What is your opinion, and why?

Remember that rifles such as the Kentucky, Sharps, K98 Mauser, 1903 Springfield (Mauser copy), SKS, AK variants,M1, M-16/AR-15, AR-10, FN-FAL and many others started their life as military firearms.

(Rather than hijack another thread, I thought that I'd start my own.)

my dad and i both use enfield 303's. mine is sporteried but his is still just like they were made.

I know of many people who use the 7.62x39mm round for deer, bobcats varmints etc. And .223 is one of the most popular varmint rounds there is.

Dont forget that the .30-06 was developed as a military round and it's Soviet counterpart, the 7.62x54R, is used just as widely for hunting in Siberia as the 'Aught Six' is used in the U.S., often in WWII era Mosin-Nagant 91/30's or M38's which are one of the most accurate rifles ever made (See: Stalingrad & Vasili Zaitsev). The problem most people have with military arms is thier excessive weight, and that's why most are 'sporterized' (Known as Bubba-ized in the gun collecting community) by shortening the barrel, replacing the wood for plastic, and tapping scope-mount holes in the receiver. This completely destroys the gun's value, but if you dont give a rat's ass and just want to have something to kill Bambi with, go ahead.

In my honest opinion, an AK-47 fitted with a 4x scope, a longer stock, and with the legal capacity magazine, would make a kick-ass brush gun for anything deer-sized and smaller. Plus, if you dropped it off a cliff, the cost of replacement would be less than the cost of repair on something like a Weatherby or Beretta.

Definitley agree with the weight issue Irie. I realy dont think the rifle is the issue so much as the projectile. I think military ammo is good for getting coyote pelts or dusting rodents but not for hunting deer.

I took my first deer with a 1903 Springfield, second with an M1 Garand (that is a heavy rifle), somewhere between 3 and 10 I took deer with my SKS, an M1A in 7.62x51, and my Enfield No. 2 also in 7.62x51 (.308).

I'm having an upper built for my AR-15 in .458 SOCOM. Short squatty little round with ballistics a lot like the .45-70, with the abilitly to push a 300g bullet out at 1900-2100 FPS.

Here's what they look like.



As soon as I get some brass and other components I'll load a few and show what they look like compared to a .223 Rem.

I also would like an upper in the new 6.8SPC of 6.5 Grendel, and a .25 WSSM to go along with my match grade .223 flat-top and my 5.56x45 HBAR A2 uppers.

Remember how the T/C Encore revolutionized the multi caliber handgun? Well, the AR-15's modular design allows this, but in a semi auto platform. There are also lots of options in relation to stock, magazines, handguards, and such, but instead of having to go to just one or two companies, there are literally hundreds of companies who cater to the AR market.

I took my first 5 deer with an old 1903 30-06 that had been sporterized. I still kick myself for getting rid of it. I think they are very suitable ( and fun to shoot).

Zumbo had no clue how big the following was for military sporting arms when he wrote his blog singling out a specific type of rifle based on how it looked, not how it operated. He himself admitted that he was living in a vacuum, not knowing that there was a big following for fans of the AR and AK platforms who hunted with them.

The guy was a writer, a spokesman for the gun industry, and a hunter, yet he called for a ban on the use of certain guns just because of how they look. What a boob.

In case somebody wants to refute that fact that he "was" a spokesman for the firearms industry, he worked for Remington on a contract basis, Remington is a firearms manufacturer, and their largest selling centerfire ammunition, by caliber, is the .223 Remington. This cartidge is the "downloaded" version of the 5.56mmx45mm miltary cartridge that is used in the M16, M4, CAR15, and SAW that our folks in the armed forces are using overseas.

Here is what he wrote.

As I write this, I'm hunting coyotes in southeastern Wyoming with Eddie Stevenson, PR Manager for Remington Arms, Greg Dennison, who is senior research engineer for Remington, and several writers. We're testing Remington's brand new .17 cal Spitfire bullet on coyotes.

I must be living in a vacuum. The guides on our hunt tell me that the use of AR and AK rifles have a rapidly growing following among hunters, especially prairie dog hunters. I had no clue. Only once in my life have I ever seen anyone using one of these firearms.

I call them "assault" rifles, which may upset some people. Excuse me, maybe I'm a traditionalist, but I see no place for these weapons among our hunting fraternity. I'll go so far as to call them "terrorist" rifles. They tell me that some companies are producing assault rifles that are "tackdrivers."

Sorry, folks, in my humble opinion, these things have no place in hunting. We don't need to be lumped into the group of people who terrorize the world with them, which is an obvious concern. I've always been comfortable with the statement that hunters don't use assault rifles. We've always been proud of our "sporting firearms."

This really has me concerned. As hunters, we don't need the image of walking around the woods carrying one of these weapons. To most of the public, an assault rifle is a terrifying thing. Let's divorce ourselves from them. I say game departments should ban them from the praries and woods.

After about 7500 replies to this and his apology, this is what his former employer wrote.

Madison, North Carolina – As a result of comments made by Mr. Jim Zumbo in recent postings on his blog site, Remington Arms Company, Inc., has severed all sponsorship ties with Mr. Zumbo effective immediately. While Mr. Zumbo is entitled to his opinions and has the constitutional right to freely express those opinions, these comments are solely his, and do not reflect the views of Remington.

“Remington has spent tens of millions of dollars defending our Second Amendment rights to privately own and possess firearms and we will continue to vigorously fight to protect these rights,” commented Tommy Millner, Remington’s CEO and President. “As hunters and shooters of all interest levels, we should strive to utilize this unfortunate occurrence to unite as a whole in support of our Second Amendment rights.”

We regret having to terminate our long-standing relationship with Mr. Zumbo, who is a well-respected writer and life-long hunter.

I must say that Chester Allen, a local outdoor writer for The Daily Olympian, presented a fair and balanced reponse to his article about the demise of Jim Zumbo. Many of the folks whom he quoted have the same values as myself. Chester's article can be read here: Chester's article

We need to stick together folks. A firearm is a tool, regardless of what it is made of, or how it looks. Zumbo certainly has learned that lesson, hopefully others will not have to do the same.

Can you imagine someone saying the same thing about a timeless classic like the 1903, K98, or other sporting arms with military roots? The AK and AR platforms have been around since the late 40's and early 60's, respectively, so I guess they are also classics, in their own way.

I don't know if a guy would feel like a douchbag out hunting with an AR 15 but he sure would look like one.. Compairing 30.06 to 5.56 is about as stupid as this post in general. AK'S SKS, AR'S are for for plinking nothing more. All are way under powered for big game. A guy who would be out hunting with a AK 47 would also probably have a Glock in a shoulder holster, a .380 in his boot, 3 other guns in his truck and all the dirty Harry movies on DVD. Manditory life member of the NRA.

B-RUN

You forgot the 10" bowie knife on belt, dew rag, camo face paint, and the bayonet ready to go.

I met that guy once

I voted No. Today's military weapons are much more suited for their intended purpose than hunting. I'd prefer they be used for plinking and varmits. No big game hunting with them! Bill

So, according to you "No" voters, .30 caliber cartridges (.308, .30-06, etc) are only suitable cartridges when it's used in a bolt action??

How 'bout out lawing evil terrorist bolt action "sniper rifles" and only allow muzzle loaders that existed during the 1770's? Oh wait, some of those are .50 caliber!! Terrorist weapons according to the California state legislature!

Good grief!

If you were looking at just the .223, I'd agree with you that it isn't a suitable caliber for deer. However, the .223 is great for coyotes, and the AR platform allows for over 20 different chambers from the .22 LR to calibers that match or exceed the .45-70.

A rifle is a rifle.

The .223 Remington can be very effective on deer and other similar sized game. I have killed deer and bear with my .223 Ackley by using Barnes X Bullets, and Barnes TripleShock Bullets, when using these quality projectiles and a muzzle velocity well above 3000 fps there is no reason for anyone to tell me I am under gunned...

At present I do not own any military or assault weapons, but I have in the past, and I will again I'm sure, I don't see how anyone can complain if I want to use a military type rifle to kill game with, as long as I am within the law and common sense ( using proper hunting ammo, and accurate rifle).

There is too much of this crap where people want to dictate what other people can do when there is no logical reason for it..........


IF you guys want to pass a law requiring a certain level of accuracy/ proficientcy with a rifle before attaining a hunting license, maybe I could get onboard........................

What I do know is that guys who want to engage in really long draw out coversations about " Guns, Bullets, ballistics, gun laws, gun politics, how wrong it is that they can't get tracer ammo, how stupid it is that they can't hunt with a .50 BMG or a 30 round clip " are without a doubt the most boring SOB's you will ever come across. " How's it going Dave " " Great, I just worked up a new load for my 227.3000 Brinkermeyer and I gotta tell ya, its everything the old .1500-3200 ever was which you will recall was a Pet load of Hank Hammermiller back in 1972. Its got way more frontal density and is 30 feet per second faster than the 450 whapsnapper which was of course outlawed by the stinking liberals and soccer moms who ain't smart enough to join the NRA "... Yada Yada Yada... F%CKING SPARE ME.

Its been my personell experiance that gun guys and guys who hunt or not the same type of person. A gun guy is a fat SOB who seldom goes hunting but can tell you all about it all day. A hunting guy will talk about hunting, and never even mention what type of gun he was using.. because it really don't matter.

Why do I care so much about this type of post. Easy.. As a Hunter I feel the biggest threat to my right to own fire arms is in fact the small fanatical group of Dickweed " Gun Guys" who bitch and whine about stupid gun stuff that has nothing to do with hunting, or in anyway represent the vast majority of gun owners in the USA.

Getting personal, huh? Why don't we try to keep this civil.

I'm neither fat, nor unsuccessful as a hunter. I might be an SOB. As a matter of fact in the last 5 years, all of my deer have been taken with a muzzleloader.

Lots of folks who own these types of firearms are either current or past military or law enforcement. They also aren't cheap, but they are inherintly accurate.

B-Run, the second ammendment was never about hunting. I think that you need to wake up, because if you think that giving the Brady Bunch just one type of gun that they can ban, and that they will be satisfied, you are sadly mistaken.

First they'll try to ban guns based on how they look. Then they'll ban all semi-autos and pumps. Then anything that carries multiple rounds, then single shots, and finally muzzle loaders. It is called "divide and conquer".

We need you on our side, because if you aren't, you'll allow Rosie O'Donnel and her type to have there way, all while they are being protected by armed body guards. I don't want to live in Rosie's world.

Hopefully your names not Dave ???

I can't agree with ya, and actually most people don't. I can narrow it down for you a little more. The NRA ( and I'm almost positive that you are a member ) is a " for profit " organization that plays on gun owners fears in an effort to raise money. I get the most astounding e-mails that make the most outlandish claims always accompanied by an URGENT !! request to send MONEY. I view them as damaging to the avg American sportsman as PETA.. Same thought process on the other side of the coin.

They don't speak for me, and I WISH THEY WOULD STOP saying that they do. ( Speaking of muzzle loaders.. we just spent a bunch of time and effort to get inlines taken OFF the list of weapons that can be used in a muzzle loader hunt.. had gotten way out of hand and away from the intent of the "primitive" firearms seasons and draws that they were intended for )

I worry more about guys that continually use hunting as a smoke screen to allow stupid stuff like .50 cal scoped rifles on and on and on.. than I will ever worry about Rosie.

Not an NRA member, I'm Andy, not Dave. Don't agree with their "Jack booted thug" mentality or scare tactics, either. I'm not even a fan of .50 cal rifles, (except muzzle loaders), but I don't campaign against them. If they choose to use them, good for them, I don't.

Remember, Rosie thinks it is all stupid, except for her body guards.

P.S. now that you got rid of the inlines, shouldn't you go for the compound bow?

No, but are working on the sights that can be used.

Your right, I do lump gun guys in a pile because there are a core group of them that just wear my ass out. Mr " Guns and Ammo " that gravitates to you at lunch time because he knows you hunt therfore must be willing to be subjected endless banter about useless crap.. and is creepier than the "perps" he wishes he could shoot. Its wrong and I admit it. Guys who are all wound up about why they can't use a 30 round clip out hunting are "gun show goofs".

I'm just a sportsman thats hunted all his life. I don't want these guys representing me or my sport in any way.

I agree that the "Gun Nuts" wear my ass out as well. It's the reason why I cancelled my NRA membership last fall. (That and they are a wholly owned fund-raising subsidary of the RNC.) The type I refer to are the gun show goofs--the ones who wear full camo BDU's to gunshows and hang around the book table where literary classics such as The Turner Diaries, The International Jew, and Mein Kampf can be found displayed prominently under a 3'x5' confederate flag.

However just because a group of total douchebags wants to play with Machineguns is no reason to go around banning the damned things. Lock up the douchebags, not thier toys.

A .308 is still a .308 no matter what you shoot it out of.

Ever seen a Gun show Goof with an array of Military Patches on his custom Camo that just leaves you scratching your head. He has a 1 st Cav patch and a CIB ( with jump wings) a Special forces Group patch.. a Ranger Patch.. and is all of say 35 years old ( and was not born when these patches were handed out let alone earned any of them ) On his pocket, he has a " Master Glock Target aquisition Expert " patch.. WTF is that and who gives them out ??

These guys are a blast to F-with

" So.. as a fetus you were in Nam then joined the Marines, but not until you became a jump master in the Special forces and skipped Kindergarten to go to Ranger School ??"

Your a Baaaadddd Man alright.

B-run,

I also enjoy bagging on the "Tacticool" guys. Nice to see we agree on something. There are also the guys that I refer to as FUDD gunners (as in Elmer Fudd). These guys only fire two or three rounds a year in practice, hit the paper plate set up at 25 yards, and call it good.

I usually shoot 500 to a thousand rounds a year, in different rifles and handguns, so that when the shot arises I'll be able to hit my mark. Usually I'll get out 2 or 3 days a month to practice, sometimes more.

The 30 round mags don't work so well at the bench and the woods, because of their length, so I tend to gravitate to the 10 and 20 rounders. The 10 rounders (.223/5.56) will hold only 3 rounds of my .458 SOCOM, so while it looks large, its just because the round is so large that it stacks single file instead of staggered like a .223 round. Some folks will even go so far as to take a proven reliable mag and insert a pop rivet to limit the number of rounds the mag can hold for hunting.

Heck, I can even get a 20 round mag for my Remingtion 740 auto-loader, if I want, but I'm happy with the 4 rounders I have. I did switch out the wood stock to plastic, as I hunt in the rain, and the old stock my grampa had on it was dinged, scratched, cracked and dented.

There was this one guy in Seattle named Keith Gilbert who clamed to be a Veitnam Vet. He liked to wear camo and wear the POW-MIA type pins. He was a real gun nut. He sold AK-47 parts kits online, and showed off his arms collection on the internet.

Well it turned out that he had dodged the Veitnam draft and spent the time trying to blow up Civil Rights activists--especially one named Martin Luther King Jr. He served a lengthy prison sentance for that one. After he got out of prison, he went up to Hayden Lake where he was kicked out for being too fanatical. He eventually ended up as a hired goon for a Seattle Slum Lord and was known for sicking his dogs on little black children and also trying to run them over with his car. And also changing his tenant's locks and requiring a $300 "neighborhood association membership" to get their new keys.

Online, his persona was that of a patriotic disabled War Vet, an upstanding citizen, yada yada... turns out his "Parts Kits" were actual smuggled full auto AK's from Russia that had just been disassembled to make them look legal. When he finally got busted, all this stuff came out about him. He was one of those Gun Show Bubbas that wore the camo & patches. Damn glad I never ordered those parts from him.

I think the focus of this thread was intened to be about the rifle and not the guy behind it. Range and shot placement should be the concern.

I have an SKS but I have never hunted with it because I have much better options of range and accuracy in my gun safe. I think I could hunt deer with it but I would limit my shots to muzzleloader type ranges and handload some nice cartriges for the job. I would feel like camo goon walking around with it in the woods though.

B-Run, am I supposed to think you are one of the millions of jackasses out there in a store bought tree stand coughing through your shiny new fart silencer in scent proof clothes with doe in heat scent sprayed all over your fat body, which is covered head to toe in some kind of trendy camo ?

There are a lot of a-holes in this world, some in almost every crowd, most crowds are wholey made up of them in my opinion...

I own a couple of rifles with custom barrels and stocks, own a couple handfulls of factory rifles, handload all of my own ammo, use a chronograph and some knowledge of ballistics to make drop charts for my rifles, and have target turrets which can put the crosshairs on the point of impact to way on out there if I choose, all so I can shoot water jugs and rocks...

I don't have any military crap, swords, throwing stars, numchucks, rebel flags, ear rings, tatoos, 30 round clips, or whatever else you seen me with in your dream................


I do stand 6'2", weigh 210-220 lbs, and cut timber in the Coast Range more or less 7 days a week, any fat that I can keep on is well enough placed not to bother your eyes................

P.S. I am a contractor who gets paid only for what I get done, not a clock punching bagdragger, so if you happen to know some fat lazy cutters, there really isn't much to compare.


Now, I don't expect an apology, but I think we'd all be better off if you'd stop bragging about your ignorance.

P.P.S.
I happen to agree with you that some of the new style tricked out muzzle-loaders defeat the intended purpose of the special hunting seasons, and are probably more appropriate in the general rifle seasons..........some parallels could probably drawn with archery too, but I don't feel qualified to make the determinations.

I have killed deer and elk with both rifle and archery equipment, in case I need to clarify that.

Wow... This has gone in an interesting direction.

Generalizations and stereo types can be dangerous. Let's try to keep this from getting anymore personal then it already has.

Negative on the 404, but am guilty of getting all the way down to a 28" bar ! Logging has morphed into tree farming, which is undoubtedly better for the fish than splashdam logging !

We still wack a big one every now and then, I even posted some pics to mixed reviews on here once.

Thanks for allowing me to speak my piece, I imagine we are headed in a better direction...

B-Run still uses woven linen line when he fishes and ties his flies with the pubic hair of virgins....keep on with your agenda B-Run you do all hypocrites well...

To answer the original question military rifles can and do make fine hunting rifles regardless of color or appearance...as stated before caliber and ballistics are more important than a puritans assesement of suitability...

RVW

i totaly agree with you on that.

i go to the range with a friends dad, him and his buddie have been hunting sence the 70's, between the both of them they have shot 2 deer.

they are all about guns, and target shooting. they only hunt for the experience of getting drunk and shooting off their semi auto assault weapons during hunting season. they will start convo's about hunting then quickly turn them into well my 223 will out shoot your 7mm and my 30-06 is a much better gun for hunting then your 243. if you are gonna hunt with a 243 you need to have at least this many rounds in the gun, type conversations.

with not logic on hunting at all, they look at every huntin situation as if they were at the range with their buddies just shooting off 30 rounds at a time.

i made the mistake of going hunting with them once. it was late hunt. the best time of the season imo, bunch of guys out trying their hardest to fill their tags.
we were at a clearcut and seen a spike about mid way in the clearcut. and they all decided it would be a fun game to see who could shoot it first. and it was sickening. 10 rounds through that deer out of 3 guns. all of which were semi auto 30-06's. then for the next year they bragged about how that deer dropped dead in its tracks and they were the best hunters/shots in the woods. W/E end of story its pissing me off. just an idea of some peoples ideas of what huntin is.

i really dont mind the "gun guys". and to me military rifles are ok for hunting. to a certain point. obviously a ak47 with a 20 round clip is just retarded. or some super sniper rifle is just to rediculous in some cases. i know i dont really like to see guys walking around with ak's and sniper rifles when im out busting brush or walking through some timber.

but in certain cases they are fine.

i know that its all to temping to just open up on a deer in the brushif oyu have a semi auto, or take rediculously long shots if you have a sniper rifle.

example. my uncle, he has been hunting sence the 60's shoots a browning 30-06 semi auto, 5 rounds clips. he will shoot the entire clip at a deer, even if the first shot hits. last year he used is winchester blot action 30-06 and missed a deer. he drove the hours back to the house to get his semi auto that way he wouldnt miss. NOW in that case he would not be someone that should be hunting with a semi auto military rifle. the opporunity to put more rounds in a clip would just be scary for him to have. wether legal or not.

now my dad is all about accuracy, and i have never seen him take more then 2 shots at a deer ever, either he misses and shoots again or he misses and just lets the deer take off. he shoots a enfield 303 british with 10rounds clips, sure he could put 10 rounds in it, even though not legal. but he only puts 1 round in at a time. NOw in his case i wouldnt care if he used an ak 47 or a single shot ruger no.1

it all on the person shooting the gun, and their hunting ethics.

some people are ok with semi auto's, and some people shouldnt even be allowed to touch a gun, and they are still out hunting which really bugs me.

each person get their own views and opinions on this subject, and in their own way they feel they are right.

Deerslayer,

I've changed over to a muzzle loader (ML) because of the one shot hunt. It makes you become a better hunter. There were other reasons, too. Got my first elk that way, plus 3 more, and I've taken 7 deer with them as well.

That said, I always make it a point to take some sort of game with every rifle I own. Coyotes and bobcats are my primary game of choice that I'll go after with my AR. Once I get my new .458 upper, I'll take it out for deer, and possibly elk.

I've also hunted with guys who use bolt guns that are slobs. My second reason for changing over to ML was that some guy on a landing above me decided to check out who I was, using the scope attached to his bolt action rifle. I was none too pleased.

Like you said, it is all about the person and their ethics, not the gun.

I have been a fanatical hunter all my life.
It is all about the hunt , the wildlife & the outdoors.
My gun or bow is just a tool.
I like the most precise tool I can get, but I don't really obsess over it.
I also understand that the second ammendment has absolutley nothing to do with hunting.

B-Run, am I supposed to think you are one of the millions of jackasses out there in a store bought tree stand coughing through your shiny new fart silencer in scent proof clothes with doe in heat scent sprayed all over your fat body, which is covered head to toe in some kind of trendy camo ?

Wow.. you must be able to see into my living room..

I guess you make a valid point.. Gaget guy is a hunter and he can wear my ass out ass well. Some years ago, a dumbass I have hunted with bought one of those self climbing tree stands. He got like 25 feet up in a tree and was too scared to come down.. " I can't come up and get ya so I guess we will just leave ya here and say howdy to your skeleton next year.. are you coming down or what ??"

I understand what some of you are saying, but I don't agree that any type of gun should be legal as long as you are hunting in season. Maybe that gun should be legal to own, but not to hunt with. By your rationale, why can't I drive around in the woods in a tank blowing up animals, as long as I have a tag? Because it is unsportsmanlike, and it is dangerous to the general public. I don't know enough about guns to say what is and isn't sporting, but there should be some sort of regulation on what is allowable.

However, following the logic of Indians being allowed to net rivers, they should be allowed to use whatever gun, cannon, or bomb they want for hunting. They should be able to use boobie traps, hidden pits with spikes in the bottom, and steel claw bear traps to kill game animals and leave them rotting for a while.

Fishpinner,

These firearms fire the same rounds, or projectiles, at the same speed as traditional bolt action rifles. Some have more power, .458 SOCOM, while others have less, 7.62x39. These rifles just look different. Internally, they work just the same.

So should folks be able to own cars that look fast? Or should they be outlawed because of what someone might do with them? Speed and alcohol when mixed with fast cars kills many more people each year.

Thanks for the explanation, Dogfish. I guess I don't think they should be outlawed, but I do think it would be smart of hunters to not use them. Perception is reality, and if non-hunters see dudes carrying around guns that look like machine guns, they will have a worse view of hunting in general. Some of you say you don't care what the average person thinks, but that is a short-sighted point of view. If gun control initiatives are proposed and you have alienated the public, they will become law and you won't be able to do a thing. I don't know anything on the subject other than what I've read in this thread, so please educate me if I'm missing something here.

At some point people with good sense are going to be in the minority, at that point following the wishes of the majority will not make sense...i.e. gun control. Going through life worring what some idiot might think about you is not much better than being pussy-whipped..........

So if I carry a firearm that looks like a sniper weapon I need to be wary of what they'll think? Shotguns are scary to some folks, as are pistols. Should I give those up too? Why do I need to be like everybody else? What you are suggesting is called becoming one of the SHEEPLE. (SHEEP + PEOPLE) I don't care to be one of the flock. I am trying to educate folks.

There are lots of people who don't fish, they drive sensible cars that have trouble doing 0-60 in a minute, and they eat bean curd like I eat meat. Do I need to do as they do, and dress like them too? I don't want to drive a 1972 VW van and protest for nuclear free zones. Hopefully you enjoy being different.

I blame the media for the perception of what folks call "assault rifles", and every time I see it misrepresented, I write to them to correct them. The media is not accurate by any account. They bend the facts to meet their needs so they can sell papers, airtime, and commercials.

The priveledge to hunt and the right to keep and bear arms are two entirely different subjects. If you give them one gun, they'll keep on going until they get them all. The anti gun folks tell the sheeple that they'll still be able to hunt, "So just give us those black guns. Oh, while you're at it, give the pistols and other semi autos to us too." That's what they did in Australia. That's what they'll do here too, if the sheeple bow to them.

Don't be a sheep.

Well said dogfish,

I would just like to add aliitle to that and bring an example close to the PNW. Remember when baiting and hound hunting were banned for bear and cougar. Most of the SHEEPLE probably never heard or saw any of theses hunting methods until it hit the media airwaves. It envoked a sympathy vote becaus it became graphicaly and visualy violent to them. The SHEEPLE are not biologists and should not be making these types of decisions. The anti gun crowd is doing them same thing by shinning the spot light on the most horrfic and sad gun crimes to envoke sympathy for the victim on a nation wide scale. It is real easy to sway someone when they compelled to make decisions when there emotions are set into sad react mode.

Wheter you are a hunter, a shooter, collector etc etc. We need to be firm in our beliefs and not be easily swayed like the SHEEPLE. If we could come up with some ideas, money, and organization witout coruption we stand a great chance. I think this is what the NRA was supposed to be before it became a corupt political lobbyist group.

Back to the miltary style firearm hunting. What would you guys think if the magazines capacitites were restricted to 5 or 6 rounds for hunting only. I wouldn't see the difference between a browning semi auto in .308 that could hold 5 rounds and a HK semi auto in .308 with the same capacity other than apperance.

Good point on the cougar/bear hound hunting and baiting issue. The funny thing is that nobody has ever tried to dispute the constitutionality of that initiative, as initiatives can only address a single issue. That initiative actually addressed up to 4 depending on how you look at it.

I'm all for restricting magazine capacity "FOR HUNTING ONLY". I don't see any reason why someone would need more than 4 or 5 rounds in a rifle while hunting. I still carry about 15-20 rounds on me, just in case I ever get lost and I need to signal.

Many states have magazine restrictions for hunting while Washington currently has no such restriction.

One issue is that I would exempt .22s and other rimfires. Some of them have tubular magazines that really can't be modified, 10/22's have a standard 10 round mag, and my .17 hmr and .22 mag rifles have 8 rounders. I'm not aware of anybody making 5 rounders.

Even when I'm at the range, I usually only load 10 rounds at most in my AR mags, for two 5 round groups. I shoot one group, then the other, make the rifle safe, then go down range. If I load more, then I end up having to remove the mag and remove the chambered round.

My point exactly!

Why are laws concerning what another man wants to carry in his rifle needed ?

There are more laws than can be enforced already...

Close down every meth lab. in the U.S., catch every thief and rapist, then get back to me about passing more laws which solve problems that don't even exist.....................................

Then how in the F am I supposed to make money and get laid. HA HA HA just kidd'n.

As long as proper ammo is used they are fine. Isn't it illegal to hunt with full metal jacket like many sks bullets are.....just a thought

PMC, Winchester, Wolf, and other companies make softpoint and HP rounds suitable for hunting.