Are there any exceptions to the "eye" theory looking downwards on a live fish anyone?

Ignorant is the word that came to mind when I read this comment. Your one of the last people that should be bashing guides (for any reason), considering who you fish with all the time. I'm not condoning how that fish was handled BTW...Later


Jake

Yes, there are.

not sure I was " bashing" by any means but I guess... My bad Gilly but looks like a nate from that pic. I have to be honest here I didn,t even know Gilly was A guide. But I know the picture I posted is, guide or not doesn't make it right.

Gilly knows how to handle his fish FYI

Suprise, suprise, another ignorant comment. You think just because it's a nate it was mishandled? Because it was out of the water? You have no idea where that fish was caught, possible BC where its legal to remove fish from the water for a picture. I can assure you Matt knows how to properly handle fish, your barkin up the wrong tree ...Later


Jake

It looks to me like the guide has it under control,looks like he is poised to take fish and release him. i understand they should not have taken him out of the water but i think we all have done things we look back on and say wtf was i thinking. who are we to judge everyone's actions. i also want to add i have a 8 year old boy who would bonk everything if i let him. seen many of tears on his face after letting some of his prize fish go..give him a break.

Maybe they ate it.....no come to think of it that would be beyond the realm of believability.

Do we even know what system/state/country/hemisphere it came from?

Surprise surprise? apologizing and stating that it looked like a nate. What was ignorant about that?
??

While probably not the best way to do it ... I don't see the need for a witch hunt here either. Personally, I wouldn't one one over the boat ... especially a bigger fish that is hard to hold onto as they often can slide out of the tail grasp fairly easily ... but at least it's not by the gills or vertical either.

As for the youngster ... give him a break, do we know if the guide suggested to the young fella after the picture to handle as little as possible? Maybe, maybe not, doesn't really matter though. That smile says it all, and he likely knows no different.

I could go on ... but won't, but all of suddent here seems to be this move to go find pics on the web to bash. In a few cases of extreme behavior, I'm for slapping a wrist, but there's lots more to worry about out there as well

I asked the same question in the first of the post.

dude u amaze me...zing.

The down-rolled eye we see in so many pictures is evidence that a fish is still neurologically intact. It happens because the brain is still trying to maintain the eye's natural position in space... by that I mean the top stays on top and the bottom stays on the bottom. All vertebrate eyes do this, including yours.

If you are having a conversation with a friend, and tilt your head back into a chin-up position, your eyes will naturally roll downward to maintain their position in space (ie looking at your friend). If you tilt your head to the left (like in Lund's pic in the new STS article) your eyes automatically tilt to the right in an attempt to keep the 12:00 meridian of the eye at 12:00 in space.

The same thing happens to a fish when you pose it for a pic. If the fish is maintained in a natural position in space( held perfectly horizontal, back up, belly down) then the eye will be looking straight out to the side, just like on a free-swimming fish. That straight-out stare does NOT mean it's dead. The best clue you have in this instance is that the pupil will still be very large and shaped like a big fat watermelon seed.

If however you tilt that fish off axis ( e.g. rolling the belly slightly toward the camera to accentuate the chrome snowbelly effect for the final pic) then the eye closest to the camera will appear to roll downward. It is simply trying to maintain its position in space. The opposite eye will actually be rolled upward by an identical amount. A little off-axis tilt, a bit of down-rolled eye... the greater the off-axis tilt, the more the eye rolls down.

If you take your pic with the fish laying completely on its side in the shallows, the down-rolled eye is VERY exaggerated. That's because the body is angled 90 degrees off its normal anatomical orientation. The eye will try to roll downward 90 degrees to compensate for the unnatural body position, appearing partially buried into the socket. If you could view the eye closest to the gravel, you would see that it is rolled upward in an equally exaggerated fashion. Again, the brain is just trying to keep the eyes oriented in space.


Make sense?

Yeah that ... what FnP said.

Makes total sense! Thanks, I learned something new today...woo hoo

I have alot better feeling about that Buck being fine!!!

Here are some examples of what I am talking about. These are ALL live fish:

Held in normal orientation... eye looks straight




Held with belly tilted slightly to the camera... eye rolls down slightly



Fish laying on its side in the shallows.... VERY exaggerated down-rolled eye

Big Chump, your name says it all. As far as my Avatar, the pic aint mine it came about with the Nordic 1, thread.

Next.

Matt

Cool shots....better then the jug avatars.

wow. I guess you did it all for the nookie.

FnP,

Thanks for your time and the education. That rocks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ed