Rob,

At the Mill Creek meeting this week, CCA had a representitive present that provided a letter from CCA regarding that fishery. Part of that letter was posted on another board and I will share it here. I can't vouch for authenticity, but I'm pretty sure it came from CCA.



To my knowledge, CCA has not taken an official position on hatchery policy as yet. I'm hopeful that they make something similar to the above as our position.

For others who seem to think GARY LOOMIS is the CCA, I am here to tell you that idea is WRONG. Every chapter has representation on the state board. Gary doesn't do the decision making, no matter what someone claims.

I failed to put one thing in my post and it needs to be said:


Kerry Batson and Batson Enterprises


WELCOME ABOARD!!


Make sure you introduce yourself at the next meeting!



JimB

Quote: "that's the attitude that the $25 experts always like to trot out...they're so uneducated about the world of fisheries politics that they think the CCA invented it."

Statements like that conveniently ignore all the huge successes CCA has had in othe parts of the country.

Haliman, it's dipsticks like you have never done anything for the resource, don't know what you are talking about, and decided that you are now an expert after hearing a bullchit presentation and spending $25.

I guarantee you I've done more to protect you and your fishing in the past six months than you've ever done, not to mention the past fifteen years.

Don't let the fact that most advocates and groups aren't playing to the masses in the media fool you into thinking nothing is going on...fish don't get saved there.

STFU? Indeed...you are the reason why the CCA will either need to change greatly, or will fail magnificently...the arrogance of people who have done nothing, know little, but think they are now experts is overwhelmingly going to ruin the already tenuous reputation that the CCA has, not to mention its serious integrity problem.

A bunch of members sitting around patting each other on the backs for their $25 checks doesn't get you anywhere, and attitudes like yours (ignorant and arrogant combined) are the ones that get ridden out of meeting rooms and court room so fuckin fast that your head will spin.

Fish on...

Todd

I hope they take no stand on hatcheries. The local chapters tend to make there own agendas. Right now it is focusing on harvest. Hatcheries are a divisive issue, but then again Rob, your a divisive person so there probably better with out you anyways.

As for the whole hatchery issue, there hasn't been a hatchery steelhead planted above tidewater on the neahlem (there is a run on the Nfork nehalem which comes in in tidewater) in 15 years and yet there runs are not booming like you think, in fact the wilson which is bombarded with hatchery fish still has about as many nates as the Nehalem. Hmm, there are much bigger issues that hatcheries affecting our native salmon and steelhead stocks. Ocean harvest, predation, and habitat are much bigger issues imho.

steelspanker, this isn't "other parts of the country", and no matter what they've done elsewhere, they haven't done it here yet, and they didn't invent fisheries politics.

To use the ridiculous notion touted by a few above, but many others in the past year, that if you're not part of the "CCA Solution" than you're "Part of the Problem" will not get the actual players on their side...and, in fact, will do just the opposite.

The followers of the CCA seem to think that they are going to walk in a room and dictate down what's gonna happen, then walk back out and get in their boat and go fishing, and there will be more fish there 'cuz they said there would be.

They are in for a very, very rude awakening...very rude...and their membership is evidently going to be very surprised when...

1. commercial net fishing is not banned asap
2. the Boldt Decision is going absolutely nowhere, ever
3. "selective" commercial fishing on the Columbia will save one single fish

...and then what?

I already know what...they'll whine, complain, and their leadership will tell them it's someone else's fault...and the world will go on.

Fish on...

Todd

P.S. Jim, that list of things that the CCA is proposing is a good list of things...

"They are: Selective Fishing; Derelict Fishing Gear; Hatchery Funding and Reform; Catch Monitoring and Evaluation; Harvest Management; Nutrification of our Freshwater Ecosystems"

...but it's not like those things aren't already being done.

There are people working on the Derelict Gear programs, and they have been for decades, not just in the past 12 months. They need to be funded better, and if the CCA can help with that, then more power to 'em, but it's not like it's not already happening, and would be happening if the CCA weren't ever here..

Hatchery funding and reform is a big topic, one that every group is working on, and has been working on for years...and we'll all be working on it for years, too. What new is the CCA planning on bringing to the table?

Harvest Management? Whoever it is above who keeps saying that no one cares about it except the CCA needs to have their head checked. It's a constant concern, especially in Puget Sound, and it's directly tied in with fifty other issues...to think that no one but the CCA is concerned about it is ludicrous, and goes to show how uninformed many of the folks involved actually are.

Nutrient enhancement...you don't think Gary invented that on Cedar Creek, too, do you? It's been going on for decades, too, both here and in B.C.

Hell, I've gone and tossed carcasses several times...and believe it or not, I'm not a CCA member, and the CCA wasn't even here in Washingtong ten years ago when I started working on those programs.

Having lofty "issues" that are on the horizon of the CCA is NOT having positions and actions...anyone could start a group tomorrow and give you a list of issues, but that doesn't mean jack until they get out there and start working on them, and come up with some ideas on how to get it done...and if the attitudes displayed by the CCA members and leaders on this thread is any indication of how they are going to go about it, then they will fail miserably.

WRO,

As I said, to my knowledge there is no official CCA position at this time. However, I don't see any way around admitting the Hatchery Scientific Review Groups recommendations are today's best science regarding hatcheries. If CCA adopts a hatchery policy based on those recommendations, it would only make sense.

Unless you've taken the time to read those recommendations, (and admittedly, I have only read their opinions on my local rivers and some on the Columbia because it's a very technical and long read) how can you know if you agree or not?

Todd, no one is trying to take the wind out of your sails here, the reason I and most others are looking to the CCA is that SAMO SAMO SHIAT from wdfg just is not cutting it anymore. People are fed up .................

NWP, it has nothing to do with the wind in my sails...it has to do with the attitudes of the newbies to the political world who think they've already got it all figured out...it's like talking to a 16 year old high school kid about relationships and politics...they've got it all figured out, and can't seem to figure out why anyone, and I mean anyone would question their great perspectives.

I can tell you this...anyone who starts a sentence with "See, it's simple..." and they are talking about fisheries politics in the Pacific Northewest, then they've already proven that they are utterly incapable of getting anything done...and the great majority of the Kool-Aid drinkers do seem to think it's simple, as simple as saying "We're the CCA! This is how things will be now, and it will be Good!"...and that's the "rude awakening" coming down the pike I was talking about above.

Fish on...

Todd

One point that I would like to make, whether a sport fisher is or is not a CCA member.

We all need to become more politically active. Write letters, send emails, make phone calls to your legislators, the WDFG Commissioners, the WDFG Director and staff and your legistlators regarding fisheries issues.

CCA may be a rallying point for changes in the PNW, it may succeed, it may not, but it is a start.

It is time to make your voices heard.

One of the first tenets of negotiating is, "if you don't ask, the answer is always no."

O.K, your right.. but a lot feel that FOCUSING ON HARVEST FOR SPORTSMAN, which is most of what anything I have seen from the CCA.. is the samo samo samo samo [censored]. You just enable the status quo

My thoughts go back to the WSR issue.. If CCA were on board with that.. you know, the simple idea that you can still go fishing without taking a cooler along, then it would be semi credible

B-Run, you aren't the only one who has expressed that concern. I've made my feelings known. I'm not interested in allocation grabs and if that's what it turns into, I'm gone. I have also seen some of what you're talking about, but it wasn't apparent when I observed the WA state board in action. It was just the opposite. Of course, you have to realize we've got two separate state boards so far, and soon to be 3, I hope.

If CCA is in favor of selective fishing, that implies they want us to release wild fish, does it not?

Todd, B run steely, I know that you realize that a large # of voters can and will effect change of some sort. Add your knowlege to that pool and maybe it will get somewhere good. I really think that the CCA can and will build that pool, and I am trying to help, mostly to make up for all I havent done over the years and hopefully to leave something behind me for the kids and grandkids.

Less "implication" and more "explanation ".. so far, anytime I talk with the Idaho guys who are involved with CCA, they don't have a clue what it is they are standing for, they just know its " a really great thing !!".

To back track a bit, it is a cool deal that so many have actually gotten involved. That in itself is a change in direction.

Todd makes a good point that battles have been fought for years. The ones that matter have been lost. I feel the only way nets will ever leave any river is if Sportsmen are ready to go first. Its possible to have sport fishing forever. Harvest ?? probably not, when hatchery's are gone. I also can't really get all excited about dams coming down. Not in my lifetime. I used to think so but am more realistic these days.

What I can do is what I have always done. Support the groups that I know the mission statement is very clear. I.S.S.U T.U and Idaho rivers united.

I also call Larry Craig every so often and tell him he is fired. Come to find out, not only is it true I can't fire him, he can't even seem to fire himself.

Quote: "steelspanker, this isn't "other parts of the country", and no matter what they've done elsewhere, they haven't done it here yet, and they didn't invent fisheries politics."

Yes Todd, we do have unique fisheries compared to other parts of the country. However, there are some similarities worth noting that exemplify how previous CCA successes can be applied here.

Snook in South Florida: During the few years I lived in South Florida, I considered snook my steelhead replacement. They lived in the ocean, moved nearshore to spawn, and the juveniles would feed and grow "upriver" in the brackish inshore tidal streams. I even caught adult snook well upriver in "freshwater" canals, miles from the ocean.

CCA was instrumental in stopping non-selective fishing (gillnets) there and then later proceeded to help improve and preserve the estuaries/tidal streams in which the snook depend for their survival.

My fishing buddy in Florida was a lifelong Florida resident and he said that the snook and redfish fishing was greatly improved after CCA helped ban the nets etc. I can attest that we had many awesome fishing days (CnR BTW).

So while much attention has been on CCAPNW's aim to get rid of the gillnets, I am confident that with our help CCAPNW will become more multi-faceted in the approach to restoring our anadromous runs. But don't expect CCA to announce publically every approach to be taken. As someone said above, "When you go to war you don't tell your plans to both friends and your enemies."

We (sporties) need to be a unified force to make a real difference.

Look why many sports fishing advocacy groups have failed in the PNW. Its because they get involved in the really divisive issues. If a group fights gill nets on the columbia, that benefits both native and hatchery steelhead as well as salmon. Most are onboard with having more fish. Now proclaim that your both either pro wild fish or pro hatchery fish and either position will alienate a large portion of the constituients, Less people makes groups weaker.

Sorry, but from my reasearch, I've found that CCA doesn't take the popular position, they take the one supported by science and science tells us interaction between hatchery and wild fish is bad. I don't know how they can avoid taking a position.

I don't know if the HSRG is doing any work in Oregon, so Oregon may not want to consider their recommendations as a basis for a policy. I do think WA should, but I'm just one member.

Sadly, as a paying, card-carrying CCA member, even I don't have a clue as to what they are standing for in Washington State, let alone locally.....

As far as I can tell from looking at the local chapters website, the goals are to make more money and get more membership. Past that, it's very vague.

I do get a nifty magazine that rehashes HARVEST techniques on fish. No joke. Last magazine contained a rehashed article by a STS author on how to harvest^C^C^C^C^C^C^Ccatch springers.

If I could, I'd take my $25 back, as I personally feel CCA has done nothing for me or for the resource now, nor will it in a year from now. Just glad I didn't toss $25 down the sewer *last* year. At least I'm only down $25, and not $50.

I was at a seminar a month or so ago and a representative of CCA made a short presentation. One of his comments claimed that CCA will end gill net fishing in three years. To tell you the truth that turned me off right there. I believe the individual who made the statement was sincere, but he was certainly a neophyte when it comes to politics.

I maintain that the fish are politicized and the war to get changes will be a long one and those changes will only come through the political process. Washington is not the East Coast or the Gulf when it comes to fish politics or for any other issue.

Too many organizations have come and gone. I will join the one that tells it like it is, with all of the terrible realities, not the one that creates false hopes with a fast fix.

I just like to fish and hope I always can. I am amazed to no end that our salmon and steelhead have put up with as much crap as we have dealt them already. I guess we do all have that thought in common. My life is pretty much centered around it. Most all my friends are guys I steelhead or fly fish with. We don't all agree with each other, but we do have a good time.

I fly fish most often. A couple weeks ago on a local river thats closed to the retention of brown trout, a guy took some pictures of a Hispanic family fishing. Cooking hot dogs, two kids running around the mini van, a dog. The dad was bait fishing. Not real common.. but legal. He caught a brown trout and kept it. So this guy takes the pictures of the license plate, and calls the fish and game. This all plays out on an internet forum and along the way its assumed that this guy is probably an illegal alien, probably has a meth lab someplace as well. Fish and game actually tracked this guy down and nailed him. That very weekend, I am sturgeon fishing with some friends. The wind was brutal and we were trying to put a sled on a trailer at the boat ramp and there was a family fishing off the ramp. Totally in the way. I ran off my mouth and the guy looked at me like " I'm just trying to have a little family time here, I ain't no pro and it sucks already.. wife can't stand it and now here you are ".. Some how between those two incidents, I just felt like a dick. What means everything to me is just a thing to do for most. I resolved to change my attitude and see if I could not get some respect for the little guy. We will see how that goes.

All I can really do now to feel better is call Larry and fire him again, or maybe go catch a few bass and eat them.. that always helps