Predictions for returns on the August kings on the Skok is poor. There has been a request for input on how to best structure the recreational season to minimize impacts.

One of the issues is related to catch and release mortality. The end of August sees a much higher impact related to catch and release, than does early August. With an estimate of 1 out of 4 fish released dying, and the numbers of fish kept closing in on 1 out of 4 by the end of August (because they are darkening up), by the end of the season for each fish kept the impact is actually 2 dead fish. Early in the season most people are keeping their first legally (no need to comment on that) caught fish.

My prejudice is for an early season, with days being chopped off at the end of August. The other options are to start the season later, or to make it open only certain days of the week.

If my numbers are off would someone from WDFW please correct me by PM and I'll fix it. I'll add in whatever predicted returns, and mortality numbers I get.

If the managers involved in the North of Falcon process aren't reading this, I'll talk with one of them by phone. However, chances are your input will be read right here on the board.

Please keep this discussion on how you'd like to use a limited number of days on the Skok. Don't pollute the thread with commercial fishing/tribal fishing/global warming/skok snagging/hemorrhoidal itching arguments. The manager I've talked with on the phone already gets a migraine dealing with a contentious process. I'd like to give him a straight answer to a straight question. Here it is one more time:

If the recreational chinook season on the Skok needs to be limited, would you rather see it start late, end early, or restricted to certain days of the week?

Thank you.

And although unrelated, I just had a pleasant memory of seeing strangers, and friends spend an afternoon picking up trash on that river. AuntyM, her spouse, and the two fella's who's board names I can't remember, I've got a free seat for you in my boat. AuntyM, do you remember those gents names?


Vince

Isn't going to make a difference to me either way cause I'll be gone all summer buuuuuut, I would open the fishery on August 1 like normal but end it early. If they were to end it early, would it be sometime later in August or would it end sometime in September? There isn't really much going on in the way of fresh fish in the second half of September anyways. The vast majority of fish are dark and the silvers have barely begun to trickle in. If they really wanted to take the pressure off they'd do a week day only fishery, most of the jackoffs show up on the weekend. Maybe a shorter, week day only fishery?...Later


Jake

Most of the jackoffs show up on the weekend, but then so do a lot of regular working people. If it ended early it would probably be the 20th, from what I remember of my conversation with the fisheries guy.

Seems to me that the fish are there in good numbers on the 1st of Aug, so maybe move up the opening date by 10 days, and cut 10 days off at the end of the month. That would give us about 30 days.......................or are the numbers of returning fish going to be to small????????????????? I think that would be a reduction of days for our season.

20th of August or September? Yeah well, most of the regular working guys that show up on the weekend are the jackoffs putting the most pressure on the fish. And isn't this about taking the pressure off the fish?...Later


Jake

My immediate thought was to limit the season to specific days of the week. My choice would be Sunday thru Tuesday. Why those specific days? 1) Because most people would be working or preparing for the week, which could/would limit the impact on the Skok. 2) Because I work Wednesday thru Saturday. haha

Not to mention having legislature crack down on netting and set limits on the tribes. Otherwise, entire river systems and species will be gone.

Les

i'm not a huge expert on that run, maybe closing it to king retention is the answer.

what i would like to see on average return years is a "1 king OR 2 coho" limit until the 4 fish bag limit starts october first. there are a ton of smallish(2-5lb) hatchery coho in that river in the last 2 weeks of september, and while i don't mind CNR on them, it'd be nice to be able to bring 2 home to make the trip worthwhile. you tag and bag a king, you're done fishing, but if you get a coho you have the opportunity to CNR the rest of the day, or catch another coho and go home.

i wonder what kind of effect spilling water from cushman will have on the fish. i can't imagine it being anything but positive, giving them more cover from the harelip snagger types. 240CFS + whatever comes out of the south fork should bring the lower river up a substantial amount in the late summer.

I think that a 4 day per week season would be good, that way there are days the fish can rest and move up and also spread out the season over the summer. I don't fish there much any more but this seems like a reasonable way to go, it works in Alaska on the popular rivers like the Anchor and Ninilchick.

I could see the whole month of August opened. Most of the fish, especially early on in the month, are usually bright.

September usually consists of dark fish... with the latter portion of the month being the smallish coho just starting to trickle in. Close the river during the month of September.

October first re-open the river to a 2 fish limit. There is no need for there to be a 4 fish limit... it draws additional, unnecessary attention to the river as well as a much higher harvest rate. October also perfectly coincides with the typical increase in likelihood of having increased flows, usually causing fewer fish to be snagged, released, and eventually killed.

Keep the season opened till December 1 and extend the season to the upper river as well while maintaining selective gear and C&R regulations above 101. Most of the steelhead typically aren't arriving till the end of January and the shortened season in the upper river is bogus...

streamer- you fish that river you;re part of the problem...... sorry I thought it was too funny not to pass on

Haha I agree... along with "I can use spoons and still snag with the best of them."

I would say open as usual and close early. This gives the numbers needed a chance to run the river after all the fishing is done. They continue to trickle in all the way into sept. No nets at that time either though.
Selective days suck. And believe it or not Abu, many of the hairlips that like to snag snag snag are the same type that dont have a job or work for a living(those type seem to not really care about the rules). Many of us who that have a five day work week still like to fish and do the correct way.

I can't see the mortality numbers....1 in 4 die. With all the fish that are hooked and released the bottom should be littered with those kind of rates.

Open it early and just to Mason County residents. That would keep all the Seattle, Bremerton, Olympia, and the rest of the tweakers out of there.

Really, open it early and if you could limit the days to Sunday-Thursday.

Fishing by permit only, must take a simple test to obtain permit

1. How long shall thy leader be whilst fishing the skok?
-any answer longer than 3 ft = no permit
2. What color shall thy hairband be that be tied to thy hook?
-anything other than a look of disdain = no permit

Seriously though, just end the season early and give those poor fish a chance to do their thing.

Vince, I took a little time to look at the king returns over the last ten years on the Skok. and also the coho returns. A little off topic, but it shows a very marked improvment in the numbers of kings returning to the hatchery. In 1998-1999 return was 5584 kings/2793 coho. As the years progress from there the 2002-2003 return was 9394 kings/25595 coho. The 2004-2005 return was 16026 kings/ 19824 coho. The following year was 12358 kings/1726 coho.This past fall the return was 13270 kings/6370 coho.
I guess my question is why the more liberal (4 fish) limit on coho with the numbers down so drastically? It looks like the coho should also be a concern.
In answer to your question, maybe they could implement and enforce a fishery like on Rufus Woods lake. You catch a king,you MUST keep it and you are done for the day.This in addition to opening the river the 15th of July and closing it for all fishing on the 15th of August. It would remain closed on a weekly basis until escapement had been met and then reopened. They should set up a weekly meeting between the hatchery,WDFW,and the tribes to set a reopening. This would give the best chance to reach escapment and still allow the surplus to be utilized if any is possible.This might still be used in conjunction with a 4 day week for fishing.
I'm not sure how they know the return is going to be dismal, but better to plan for it and try to avert a disaster now.

My .02 as well.

I concur with Doug.

I think it would be smarter to go with a 4 day a week fishery, with an earlier opener. One of the closed days would have to be a Sunday or Saturday or you would just have an increase of pressure on the open weekdays. I am weary of a straight early closure because if we have a lack of rain or the fish come late, there is little chance we will see an in season adjustment until it is too late. I know you don't want to hear it, but the best way to limit take would be to vigorously enforce the place. Since very few fish are hooked legally, many people would become fustrated and not come back. When they can snag a fish on every fifth cast, many do just that.

"Open it early and just to Mason County residents. That would keep all the tweakers out there. "

There fixed that for you.

i think if you really want to make a dent in things, open the puyallup back up in august like it always used to be. it'd take the pressure off the skokomish, as well as the nisqually. both get hammered harder than i've ever seen since they started closing that river in august.

I think I like the # of days per week season. Maybe that would allow some fish from both early and later parts to get through.
I can understand keeping it open earlier for brighter fish as well.

If you open early or as normal, then there is a low run, how do you hit the escapemant goal? Safer to open later, after observing the first part of the run to estimate return numbers...or am I off?

i think that's a sensible idea.

i'm just not a fan of choking seasons and limits down to near nothing in the name of "opportunity." if it's not likely to make escapement, just shut it down until it does.

the wild coho population really exploded in the late 90s after being closed for many, many years. this last year was a very good run(albeit few of the fish were good biters this time around). i think the next fish in that river to see a drastic reduction in numbers soon will be the chum run. you could nearly walk across their backs 10 years ago in the skokomish, but they've been hammering on them in the canal so hard that the last 3 years really sucked.

Vince,
Thanks for being an advocate for this fishery! I've fished it off and on since 1989. Alot has changed since...So I'm going to add my .02.

I'd agree with you and several others for the early opener, and early closure. Besides if people are doing there homework there are other rivers during that time frame (during the closure) that have decent #'s of chinook in them... a couple of them were already mentioned in this thread. Not to mention the saltchuck seems to turn on then too, most likely where I'd do most of my fishing as of the last 5-6 years during the crowded time on the river!
Here's a thought,
Lower river below 106, 1 fish limit as usual, single point barbless HOOK, once your limit is retained your done.
Above 106, past hwy 101 upriver, catch and release only single point barbless HOOK. Except access along Purdy Cutoff Rd (you know the snagging hole) handicap fishing only. 1 fish limit.
I know it's just a pipe dream, but I just wanted to stir it up little!!!
Anyway with fuel prices approching $4.00 for gas and beyond that mark for diesels by summer, I'm sure we will see less people thru simple attrition. As most folks will look for water to fish closer to home (again another dream).

Good Luck, Good Fishing,
Winterun

Then it stands no chance.

An adequate amount of WDFW enforcement would go a long ways if they really want to help these fish. I mean, when some f'n knob drags a ladder out there and points out fish for his f'n knob buddies to snag, then there isn't enough enforcement present.

The tribe and WDFW has agreed on a 10% CnR mortality rate. The 25% CNR mortality stat I pulled out of my ass was correctly identified as being too large. Pulling large things out of one's rectum is not something that should be regularly practiced in public unless it's during a White House press conference.

I've also been informed that there should be enough chinook returning to have a season that lasts hopefully all of August.

If you guys want enforcement present during the fishery, write a letter to the Director, and to the Chief of Enforcement. There was significantly more enforcement out last August than the previous couple seasons I've fished it. I'd like to think it was due to public pressure.

Thanks for everyone's input.

Dan, when are we going to fish again? Lets do the Lower C next week.

Vince

I can't do next week. I'm headed up north for a 3-4 day trip. I'll hit you up when I get back and see how you've been doing down there.

Good luck with your endeavors.

And when they tie up live fish to a rock and keep fishing with the fish flopping around, hoping for a different one so they can let that one go?

hey guys i am new here but have fished the river for quite a few years and a river i love, being the one i learned this wonderful sport on, in my years on the skok i have notice alot of changes from my first years up until now and i would say an early closure is best say at the end of august, a later start would only cause a major blow up in anglers that would put alot of pressure on the peak time of the run when the crowds typically taper out and native presence is high. any time there is an opener on the skok it is inevitable there will be major crowds on the river for example the 06 year where there was a closure on sept 15 to oct 31 that turned ugly when oct 1 came, so many people i was in shock! normally if there is no closure october is relatively light on crowds so i feel keeping it how it is would be the best because with the amount of people that will show with openers will basically total to that over the season time span, a good idea would be to close the river above 101 during the first 2 weeks of september and let those fish do buisness while fresh fish can still be targeted, these are just my thoughts and opinions based on my observations over the years, also a question i have is how will pumping the new 240 cfs into the north fork affect the lower river? i have a feeling we are looking at a new river this year with more water and how will this affect access, clarity, holes, fish, etc?

Thanks for giving up the lurk and posting. As far as your question goes regarding the summer chinook fishery, who knows how it'll affect the fishing. Above 850 cfs on the lower river, bank access starts to become limited. Above 1,200 it is almost nonexistent. I don't think that the extra bit of water out of Cushman will limit access. How it changes where fish hold during the normally low flows of August, well that's the game. If I told you the answer it'd be too easy. I wouldn't want to ruin it for you.

Vince

yeah i am really excited to see what the new river will have in store, i am ready for any conditions, i would hope that the fish will start moving higher in the system so it wont be such a congested fishery. maybe enough water to use toons even drift boat in the fall all high hopes and dreams for this little river with high potential! only wish they could reintroduce the steelies!!

and i meant closure from 106 bridge up during that time period, 101 just wouldnt make sense..

I can count on one hand the number of legit guys I saw down there in the 30ish trips I took there last season. It would take many more than that to count the snaggers I saw there during the week. And to count the weekend warrior snaggers would be damn near impossible. The pressure is tenfold on the weekends, relatively its a ghost town during the week. If it's about protecting the fish, snagger opportunity shouldn't be much of a concern. Warden's work during the week too. And with less people there it would be much more managible for them to inforce the rules. The guys that are there during the week on normal years, are going to be there during the week no matter what. The week day guys are not many, and impact the fish the least. If weekends are shut down, the total number of people that fish the Skokomish will drop hugely, as will the impacts. Just makes sense to me...Later


Jake

I suppose if I were to really put my finger on where I'd like things to be I suppose I wouldn't be opposed to it closing early say the first week of and September perhaps even August 30. To be honest I really think no matter what we do with the season were still going to have to contend with the extra CRAP no matter what it's just sadly part of fishing today and the only real way to prevent it is to close the river entirely but then nobody's happy and they'll still continue to do it.

that is an OUTSTANDING point, i recall that quite well. i never made it down there on the re-opener on oct. 1st that year, but i fished a couple days later(during the week). i could not believe how many people were there on a tuesday, it looked like blue creek in the early '90s in the middle of december, and i'm not even talking about largely popular holes. not much in the line of fish either, aside from a few scared-to-death coho blasting past everyone. i left shortly.

october 1 came and went last year, without a whole lot of change. i think that had *maybe* something to do with it, just maybe. whenever an opener is created, pressure explodes out there.

making the 100 yards up or downriver from the mouth of purdy creek off limits to fishing isn't a bad idea probably, but it'd be better spent building a lookout for wardens there(like it's hard to bust snagger dirtbags in that spot anyway).

there is a small, but growing, almost underground group of legitimate regulars around there, and they're good company. really put a hurt on those coho with eggs, too....