Who'd a thunk it... The "last real native" is also a poacher.

It said in the paper the Makah's were sending a committee to DC to prove they didn't sanction the event.

Its mind boggling what these native americans come up with to justify this crap. For centuries they also took slaves from the La Push tribe, is that in there blood too.....
All the supporters of this need to come out of the clouds and get back in the world, its not the same today as it was 100 years ago. Things change, get over it.

What!???

Aunty, the only ones defending tribal culture as Tribal culture are the Natives. No thinking defender of cultural diversity doesn't support cultures in general.

The non Native-bashers on this thread are defending Native RIGHTS!, as defined and protected and upheld by this Nation's Laws that the closet, and not so hidden, racists and the seemingly schizophrenic and hopelessly confused liberals (oh, do I support Indians this time or the the pretty whales?) profess to uphold. Our courts have ruled in favor of the Tribes every time and will continue to do so as long as the rule of law and legal precedent guide them.

I don't expect any more from the uneducated, non thinking crowd that produce racist, knee jerk, let me on the bandwagon drivel, but how can educated people actually equate cultural intolerance with the genocide of the Native peoples? It's no coincidence that Natives are the only peoples in our good old US of A with treaties. Thinking Americans demanded a fairer way of dealing with them BECAUSE of the atrocities committed by our government.

This majority of this thread is not about law or changing cultural expectations. It is about ignorance and racism thinly veiled by the excuse that these 5 did not follow the law, and some seemed to really be confused. Go fishing!

Let's continue to be somewhat careful how this one goes.

Just food for thought.

don't forget, if it wasn't for those damn hippy environmentalist wackos... the grey whale would still be endangered... and we wouldn't even be talking about the makah whaling.



til it was legal



not all environmentalists are animal rights activists.



that's your argument, if you disagree shut up? nice



yes, it was illegal.



how have they screwed up, by wanting the laws enforced. the whaling issue is being debated in court right now. how does you buddy's actions help the cause of makah whaling? his need to kill a whale probably did more damage to the makah whaling cause than anything the "environmentalists" could have done



if we stand on your side, will there be any fish left? if this illegal action involving whale hunting is acceptable, how could we believe that the tribe would follow fishing regulations set forth by the treaties.



i will leave the makah alone... no longer will one cent of mine be spent on the reservation. if they choose to kill whales and thumb their noses at wdfw, nmfs, and the world i will choose to spend my money elsewhere.

just wondering Seaox ya ever know your good friend Mr. Johnson to partake of any ardent spirits. Be a shame if something like that affected his judgement. Does the CG report of this fall under puplic domain. Seems that last store befor the res thats forsale sells a lot of beer and wine for the non tribal population in the area.

It's just a bad deal all the way around. Sad, really. The animal was killed without need and not due to the individual's intent, but rather because of conflict with ancient traditions and visions butting up against more accepted, albeit not necessarily correct, beliefs. The dead whale was wasted from use not by the killers, but from prejudice.

I don't know the answer, but I am sure that Whitey hasn't got a freakin' clue. Leave it to the Tribe to settle and shut up, I say.

Wayne Johnson might be a nice guy, but he suffers from pitifully poor judgement. The treaty right of the Makah to take whales is not in any legal dispute and is readily acknowledged by the federal government. Conservation of the gray whales and details of hunting them are in court in a dispute that will be resolved. More likely than not it will be resolved in favor of the Makah Tribe, since the legal facts are on their side. Some of the details about hunting should be resolved. Mr. Johnson's behavior may have added additional delay to that resolution instead of speeding things up. In summary, his action was that of a dimwit.

Salmo,
The fact is, there is no reason for this to be taking so long in the courts. If we look at any precedent involving Boldt, we know what the end result is. I believe it has been asserted that the tribes are allowed to take from threatened runs under certain circumstances. The Fed's need to step up and let this take place. The injunction to stop whaling until the courts have this worked out is really a farce. The courts could just as easily allowed the Makah's to keep whaling until the courts rule otherwise. Even if the whales are considered threatened, the take they are suggesting would not be enough to further endanger the whales. If worried why not limit them to one whale a year. Why not put sanctions on the Japanese for violations of the treaty. This whole case is about precedent involving other countries and social concerns. If I was part of the Makah tribe, I very well might let the courts know that we were pulling out of any further talks and authorizing a hunt. I am confident that if the Makah's never agreed to talk and would have just started hunting the government would have stepped aside. By trying to work with the government for political and social reasons, they are being treated unfairly. Now that they agreed to get permission they are stuck waiting endlessly for no reason. I wonder if the tribe ever would get their permits without someone like Mr. Johnson doing what he did and driving this into the public eye. If I was the tribe, I would consider letting Mr. Johnson be tried be federal government, and take the approach that while he did not have permission, there was no actual tribal ordinance prohibitting what he did, only a social heirarchy. That way the tribe could let this be worked out in two different courts at the seme time. I would guess that the federal government would balk at trying to try Mr. Johnson or would find they have no grounds to stop him, at which point the permits would become a moot point, especially since the tribe has already gotten permission from the international whaling commission.

When it comes to rich enviromentalists, that is something that has to be taken in context what is happening. Most people don't have lawyers on staff, a huge boat like the rainbow warrior, time to sit around for months with nothing to do but stop a hunt like this, the money to offer them a million a whale and such. When we visited right after the hunt, some idiot enviromentalist decided to block the road out of town with his very expensive RV. I say idiot because he blocked everyone from leaving, not coming and did so on reservation rather than off. I was surprised when the tribal police simply arrested them and escorted them off the tribal land and did not impound his RV, something I am sure anyone with a brain would have been worried about. So in the tribe's eyes, they only see rich people who have no worry about work and millions to spend to stop them from doing what they feel they have a right to do.

Todd,
Do you have a legal opinion?

In basic concept, is the Chehalis fish-in different than Wayne Johnson and crew's whale hunt?

Doc wants to fish for hatchery coho. Did Wane cull out a hatchery whale?

You mean besides being legal?

I don't believe the intent of the fishin is to harvest fish that the season isn't open--- The intent of Johnson was to kill a whale.

Oh Aunty.......


I think you have too many discussions going on, and you can't keep up. If you read my posts, you would see that I long ago conceded the fact that these whalers broke the law (Makah Law), and the Tribe should decide how to prosecute them.

I never called you racist, I said the majority of "bandwagon ,Native Bashers", who have complained about everything from "special treatment" and conditions on the "rez" to they should only be able to use canoes and spears are really only anti-Native and their arguments are indeed racially motivated intentional or not (unfortunately most of this thread has fallen into this camp).

You my curious friend, I am inclined to put into the hopelessly confused schizophrenic liberal whose position on Native sovereignty and which laws you choose to support based on the latest article you read camp.


Isn't there any fishing going on down there by that Island enclave? I really think you need some time on the water away from the computer and your "reading."

Me too, I am GONE FISHING

I don't think there's anything new to be said. Until this works it way thru where ever it ends up, this is a dead subject and the horse is beaten.

DONE