Just saw an article where in Oregon they are firing wild fire crew formen because they do not speak spanish. The powers to be hired a large number of mexican fire fighters when the ranks were over-extended. Now they are going to lay off the existing crew leaders instead of requiring the new firefighters to learn english. This was America before the liberal do gooders took over.

"liberal"? You think importing cheap labor comes from liberals huh?

Spot on.

Liberal,bleeding hearts,socialists, you can call them whatever you like. This country we knew a few short years ago is now gone. We are now supposed to give anyone who steps foot on our soil the same, no make that more rights than the native population. I don't mean just the indians. I am a native American. I was born in Montana. I hope you like the idea of your wages going down as prices rise due to this "cheap" labor. When the employers are required to give them benifits like medical and we no longer need translaters in the emergency rooms for the ones who go there with a cold,then it will be more level playing field.

Laterun,

You seem to completely have missed stlhead's and Irie's point. Your two examples are perfect: 1) medical benefits not being given by an employer and 2) lack of health care which leads to situations where emergency rooms are in crisis. You think it is "liberals" causing the problems? Sounds like you need to turn the radio dial.

I don't listen to talk radio as it is all slanted b.s.. I don't think that liberalism has a political party. There are probably just as many Republicans that feel we should help the immigrants (legal/illegal) as there are Democrats. Maybe liberal is the wrong word, but I think you should now see to whom I am referring.

Maybe you mean capitalists trying to increase the bottom line for the benefit of their stock holders.

I guess that is what should be expected as these are government jobs. It is way more important to be politically correct than to be just.

More medical benefits from an employer would happen if they had tax breaks for them to make them more affordable. I own a small B and do give all my employees health care benef. Yet all I hear is how I should pay more in taxes and the 60mil people in america that pay nothing and get handouts are so hurting. 35% I guess is not enough of my income to pay.....should be %40 and then screw you rich guy, you get all the breaks. While we are at it lets give "universal" health care. It will only be another 5% raise in taxes over 40% on the "rich". 45% is not that bad. That way, every poor small company in America have to pay for all the lazy a$$es that dont do anythign for themselves.
And on the second point, if we shut the borders and had less people who have no ID, money, insurance, address.......ect, the emergency rooms would not be so crouded and you would get right in. Believe me, I have worked in them everywhere from San Fran to Boston. To try to say the answer is all about the "liberal ideals" is a joke. Any two year old could tell you that 5% of the population should not have to pay 45% of there income while 60mil pay nothing.

do you have alink to the story?

docspud, I hear you, before I retired I was giving about 42% back each week. I can understand the logic,I was in the craft unions and caught sh!t from people all the time like I was the reason thier wages were so low. I tried to explain that even though I did not agree with all the things unions did,if it weren't for the unions everyone would be working twelve hour days for $5. an hour.

Talk radio is Ego Masturbation, whichever slant it caters to. They're just stroking the opinion center of your brain long enough to make you listen to their commercials and let you feel morally superior and correct.

The State of Arizona last summer passed a bill revoking the business licences of companies that employ illegals because illegal immigration was undercutting the wages and quality of life for Arizona Citizens and the local GOP hacks down there $hit a brick.

That right there in a nutshell sums up the GOP and their views on the working class, immigration, and corporations.

Can you prove this or do you think all business owners republicans?

http://www.azcentral.com/business/articles/0301sanctions0301.html

From what I have read the bill passed pretty much unanmisouly (SP) with both democrat and republicans who voted no.. You should probably do a little more research..

I completely agree with Docspud, my parents own a small business and pay health care for there employees with very little benefit to them in the form of tax breaks. I personally don't want to pay for healthcare for anyone but myself, nor do I feel it necessary to help people who put themselves in bad situations from there own Piss Poor Life decisions.

Employer paid health care is tax deductible. If you want your ins to be deductible then you have to provide it your employees otherwise pay your own way without a deduction. If you run a business in this state – you just have to want a better system considering health care is probably one of your major expenses if your Union health care is about 25%+ of wages, non-union 35%+. Our gov will be drained & ruined if we do not figure out how to better spend gov dollars on health care. WA is probably the worst state price wise.

But back to the thread, if I went to France to work – I would have to learn French – if I didn’t have to I would any way! Good grief Why wouldn’t I? It seems that the foreman are being discriminated against - especially since it is a firing not hiring requirement. So here is my gripe -the thing that really irks me BIG TIME is when I call customer service for an American Comp that sells in America to Americans & am given a person most often in India who I do not understand. If you are hiring someone to speak for your company shouldn’t you hire someone who speaks the language of your customers well enough to be understood and who can understand your customer? Is our minimum wage really so much to warrant this? How much does it cost to call India anyway? Less than minimum wage and an hour on the phone trying to understand eachother, less than mad customers? I guess not if everyone else is doing it. Wish there was at least an option push 1 for Mexico, 2 for….. maybe I could speak that language and at least get somewhere.

We need the link to the story. No link=Internet rumor...

the democrat platform is not to make English the official language of America. Hillary said we should all learn another language.

I HAD to call the IRS last week. "Hell-o, if you would like to continue in English press 1."

Well you know Chasbo we need to make it as easy as possible to collect the money due our country before they send it back home to their country.

If you watched the dem debates than you would know that both said English should be our main language to unify. Hillary said she wished she spoke another language Obama just smiled.

I work in a union shop and our healthcare package is not "GIVEN" to us. We negociate a new contract every 3 years and the costs for healthcare come out of the total wage package.

What is so bad about letting people shop for their own health insurance ?

Do people really think forcing employers to buy health insurance makes it "free" ?

Their are plenty of under achievers out there who don't have anything to lose, what exactly do they gain by having $500 per month worth of insurance when they don't even have $500 of net worth ?

Insurance company propaganda...

P.S. There are lots of laborer types out there that would rather have another dollar an hour than medical insurance...been prooved.

I didnt say anything about business owners, I said the GOP. Most of them were lobbyists and party shills & corporate interest groups taking advantage of the abundance of illegals in AZ.

Why didn't the republicans vote it down then? And why did both democrats and republicans voteagainst the bill (minority, the bill won by a margin of over 3 to 1). I think your grasping for straws here Irie.

What about a guy who is temporarily down on his luck. Lost his job and before he found a new one got hurt with no benefit coverage. You don't think we should as a society help him?

Why should we help him? If he had a job that provided insurance then he should have signed up for Cobra when he was let go. If he got hurt bad enough that it was life changing there are already several options availaible for them..

Dave
Hypothetically, Sheryl gets knocked up in highschool and chooses to drink and party for the next few years.. before she knows it she's 25 with 4 kids from different daddies, Why should society help her? Why should my taxpayer money go to support them?

I have known people who when they lost their job had to make the choice between Cobra and eating, it's not a difficult choice when money is that tight.

It's not her your helping, it's the kids and that is what seperates us from the 3rd world countries. There is plenty of money to give everyone free health care, the Government just chooses to spend it on other BS stuff.

Since your taxpayer money has to go somewhere why not make health care the first place and then let the rest fall where it may. I'd love to see us run out of money for artillery on our current war adventure.

Not me, I don't particularly enjoy Chinese food or Vodka.
By helping her and her kids you generally just end up paying for them in Prision and them continuing the cycle. Sorry I have no urge to help those people. By paying for her it continues to enable to cycle. So no F..em

Bring the Troops home,muscle wetbacks back over the border and cease giving handouts.

Are you implying that leaving Iraq would lead to China or Russia taking over the US?

Also, if you don't help those kids, don't you think the odds of them ending up in "prision" would be higher? And, you'd still be paying for them then. How does not paying for them "stop the cycle"?

No but disarming the military as some are propenents of doing would. Iraq is a bad situation, but the sublect has already been beat to death. Lets see Cheryl has one kid and gets govement support so things are tight but she still survives. Cheryl has one kid and gets nothing, back to the rents to try and figure out life rather than keep poppin out our next generatrion of prisoners and welfare mothers.

I'm only making a guess here, but is Cheryl your mom's name? I'm also guessing you're a big "God bless America" kinda guy, and America is a "Christian nation" and "Muslims just want to kill all us Christians."

Dude, you're a walking contradiction.

I'd also suggest you adopt a policy of at least 6 hours from bottle to keyboard.

Please elaborate on how I am a walking contradiction? My moms name is Shaquanda BTW . Actually If you did any research the muslims would have killed Cheryl during her first pregnancy in hardline countries. What if I am a muslim? I couldn't pick you out in a room of 1, and I bet the same goes for me. So once again, how am I a walking contradiction?

Without social programs you'd have complete anarchy. Starvation, homelessness, disease, crime and violence. You, as a taxpayer, are going to pay either way you look at it so you might as well choose the option that keeps the peace.

Link to the story...www.katu.com/news/3634401.html

NOT an internet rumor,nor unsubstanciated.

I read the article, couldn't believe the part were The Dept of Forestry says they don't have "that many" illegals working. It is a simple procedure to match ss# to names & dob via internet IRS I-9 procedures when hiring, even if documents are forged, it is easy to determine an illegal. So when the new pres takes over - will they prosecute those at The Dept of Forestry? The canidates said they intend to prosecute employers for hiring illegals - "to the fullest extent".

It is a HUGE safety issue when people are unable to communicate on jobsites. Such a safety issue that if you hire people who do not speak english you should hire an interpreter.

Wriveroutlaw:
Companies with under 20 employees are not required by law to offer COBRA. If a person gets sick while covered there is no preexisting exclusion, but if a policy lapses, even though they got sick while covered - preexisting will not be covered. Is that any insurance to you? You think people should be given their premiums in wages -younger people will not buy. The thing is the gov will cover them, or they will get care in ER, it is a law, ER cannot refuse treatment. You don't like this law but imagine if the ER could chose who to treat, do you really want such a system? If you do then make sure you carry a current updated card on your body at all times. Your comment about Muslims is ignorant. Stlhead said it perfectly but I would like to add to keeping the peace - chose the option that is fiscally responsible for the gov, which is not making billionaries out of the ins CEOs at the expense of our gov. There is no free lunch - (I think it was you that said that before) - so work the formula -it is more than a cliche. The only way to solve our healthcare problem is to get everyone covered, only then we will have any reasonable control over the ins comps. Iraq is not just a mere "bad situation that has been beaten to death", aka your tired of hearing about it? No, "not beaten to death" even if you don't want to hear about it anymore.

I just love that all the big Bush supporters keep waving the flag,saying we need to support the troops (which I do) and label anyone who opposes the war as being unpatriotic. It is amazing to see the results of all the government brainwashing and how easy it is to accomplish. As a direct result of this "war",we see the price of gas just keep rising. It is just a conincidence that big business is showing record profits as our soldiers die on a daily basis and we as a nation go further in debt.
Can anyone tell me why,other than to "stop the rise of Communism" we spent so much and lost so many in Vietnam? Does anyone really believe we would have been any worse off as a country if we had never paid the price of Vietnam? This "war" will go down as our biggest waste of funds and man power to date. But like anything else, we will not learn anything from it and repeat it at some later date.
I honestly believe that as soon as we pull out of Iraq there will be a massive civil war and we will see another similar group in power like the one that was ousted.Religious wars NEVER end.

I love this type of convers. Lets look at it logically. How do you intend to pay for(everyone covered.)? God knows we cant raise taxes on the "middle class" which I happen to consider myself even if the gov does not. Dont ask the 60mil that pay nothing and leach off "social programs". They could not possibly go get a job because then they would have no time to do the other things that make life livable for them, drink, smoke of the glass, pop out more kids, collect welfare....ets. Let raise taxes on the "rich". They pay a higher % now by 10%, just up it another 5% and all is well and good. Social sec gets in more trouble.....dont try to fix it, just raise the payrole tax on the "rich" again 3% more or adjusting the cap should do it. Need more money for medicare.......get those "rich" again, 2% this time. finacial uncertainty, you guessed it...."rich" again. Morgage crisis, rich. Need more taxes for any and everything else, rich, because noone knows who the hell that is anyway until all of the sudden you are in the government crosshairs.
When this country was founded, it was biult on a society of hard workers "working" to get ahead. The CEOs did not get where they are at by sitting on there a$$es. Doctors and lawyers and everyone else that went ot 10+ years of college and grad school got there by hard work. We accumulate hundreds of thousands of dollars in loans that will take 20 year to pay off. We start office that we will finally own when we are in our 60's. These are now the "rich" that pay for your social programs, not the corp titons, and pay for everything else as well. Small business owners who worked from the ground up and could end up being you in hte end should you decide to go that route. Money is tight and all we ever hear is how we should pay more. When did this society start punishing hard work and rewarding laziness. That was not what we were founded on and it is sad that it where we seem to be headed.
This is the truth....I am so tired of being told that I dont pay enough in taxes at 35% of my income and just raise them to pay for these "plans" politicians come up with to get votes. If you want coverage, then get a job and pay for it. I have a small business and there are riders that cover after people leave and there plan does not just "end" as was stated before. Every plan Bluewater has the option of extension if the person wants it beyond what is already covered but yes it should be them that pays for it. ER which I have worked in around the country are slammed with people who should not be in the country and that is why there are lines and it costs so much. Dont start on the Muslim crap because my wife is muslim and yes, some are allowed to marry though we would be killed in some other countries if we did. The vast majority are hard working great people but there are a small % that need a cruise missile dropped on their heads(the ones that dance in the street when a school bus of jewish shildren are blown up my a "martyr"). Our health care problem will be fixed when people stop stating everyone has a inherrant right to everything and start saying you need to work to take care of yourself. Save money for a rainy day and dont go buy that extra six pack for the weekend if you cant afford it. If it is out of your control then it should be covered as emergency care (as is done now) but not a legal citizen, tough. Handouts are what has made this country weak. Socialist societies which there are many have terrible economies because there is no drive to get ahead. No incentive to work. Everyone should pay their share and quit asking for everyone else to do it for them. Sorry for the rant but just think about it.

Blue Water pro

http://islamiclawetc.wordpress.com/2007/01/29/capital-punishment-for-a-rape-victim/

Hmm, I don't hate muslims by a long shot. I dated a muslim girl for a while and got some insight into to culture. If you want to put your head in the sand its fine.

Sthlhead,

"Starvation, homelessness, disease, crime and violence"

Have you not read the papers or walked the streets of any metropolitan city.. These problems already exist.

Wriveroutlaw,
I'm sorry if it seemed I said you hated Muslims, I was not saying that, didn't even think that. Typing on the internet can get things confused. I meant that I considered the comment ignorant because I see those militant anti-woman actions to be due to the culture of a country - really to me it is nothing more than that. American Muslims would never consider such a thing. I understand now what you were saying. Can you understand what I am saying?


Docspud,
I should sit down & figure out the #s involved but I havent' because I see billionarie ins CEOs & know they are making money by handing off the sick to our gov. Cut out those billionaries & give the $ to the gov to fund what they already pay for -health care for the sick. If I wanted to make $ in ins, couldn't think of a better way to make it then the current system. Ins people well enough to work but not with a term policy but rather a policy that ends when they are too sick to work, then the big bills will be paid by the gov or absorbed by the hospitals who just passes the cost on to the rest of us. No free lunch, it is dispersed & carried by all, the bill will always be there. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out we are being ripped off. Even if people bought individually, if they couldn't work they probably couldn't pay premiums & if they could, the ins would find a way to exclude.

I have a friend who is a surgeon that I knew in college. He worked day & night & couldn't afford to eat & still works harder & longer than most. He is smart enough to have been anything. He will not be rich until he is 60? He is rich now in his 40s. Everyone has an idea of rich but I don't know anyone that wouldn't consider him rich. He deserves what he earns, I never thought we should go after the docs that afterall is the ins comps other agenda.

Many families are homeless due to med bills, many people have died due to lack of ins. Why? Not for the benefit of our gov economy but rather to make a CEO another billion, or to give a bonus to those who finds a way to hand off the expensive to our gov. They are in business to make $ not care for sick people - you gotta get that!

We're all typing in english on this thread, but I would not say that it is unifying us in any way based on the opinions posted.

Unfortunately, we do have all those things!

I kind of see where your coming from.. But billionaire CEO's make up a miniscule portion of our society. Additionally most of the companies ran by billionaire CEO's provide health care to there employees. If you really want to see healthcare prices go down.. Change the laws to better protect doctors from ambulance chasing attorneys who drive up costs by suing doctors for everything.

You want to see health care prices go down quit charging US citizens more for drugs than the rest of the world pays. Drugs made here by US companies who get substantial tax breaks and rubber stamp approval by their shill called the FDA.

There was a time when health care was more affordable - before the HMO's. They are just another mouth to feed (a huge mouth) when we could just have doctors make the call on what a patient needs. Same with hospitals, too many administrators instead of healers. Rant, rant, rant...

Gee, I dunno, how about asking every other industrialized nation how they do it? I mean, being as how we're reputedly the richest nation and all.....

Rick, you're back! Nice to see you again!

GoHarley
You sticking around? Missed your posts

I'll be around increasingly more, I hope.

Huh Its pretty easy how they do it, they tax the sh!t out of everyone and take away the incentives for working hard..

Are you implying that no other industrialized nation's citizens work hard? And if they are taxed so heavily, why are there not more industrialized nations whose majority of citizens are in poverty? And if for-profit health care relies on the hope that people become gravely ill to increase the profit margin, does this not seem somewhat morally deficient?