The following causes much concern for me. I am against this bill and wanted to get feed back from members that have an opinion.
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http://www.senior.org/

There can be no doubt as to why the supporters of Amnesty want this pushed through so quickly; it is to avoid the drawn out publicity and public debate that would allow the majority of Americans to speak out against it.

This bill will provide, along with massive Amnesty for 12 to 20 million illegal immigrants:

A permanent “temporary” visa—called the z visa-- that can be renewed every four years for the life of the holder. The visa will allow the holder to work, attend college, or travel abroad and re-enter, it will even give them access to welfare and Social Security benefits. NOTE: A law-abiding alien with a normal nonimmigrant visa would surely desire this privileged status, but it is ONLY available to illegal immigrants. Can that be considered anything less than a reward for breaking our laws?
Weak background checks—the government will be given ONE business day to conduct the check, whether the illegal is a terrorist or criminal. The burden is put on the government to find a reason NOT to grant the visa, once that day passes, the illegal immigrant is granted a six-month probationary z visa- which as mentioned, provides much freedom and many benefits—a terrorist can accomplish a lot in six months!
Amnesty for fugitives who have been ordered deported by an immigration judge but chose to ignore those orders. More than 636,000 such fugitives are in this country now, having defied the law twice: once when they broke U.S. immigration laws and again when they ignored the orders of the immigration courts. WOW! Crime really does pay, doesn’t it?
Amnesty for Gang Members. You read that right! And what could possibly be the justification for this provision? To qualify for amnesty, all a gang member would need to do is note his gang membership and sign a "renunciation of gang affiliation."

Tuition Subsidies for Illegal Aliens: The Senate bill incorporates the Development, Relief and Education for Alien Minors Act (DREAM Act). The DREAM Act effectively repeals a 1996 federal law that prohibits any state from offering in-state tuition rates to illegal aliens unless the state also offers in-state tuition rates to all U.S. citizens. Illegal aliens would receive a taxpayer subsidy worth tens of thousands of dollars and would be treated better than U.S. citizens from out of state-- who must pay three to four times as much to attend college.
Taxpayer-Funded Lawyers for Illegal Aliens; the bill would allow millions of illegal aliens who work in agriculture to receive free legal services. Every illegal alien working in the agricultural sector would have access to an immigration attorney to argue his case through the immigration courts and federal courts of appeals—all at taxpayer expense. Think of the cost to taxpayers in just a year’s time!
It isn’t hard to see why they want to avoid public debate on this bill—these provisions are impossible to defend. They will endanger us all and cost taxpayers billions while endangering Social Security as well as other welfare programs.

http://www.senior.org/

Its to much of an issue to hash out here.. but hell no.

They have taxed our facilitys beyond belief as is. making them legal would simply make them eligible for even more benifits ( welfare comes to mind) Imagine the burden making them all legit would do to social security.. they put nothing into it, but would be able to take out of it. Medicare would be swamped with new claims.

One little fact that was in our paper a few months back.. The correctional system is a business no doubt. They have found a way to over crowd all the jails etc by simply sticking a bunch of illegles in there for months on end instead of deporting them. In short, they want new , bigger jails and prisons to handle the "over crowding". It went on to say, that the push for this is a back door for additional moneys for this system. No new jails etc means no new promotions or job advancement for the people running them. I'll look it up if I can, and you would be shocked how many illeagals there are in the system right now, that should simply be sent home.. you are paying 45 bucks a day to keep them there so they can run at 115 % of capasity and generate more money.. you are paying for this

The social security issue really gripes me.

I'm for ceasing all immigration. At what point does this country become too crowded?

I don't think so Aunty. Here is why. In my area there are tons of illeagles. Many are older than you would imagine. They also send about 1/2 of their money out of country to support extended families south of the border. That won't stop.

As is, they don't pay taxes, and the people who employee them don't pay S.S or anything else on them for that matter ( workmans comp, nothing ) So, in order for them to be legit, the person who pays them 5.00 bucks an hour, would have to pay out closer to 8 bucks an hour to bridge that gap.

I read an interesting atrickle about this very thing. In the state of California, a teen age kid CAN NOT get a job.. anyplace. Those positions are filled with illeagle aliens for the most part. There are few if any americans who can work for 5.00 an hour, but there is a large number who could work for 8.00 an hour.

In Idaho, and probably else where, the aliens live a communal life style. Typically, they have a central figure who managaes the money for a large group. This is how they afford to live here at 5.00 bucks an hour. The ones who don't do this are usually involved in some other type of activity.. typically crime of some sort. A person CAN NOT live in this country at 5.00 bucks an hour. It can't be done. An Illeagle farm laborer in Idaho gets about 800.00 dollars a month. No overtime, no benifits of any kind. However, his wife can show up at the hospital and have a baby for free, or whatever else they might need no questions asked. Its a difficult situation. One person can't live on 800.00 dollars a month. However, 6 people working for 800.00 a month pooling their money do just fine. Quite well actually.

My daughter makes 6.00 an hour working at a resturant on weekends. I made 4.25 an hour in 1982 - 25 years ago in college. She pays S.S and taxes so really makes 4.00 something an hour. It would be cool if she could make 5.00 dollars an hour under the table if you ask me. I think that extra .75 cents an hour would keep her out of my wallet a little. At the same time, my taxes are supporting 20 million people ( I feel thats a low number) who don't pay a dime, but are some of the biggest drains on our programs.

Also, they drive around without drivers licences or insurance. I have actually seen them wind up in court, be illeagle, get a fine and allowed to walk away

Again, the burden is put on the shoulder of middle class working America to finance the country's problems. Everyone knows this isn't the right thing to do, but it's the only "PC" resolution our politicians can agree to.

ENFORCE OUR GOD DANG LAWS !!!!

I'm opposed. It's another gov't. attempt to spend its way out of a problem. Only it looks like it will engender an even larger problem. If this isn't the case, I'd like to see the rationale statement for this bill.

What Congress ought to do is reform immigration so that foreign workers can legally enter the country to mow our lawns, harvest ag crops, and fill other low wage positions that apparently only they fill. I read that legal immigration takes years unless someone has a lot of money to spend on it. It ain't typical of gov't, but they oughta' get it down to something like 6 weeks or so. And every illegal immigrant should have to do it right or face prosecution. Rewarding lawbreakers borders on lunacy.

Sg

First off in wash at least ,it is illegal to hire anyone unless you have a ss number if it is valid who knows everyone I hire has to fill out a I-9 and a w-4 also I need copies of their S.S cards , D.L and their now if they are fake that is not my fault even the Border Patrol sometimes can not tell as for payroll for every employee I hire I have to pay L,I employment tax federal with- holding, medicare and S.S legal or not evryone has to pay unless you are paying under the table which would screw you out of a tax deduction for the record I have had more trouble with white people I have hire trying to work the system then with anyone else

I have good news! The Immigration Bill that would have allowed amnesty for illegal immigrants has failed!

See how they voted below.

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/ro...on=1&vote=00235

Is it just me, or does anyone else find it amazing that during the mad cow epidemic our government could track a single cow, born in Canada almost three years ago, right to the stall where she slept in the state of Washington? And--they tracked her calves to their stalls. But they are unable to locate 11 million illegal aliens wandering around our country. Maybe we should give each of them a cow.

We need to do what Arizona just did:

Yank the business licences of people and businesses repeatedly caught hiring illegals.

It would solve the problem instantly. No jobs, no illegals.

Sky guy,

That's too friggin' funny.

Something like AZ is the solution. Make the pain for hiring illegals hurt three times as much as the gain from hiring them. Also, Immigration needs to upgrade a century or so, and process temporary work permits in a few weeks instead of months or years. Then there'd be a ready supply of labor for those jobs American citizens allegedly won't do.

Don't worry Sky-Guy, just like with illegals the solution for mad cow is to stop testing for it. No testing no mad cow. Now IF you were going to close down testing centers why the one state where mad cow was found????????

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2003583249_madcow22m0.html

Sod, I'm trying to understand what you are trying to say, but it would be easier if you used some punctuation in your posts. No disrepect intended....

Sorry my typing skills suck,
My point is when you hire someone you have to fill out paper work, what I ask for is a S.S # , drivers License , and green card.
all of these could be fake , it is just too hard to tell. As for taxes I pay and also deduct S.S ,medicare and all federal income tax on everyone I hire, also I pay unemployment and workers comp.
this money goes into the system and most of the time it is not claimed by that employee legal or not in fact in the last 6 years out of 40 different seasonal employees only 2 claimed unemployment.
very few employers in the state will knowingly hire illegals but it can happen ,it has to me twice

I disagree that they only take jobs that Americans don't want. With fake ID, they can get any job they want. If one of them gets a contractors license, he can get work as an independent contractor and hire all his freinds under the table. Since there is no hold back on independent contractors (think landscapers, plumbers, framers, insulation workers, auto mechanics, etc.), the money can just disappear into their hands. Why would they, as independent contractors, pay any taxes? If they get caught they have no hard assets and if deported they can simply come back again and start over. I doubt the IRS has ever chased down one of them and held them criminally for Income tax fraud, it simply isn't cost effective for them. If a person avoid paying any taxes he or she could work for 30% to 45% less and make the same amount of money (15% social security, 5% income taxes, 15% in L and I, 8% sales tax, plus any accounting fees).
I talked to a carpet layer the other day that said he and his wife had moved down from San Deigo to work here laying carpet. Together they could make $150,000 around here if they worked hard. In San Deigo the illegals had pushed the price down to about $50,000, simply through supply and demand. The price is high enough to provide a real good living for a single man, but not enough to buy a home or provide much for a family.
Something has to change.

If your a carpet layer and you bring in 150,000 a year then you just described the problem. Ain't no carpet layer on the earth worth that kind of bank. Blame yourself for that one. Gimmi the 50,000 dollar a year guy and he is still over paid.

A good engineer right out of school with a masters makes 55-60k a year, and when he is old and sage he gets over 100,000 K

I call B.S on the carpet layer deal... lots of story telling getting thrown around in this thread

$150,000 a year to lay carpet??

Yeah...sure...

Well guys, first of all, if you noticed, I said he worked with his wife, that makes 2 people earning $75,000 each, actually, though he said he figured 90 for him and 60 for his wife. If you took out there taxes, overhead, L & I and such that would be paid if they were employed they would be making closer to $60,000 each, with no retirement or health care (which costs me $1500 a month) And you are right, it probably is still too much, but there are guys out there who hustle and make it. If you don't believe manual labor guys can make it, talk to the line men at Seattle light. Call up a plumber and ask him to give you an hourly bid.
I have watched a crew of 2 frame a house in 10 days. At $3.50 a foot and a 2000 sq ft house thats $7,000.00 . If they don't work weekends thats $87,000 a year. Take off a couple of weeks and they are still making $70 + if they split it evenly. And for engineers only making $50,000 grand, so what. I can pick up my phone and call several people who made over a million last year in the construction business, none of who has more than a high school degree. In fact, only one guy I know with a degree made over a $1o0,000 last year. He was an engineer and he quit his job because he felt that he could make more doing other things. I know that there are lots of people with degrees that make lots of money, but in my circle the exact opposite is true. And if you still don't believe any of this, ask Stam what his hourly rate is.

Funny you would mention that. Someone just the other day was saying that there is a group of people that load up a van full of illegles and they take them up in the woods to pick Huckle berrys. I guess they can pick a hill side clean in a couple of days.

Another thing that we see on the news all the time. When ever they bust a big old patch of weed growing up in the hills, they always find it being tended by Illegals. The thought being if they get caught, the very worst that could happen to them is they get deported.

AuntyM,
Your example of the brush pickers goes much farther than you implicated. A few years back, it was all legal south Asian Immigrants doing it. Most of these people spoke little english and were not educated enough to find better jobs. I am sure that many of them moved on, but I am also sure that there would be others to take their place. The illegals will push the price down and make it harder for the lowest wage earners in our society to work. Eventually many of these brush pickers will move on to jobs like drywall, roofing, framing, auto repair, and such and a new group of illegals will take their place. Unless we stop it, the will be no jobs left for uneducated but hard working americans that pay a low but livable wage. With out transitional type jobs to prove they are willing to work, many Americans will find it hard to move into the work force. People like divorced mothers coming back into the work force, recovering alcoholics, ex-cons, new legal immigrants, high school drop outs getting their act together, and people with lower IQ's, will not be able to find work . In the end, we may make it easier for them to give up.