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#282818 - 10/26/05 08:07 AM yeah, we're not being gouged
stlhead Offline
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Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 3242
http://today.reuters.com/news/newsArticl...LLIPS-EARNS.xml

SEATTLE - After a painful summer at the gas pumps for so many Americans, we're now getting a look at how much profit the oil companies raked in. Extra cash is being measured in not just millions but billions of dollars, and that's even getting the attention of a Republican-controlled Congress.
It was a very good summer for the oil giants, which are just now starting to announce record profits for July, August and September. With all of that money being made, even Republicans are turning up the heat for changes in the oil industry.
The political anxiety over high gasoline prices is reaching a new level in Congress. It's become so tense, House Republican leaders are taking aim at the oil industry, traditionally a GOP ally.
“These are extraordinary times that call for tough measures,” said Dennis Hastert, House Speaker. “We expect oil companies to do their part to help ease the pain American families are feeling with high energy prices."
Lawmakers are pressing the industry to explain what it's doing to boost fuel supplies and lower costs and questions about why a new refinery has not been built in the United States in the past 30 years.
There's a whole lot of money being raked in by the oil companies these days. In the past three months, the top five oil giants made anywhere from $20-$28 billion in profit. BP alone reports an extra $2 billion more than the same period last year. Even the deadly gulf coast hurricanes have been a boon.
Analysts say idled production drove prices higher and those higher prices more than made up for lost production from the storms.
Democrats called for more drastic measures, such as temporarily suspending the federal gas tax or imposing a tax on windfall profits that the oil companies are seeing.
Other oil companies, such as Exxon-Mobil, Chevron and Conoco-Phillips, will announce their record profits during the days ahead.

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#282819 - 10/26/05 08:48 AM Re: yeah, we're not being gouged
Theking Offline
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Registered: 10/10/03
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If you understood how the comodities markets worked you would see that speculation drove the costs up. You do not have to do business with them.
I bet you buy bottled water talk about getting gouged.
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#282820 - 10/26/05 09:00 AM Re: yeah, we're not being gouged
AuntyM Offline
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Registered: 03/06/01
Posts: 10120
Loc: Harstine Island
Quote:
If you understood how the comodities markets worked you would see that speculation drove the costs up. You do not have to do business with them.
That part is true, however, if YOU understood how the oil companies work, you'd realize that keeping tight control on supply allows the commodity market to drive prices far higher than it would be if supplies were greater.

Oil companies refuse to increase refining capacity, so they can maintain the status quo of huge profits, driven by their own artificially created "shortages" usually by region, while the commodities market benefits by not having to worry about supply increases that would cause them big losses.
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#282821 - 10/26/05 09:17 AM Re: yeah, we're not being gouged
Theking Offline
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Registered: 10/10/03
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Very true. It is a free and unregulated market on the crude end and somewhat regulatated on the price at the pump end. Congress is only looking at it beacuse the mid term elections. They will find nothing wrong as it has been investigated to death. Quit using so much stinking oil and the issue goes away. It's up to you not them.
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Liberalism is a mental illness!

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#282822 - 10/26/05 09:22 AM Re: yeah, we're not being gouged
B-RUN STEELY Offline
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Registered: 02/08/00
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Can anyone think of a single time when an oil company posted a "loss". They have the single highest profit margin of any commodity on the face of the earth ( with the exception of illeagle drugs) Enron created a energy crisis, made billions of dollars, and wound up getting busted. Is the oil industery so different. I don't know the answer, but the fact that record almost insane profits by the big players during a time of supposed crisis seems like a dead give away of corruption on many levels.
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#282823 - 10/26/05 09:25 AM Re: yeah, we're not being gouged
Theking Offline
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Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 4908
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B-Run. Not true if you look a % of profit for each quatitiy sold. Beer is much higher and MS Windows blows the door off of just about everything. The profit dollars are high because of the volume but the % of profit is around 10% which is in line with most industries.
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Liberalism is a mental illness!

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#282824 - 10/26/05 09:41 AM Re: yeah, we're not being gouged
B-RUN STEELY Offline
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Actually, beer and MS Windows are not commodities. When compaired to actual commodities, oil is king. Example, if wheat growers got 10% on the grain they ship all over the world there would be so many Billionairs in farm country that it would blow our minds. A loaf of bread would cost 5 bucks, and so on.

Your right about the fact that we don't have to buy it.
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#282825 - 10/26/05 09:47 AM Re: yeah, we're not being gouged
AuntyM Offline
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Registered: 03/06/01
Posts: 10120
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Quote:
It's up to you not them.
AuntyM, AKA the choir. ;\)

I try to buy as little as possible, and yes, we STILL smirk at SUV's when we fill up the little insect looking vehicle. It's like SUV owners WANT to give their money away or something?
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2 fish limits and kill all natives who get in the way. Hatchery fish rule!

The "NEW" northwest sportfishers creed?

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#282826 - 10/26/05 09:49 AM Re: yeah, we're not being gouged
Theking Offline
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Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 4908
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What about precious metals? The return on Gold this year has been higher that 10% I think? It does not matter because it is an unregulated business. If the demand where higher for whaet and the supply lower the price would reflect it. Go back 70 years and it was reversed Wheat brought in more the oil. I think a loaf in adjusted dollars was near $5. Oranges last year reflected this as well.
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Liberalism is a mental illness!

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#282827 - 10/26/05 09:56 AM Re: yeah, we're not being gouged
Theking Offline
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Registered: 10/10/03
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Also some perspective on the bigger picture. If you make $9000 a year in the US and you compare your income to the rest of the world you are in the top 15% of all wage earners. If you make $30k a year there are 5.5 billion people that make less than you. Everyone of them has higher gas prices than you . So quit your biotching.
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Liberalism is a mental illness!

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#282828 - 10/26/05 10:08 AM Re: yeah, we're not being gouged
B-RUN STEELY Offline
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Registered: 02/08/00
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Gold is different. It is not really produced in any significant amount. The Gold that is being bought and sold on the commodities market already exists for the most part. Thats one of the major reasons that it is an economic indicator of sorts. The chances of a large amount of "new" gold hitting the market and lowering the price is almost zero. Wheat on the other hand, is a commodity that can fluctuate with the weather, amount of land in production, and emerging markets. Its also regulated. Example: The goverment will pay farmers to reduce the amount they grow at times, in an effort to keep the meager profit margin intact following a banner year. Wheat farmers also post losses alot of the time. Oil never has a loss. Oranges are oranges. People don't have to have them so its a self regulating commodity. Good years followed by bad years. They are also not a world wide commodity like oil or wheat.
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#282829 - 10/26/05 11:22 AM Re: yeah, we're not being gouged
lupo Offline
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Registered: 09/16/02
Posts: 1571
Loc: seattle wa
tk- if you understand the international commodities market you also understad why drilling in anwr will not help us out one bit and will only prolong our dependence on foreign oil
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#282830 - 10/26/05 12:27 PM Re: yeah, we're not being gouged
Bob Administrator Offline
Four Diaper Dad
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Registered: 03/05/99
Posts: 5181
Loc: Forks, WA & Soldotna, AK
Okay ya'll ... less have some answers for this one.

Diesel prices are averaging over 50 cents per gallon more than gas.

Yadaydayada ... I know that because diesel is similar to home heating fuel, the supply is tighter.

Please answer me why dielsel prices in Canada are still reflecting the long-term price normality of dielsel about 40-50 cents LESS per gallon?

A $1 per gallon difference when compared to the gas prices in each country ... what gives???
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#282831 - 10/26/05 12:59 PM Re: yeah, we're not being gouged
Rory Bellows Offline
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Registered: 09/11/03
Posts: 1557
Loc: Third stone from the sun
Quote:
Originally posted by AuntyM:


Oil companies refuse to increase refining capacity, so they can maintain the status quo of huge profits, driven by their own artificially created "shortages" usually by region, while the commodities market benefits by not having to worry about supply increases that would cause them big losses.
--------------------------------------------------

The reason that they (oil companies) don't build any new refining facilities in the United States is because the environmental nazis have made it virtually impossible to make it profitable enough to do so after they jump through all their legal hoops and excessive regulation--if you're looking to blame someone for the lack of refining here in the states, you need not look any further than than the tree-hugging hippies. The true goal of those pulling the strings on the far left is to hurt capitalism and make socialism seem more viable~flame away but it's true. I think there a lot of well intentioned people on the left who do want to improve the envirnment, but whether they intend to or not, many are really just usefull idiots for those pro-socialist leftests agenda and marching orders they follow.

We could all be benefitting from the cheap and safe energy produced by Nuclear plants (like France is currently because they don't have many natural resources)) if it weren't for the tree huggers here in America too.

TK is right about most so-called environmentalists being hypocrits--I laugh when RFK Jr. flys all over the world in his private jet telling the rest of us about the need to conserve energy and drive hybrid Yuga type little match-box cars. : One of the funniest things ever was after Teddy and RFK Jr. (who were both born into wealth and privildge and never had to worry about money or how they would provide for their families )had been talking endlessly about how the evil capitalism and corperations are destrotying the planet and how we need to all be more 'green'---then when they were going to put wind mills to gernerate power in Hyannis Port to make cheap non-evironementally harmfull energy they pitched a b!tch and insisted it be stopped because it would ruin the views from their mult-million dollar mansions that are heated and air conditioned year round.

Seattle city just spent countless millions building their new Municipal building so that t was 'Green'---it turns out after all that money spent to make it 'Green' and not use too many finite resources to make it operational that it actually takes a lot more energy to operate it than it did the old building.
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#282832 - 10/26/05 01:08 PM Re: yeah, we're not being gouged
SlabQuest Offline
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Registered: 08/17/01
Posts: 1559
Loc: 12th Street Yacht Basin
There is no sufficient amount of hoops that an oil company could jump through to build a new refinery. Our lawsuit-based NIMBY society has made it literally impossible. The last new refinery was built 20 years ago. I believe our population and thirst for gasoline has increased a bit since then.

Whatever you think of Bush, I think he had a good idea in converting abandoned military bases into refinerys.

I believe the lack of diesel refining capacity in the US is the reason for the inappropriate high prices compared to gas. I think more diesel refining is coming back on line soon to bring the price more in line.
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#282833 - 10/26/05 01:23 PM Re: yeah, we're not being gouged
B-RUN STEELY Offline
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Registered: 02/08/00
Posts: 3196
Loc: IDAHO
Quote:
Originally posted by SlabQuest:


Whatever you think of Bush, I think he had a good idea in converting abandoned military bases into refinerys.
I have never heard that idea from Bush or anyone else but its a damn good idea. If G.W did indeed come up with that one, I go on record here and now as having agreed with him at least once.
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#282834 - 10/26/05 01:31 PM Re: yeah, we're not being gouged
AuntyM Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/06/01
Posts: 10120
Loc: Harstine Island
Quote:
The reason that they (oil companies) don't build any new refining facilities in the United States is because the environmental nazis have made it virtually impossible to make it profitable enough to do so after they jump through all their legal hoops and excessive regulation--if you're looking to blame someone for the lack of refining here in the states, you need not look any further than than the tree-hugging hippies.
Lemme see here. Do they need to make a profit in trillions before they'll "invest" some to increase capacity? That's a crock Rory.

How about, they bring the refineries back online that they shut down to artificially create a tight market in the first place?

Bob, as long as most pickups burning the diesel cost twice what a good car does, we will be gouged and they won't lose any sleep, since they think we can afford the higher pump prices. When more people get sick of the abuse and switch back to gas pickups, the prices will probably ease.

Lucky for us, we have 2 cars and parked our F350. Our insurance only covers us to drive it on weekends now. Might as well not pay full insurance on a parked vehicle.
_________________________
2 fish limits and kill all natives who get in the way. Hatchery fish rule!

The "NEW" northwest sportfishers creed?

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#282835 - 10/26/05 01:47 PM Re: yeah, we're not being gouged
Kanektok Kid Offline
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Registered: 10/12/03
Posts: 3515
Loc: undisclosed location
I've posted this once before, and perhaps this has something to do with oil prices.
Anyone who actually reads ther internal memos, might see that some very large oil companies have no interest in building anymore refineries.
I also posted a few months ago, that no oil companies ahve even PLANNED to build new refineries, anywhere.
Two months later, I have still not seen any evidence of any plan, on any level to build any refineries, anywhere in the U.S.

Is anyone has any,please post it.

The Foundation for Taxpayer and Consumer Rights (FTCR) today exposed internal oil company memos that show how the industry intentionally reduced domestic refining capacity to drive up profits. The exposure comes in the wake of Hurricane Katrina as the oil industry blames environmental regulation for limiting number of U.S. refineries.............

http://www.consumerwatchdog.org/energy/p...Gasoline+Prices
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#282836 - 10/26/05 01:51 PM Re: yeah, we're not being gouged
Theking Offline
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Registered: 10/10/03
Posts: 4908
Loc: The right side of the line
Bob,

I do not think Canada has zone pricing like we do down here. The crude and refining costs could be different depending on who you are buying from. The population of Canada is less than that of California and growing less so you would see less demand pressure on a specific grade. Look how many diesel vehicles we have down here now compared to 10 years ago. I bet Canada has stayed relatively the same.
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#282837 - 10/26/05 03:08 PM Re: yeah, we're not being gouged
Dave Vedder Offline
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Registered: 10/09/02
Posts: 3258
Loc: West Duvall
I'm just back from Costa Rica. Gas prices there recently shot up dramatically to about 3.50 per gallon. The guide said they have extra refining capacity and the supply from near by Venezuala is abundant. He thought the price went up just simply becasue the producers have the power to charge more.

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