Phish-yes you seem to be exceedingly good at tuning out all but what you want to hear, I'll agree with you there. You are a wolrd class tuner outer.

Keep telling yourself science is a liberal plot to discredit King George, whatever helps you live with yourself.

Aunty-I give up. Check the congressional voting record for a good look at partisan environmental policy. I know the dems have done their damage as well (im not familiar with your states history in the slightest unfortunately)but check that voting record and you will see who the slash and burn party is.

I any case, no point beating a dead horse, if its been done to death here and gomer still thinks Bush is good for fish, more power to him and the other residents of Make Beleivesville.

“again you are not reading what I posted.”

Here is what you said:

"are you seriously debating whether or not Bush has been bad for ... your sport fisheries? Its not a partisan issue, its fact."

I just asked you to show me a specific impact on YOUR SPORT FISHERY. Can’t do it, can ya….


“overwhelming evidence to the contrary.”

Is this your overwhelming evidence??

“My gramps believes that crap Phish. “

Oh, and some poll you cut and pasted from… I’m overwhelmed with the evidence

a personal account and a posted article is about as good as evidence as your gonna get over the net. Unfortunately i cannot take you by your hockey helmet and drag you over to some goober who can whisper in your ear that he believes that crap, but people do believe it.

"The federal government only spends about a penny per day per U.S. resident to address this problem, but the Bush administration has asked Congress to slash clean water measures by more than $500 million in the coming year. "

"America’s Most Endangered Rivers of 2005"

"#4 Skykomish River (WA)
Runaway development threatens to foul the clear waters of the Skykomish River, known for its fishing and other outdoor activities, working farms, forests, and rural quality of life.
"

There ya go. He asks for cuts in a program designed to protect my fishery. This is a direct impact to my personal fishery. Goodnight. Sleeptight.

------------------------------------------------------------

Just out of curiousity, how many of these objective non-partisan UW scientists have pony tails, drive Suburu Stationwagons and think Ron Sims is a great King County Executive?

100% Rory, and they are all lesbian anarchists as well!

Chives, I certainly don't fault you for not being around sooner. But trust me... you are not telling us anything we don't already know. All last year we hammered the neocons on the environmental issues. But that doesn't absolve the Dems for ignoring the harvest side of the issue or swinging the other direction if it suits their purposes.

A recent example in WA is Gregoire's comments about the Columbia spill issue. I was suprised to learn she did NOT take the fish friendly position. She took the power industry's side.

I read Salmo g's insights on that thread and found reason enough to doubt the Judge considered all the applicable science, or may have overlooked some. There may be legitimate and unbiased science contrary to what most pro fish folks thought about spill under differing conditions.

Sometimes we get an idea stuck so firmly in our heads we can't let go of it.

So are all scientists a buncha liberals out to get Bush? Is that really what you all believe?
Do you believe they planted dinosaur bones to make Jeebus look bad?

What abot non-american scientists? surely they are above partisan Bush bashing? or does your disdain for all things foreign allow you to dismiss their research as well?
Are you alllike really religious types or something? Intelligent design proponents?
is that what this is all about? Science is partisan and non-objective to you all?

Im not really surprised on this board to find that out but it is a wee bit depressing.

Yes all scientists are only doing their reserach so they can make Bush look bad, its true. Now you can all go safely back to your bibles secure in the knowledge theat the earth is only a couple thousand years old, and we sprang from ash..

I worked for the USGS and the Earth and Space Science, and Oceanography departments at the UW. I worked very closely with many scientists from many diffferent economic social and political backgrounds on a daily basis. These are the people who are experts on your local rivers, fisheries, ocean, air, etc and they All expressed their unsolicited extreme displeasure for Bush's environmental policies, and his contempt for science in general.

I am sure there are fish experts here, and Im sure people like Phish are eager to ignore them or discount what they say as liberal propaganda to "put dumbya in a bad light"."

Chives ,

These scientist do not have to balance the needs of the majority with those of the minority. So they can have a idealistic view and preach from up on high from an ivory tower. The scientist think the avg. person would be better of with wild fish. When in reality the Avg. person could care less. There is more to this country than the NW. It is proven by the population exansion and the lifestyles of the avg. person here and everywhere. People are children they think they can have it both ways.

I bet all the people ,roads, homes, business' and industries on the west coast have killed more fish and will continue to kill more fish than any Bush backed environmental policy?

How many of these bear your foot print either directly or indirectly Chives?

How many of these scientist have purchased and set asaide5 acres of riparian habitat ? How about you? Nothing like walking the talk.
How many of these scientist do not use electricity or take a dump in a toilet that uses water? More walking the talk.

Me personally. I have over 5 acres set aside on a class III stream. Completely restored the riparian habitat with my own two hands. I would like to see all development on any river system removed regardless of impact on society. I would like to meet a few scientist 's that walk thier talk and not expect others to do what they themselves do not do.

again with the "if you drive a car you have no right to complain about environmental abuse"

I have not bought land (cant afford it).
You support the war, have you enlisted yet?

Its the same argument and its equally ridiculous from both sides.

I dont have to do a damned thing positive for the environment to be upset about someone doing something that will harm it.

what have you done to walk the talk? put a yellow ribbon on your pickup truck?

I have not bought land (cant afford it).

Sure you can it's just not a priority but *****ing about what others do is.


You support the war, have you enlisted yet?

It is not the same argument because there is no draft. The people fighting the war chose to be in that profession. Lefties forget this when they rehash vietnam era arguements.

You voted to send a fireman out or a police man out to risk their life. Are you a cop or a fireman?

I dont have to do a damned thing positive for the environment to be upset about someone doing something that will harm it.

No you do not but your opinion does not carry much weight with those that have done something.

Until you do something to mitigate your share of the responsibility you are just *****ing .

Wrong. It IS the same argument and the draft has nothing to do with anything.

He's got you by the short ones.

:p

"I have not bought land (cant afford it).

Sure you can it's just not a priority but *****ing about what others do is."

-You know all about me? Know what i can afford? You dont know jack about me, what i can afford, or what I do or have done. You can sit there and grandly proclaim how great the war is whle others die, yet i cannot question environmental abuse because i have not purchased land? you are an idiot.

:D At times? Man, I gotta keep my eyes open.

Rory is just pissed that dudes with pony tails are smarter than him. He thinks things like physics and chemistry and biology are enemies of his. He'll tell you about it after he drives home, turns on his electric lights, takes his blood pressure medicine, and eats his genetically engineered food for dinner.

Chives,
You know all about me? Know what i can afford? You dont know jack about me, what i can afford.

If it that important to you you would find a way. Maybe walk to work instead of drive, Not drink beer, soda, lattes etc. Live in a small studio apartment with 10 members of your extended family. So where does it really rank in your life? Be truthful? Actions always betray liberals talk.

der duh...

enlist Rambo and then you may lecture me all you want about my actions betraying my talk.

That is a sophist dodge at best. It has never been a requirement to have an opinion in this country. Using your logic you would have to volunteer because your freedom today is based on people fighting in the past. Your right to your opinion was purchased with someones blood. Again the actions betray the mouth. Would it not be easier to just confess that you are not willing to walk the talk Re: saving the fish?

"That is a sophist dodge at best. It has never been a requirement to have an opinion in this country."

exactly my point! are you really so dense that you cannot see it is the exact same argument?

I dont not have to own land to be concerned about environmental issues, anymore than you have to enlist to support the war.

I dont want to insult you so Im gonna just go away now because if you cannot grasp that or refuse to ...aint no point talkin to you.

Chives,

Look back a few post doorknob I agreed with you long ago. I however also said people that do walk the talk do not think that much of the mouth runners. Now if I was biaotching about the war and and a serviceman took umbrage to it I would have to respect his opinion more. But I have more respect and class than to ***** or cheerlead to them. I do not cheerlead this war and 100% would have liked to avoid it. I just do not see how that was realistically possible.

haha.....yeah sure you agreed with me, whatever you say.