came from inner city Seattle and says there was less than 10% of the parent resource she sees out here. I believe it is state funded daycare in disguise. I think the funds would be better suited to address other issues. We needaccountability that dollars will add up on the back end.
_________________________
Liberalism is a mental illness!

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#276314 - 01/17/05 06:30 PM Re: This can't be good for Gregiore
Arklier Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 05/30/01
Posts: 403
Quote:
Originally posted by Rory Bellows:

One thing we could do in this state to $ave several MILLION$ of dollar$ would be to have a statewide School Voucher System that allowed parents of K-12 students a choice of where to send their children to school (either public or private).
I don't agree with that. I don't want my tax money to go to sending kids to private school. Do you really think the state could give out enough money to send kids whose parents couldn't afford much over the voucher to private school? Private schools costs more than going to the UW in a lot of cases. It would just end up being a big fat tax break to people who are already rich enough to send their kids to private school, while the poor and middle class send their kids to public school anyway.

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#276315 - 01/17/05 07:56 PM Re: This can't be good for Gregiore
ACT Offline
Juvenille at Sea

Registered: 11/25/02
Posts: 228
Loc: Port Townsend, WA
Quote:
Originally posted by Arklier:
Quote:
Originally posted by Rory Bellows:

One thing we could do in this state to $ave several MILLION$ of dollar$ would be to have a statewide School Voucher System that allowed parents of K-12 students a choice of where to send their children to school (either public or private).
I don't agree with that. I don't want my tax money to go to sending kids to private school. Do you really think the state could give out enough money to send kids whose parents couldn't afford much over the voucher to private school? Private schools costs more than going to the UW in a lot of cases. It would just end up being a big fat tax break to people who are already rich enough to send their kids to private school, while the poor and middle class send their kids to public school anyway.
I don't agree with the School Voucher issue as I have no children or grandchildren in either public or private school systems and yet I am taxed by both the State and the local School District. We have Public Timberlands which are set aside as School Blocks with the revenues from these lands supposed to go to a General Fund to be divided up among the schools for Capital Improvements and Operations, yet we can't harvest timber from these lands because it is detrimential to some Owls well being, so who gets the bill for the revenues not recieved from these timber sales. You and I in the form of increased property taxes. Now you carry this a step farther you give dole out School Tax Revenues in ther Form of School Vouchers that is then monies taken from the School's Fiscal Budget for operating cost. Now who ends up paying the shortfall in their Budget? It's you and I in the form of higher Property Taxes and those of us who are on a fixed income can't afford it.

You asked where would yoou start if you were going to scale down. Here's a couple of radical Ideas: 1) instead of laying off some of the indians, how about getting rid of some of the Chiefs. 2) get rid of some the deadwood that are Tenured who are not doing their Job. 3) actually teach the children the basics, it's crimminal when children come out of the school system and can't even balance a check book or write a common business letter and yet the Local School District calls them "Honor Students." 4) Spend special Levy Monies and General Fund Monies for what they were appropriated for not window dressing and /or pheasability (sp) studies to give some self professed expert a job, who in most cases don't know their rear end from a hole in a ground. Let them go out and find a job instead of living off the Taxpayer.

This applies to all forms of Government not just the schools

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#276316 - 01/17/05 09:09 PM Re: This can't be good for Gregiore
Rory Bellows Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 1557
Loc: Third stone from the sun
It doesn't matter whether you have children or grandchildren currently enrolled in the public school system or not--if you own real estate in Washington a portion of your property taxes goes towards funding K-12 education.

If you knew how much pork (waste) there was in our current SEA/NEA/WEA Union controlled public school system you would be sick.

The Voucher System I suggested would not require more taxes, but the competiton for education $$'s would go a long way towards trimming the 'pork/fat' in public schools and make all schools operate at more efficient and productive levels.

You can send children to a SEA/WEA/NEA Union controlled public schools that are ineffective and poorly managed for almost $10,000 a year and have about 2/3's of them graduate HS--or you can send them much better managed private schools that have over 90 % of their students not only graduate from HS, but go on to attend college for less than $6,500 a year.

Whether you want to or not, as a home owner you're investing in this system. I for one like to get the best return on my investments.
_________________________
"Yes, I would support raising taxes"--Kanektok Kid

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#276318 - 01/17/05 10:11 PM Re: This can't be good for Gregiore
ACT Offline
Juvenille at Sea

Registered: 11/25/02
Posts: 228
Loc: Port Townsend, WA
Screw the NEA & WEA their nothing but ba bunch of over paid baby sitters it's kind of hard finding sympathy for them when the Gov't tells you that the Cost of Living has only gone up 1.7 % or 2.8% and their asking for 10 or 15% raise in salary.

The same for DSHS they need to fire about three quarters of their work force and get rid of all the Dyke's and Manhaters on their staff and actually start to serve the people they are supposed to be there to help.

A good case in point is the DSHS Worker who after hearing my neices tell her that daddy was molesting them accused their daddy of molesting the girls without investigating the case. Their Daddy was paralyized from the neck down in a wheel chair and when he had the girls it was in the presence of other family members including his mother. The Daddy that was doing the Molesting was the mother's live in boyfriend. She was making the girls call him "Daddy." It's not just an isolated case sadly it's common in DSHS. they need need to clean house in a DSHS and a lot of other state agencies get rid of the deadwood and hangers on. That would go a long way in giving us quality education.

Where is the money going from the State Lottery it was sold to us as a answer all to help solve our Education crisis.

State Government and our education system is like a black hole we keep throwing money into it and don't and don't see any return maybe it's time we ought to throw all the administrators out and start from scratch with the Taxes going to pay for teaching the Three R's and stop paying exhorbent salaries to Administrators who can't seem to grasp the concept of it's educate the children not feather their nest and creating study after study stating why their feeding at the public trough is necessary.

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#276319 - 01/17/05 10:33 PM Re: This can't be good for Gregiore
Fisherdan Offline
Juvenille at Sea

Registered: 12/12/00
Posts: 186
Loc: Auburn, Wa, USA
Hey Aunty, long time, no-see. Save me some shrimp.

OK, so I have to jump in on the private school voucher issue.

I also pay a pretty high tax load, but I do have three kids currently in private school. My kid's school costs about $5,500/year apiece. Obviously, that's a big chunk of change for most people I know, but we pay it willingly because of the quality of education my kids get.

Am I against vouchers? Heck no! The current public system turns out kids that test well below what our little under-funded private school does, yet they spend WAY more per kid. I'm fortunate, because I got a good education and make a good living so I can afford to pay taxes into the public school system I'll never use and still put my kids thru private school. But I think it would be ABSOLUTELY GREAT if a single mother who could never afford it got the chance to place her kid in a better school - especially if the better school was actually LESS COSTLY than the current beaurocratically bloated public school system. I'm trying to figure out how that can be a bad thing.... Her kid goes to the school of choice and it costs the tax payers less. Seems like a win-win situation to me.

Hey, I guess that makes me PRO-CHOICE after all!!!! \:\)

Hope to see you at Seiku.
_________________________
Thanks,

Fisherdan

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#276320 - 01/17/05 10:34 PM Re: This can't be good for Gregiore
Arklier Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 05/30/01
Posts: 403
I don't have kids, and nor am I a home owner (though that will eventually change). There's better ways to improve education than by just giving money away to whoever wants to shuffle their kids off to a private school (which, might I add, have their own issues).

Plus there's the fact that many private schools are religious schools to some extent or another, and that opens a whole new can of worms.

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