The coho re-introduction program goes much deeper than just the Yakima. Coho are also being released into the Wenatchee and the Methow rivers.

When you gonna have those in stock? A 3/0 sickle siwash should really stick in those ass-biters.

since i'm very certain now if this entire post was that a white man group or organization had 15,000 nooks returning to a inland watershed. everybody would be happy and aplauding the great job they have done.


well, brewer is very certain now i'll never buy anything from RVR FISHER products. if this is the what you two stand for then thats very sad. my respect for the Owners of RVR FISHER products is officially tanked.

Knock yourself out, Brewer...

Maybe you're still having trouble with the topic...this is about a COHO re-introduction program...the damage has already been done with the hatchery springer turds.

No one will be fishing for these coho except the Yakamas, since they will not be clipped.

Fish on...

Todd

You have shown a lot of class with that post Brewer.

Next time try a pm.

Never saw a problem with areeing to disagree.

I will continue to buy their products, even though I may not fully agree with them.

BOT

1. Where was it mentioned in the article that these Coho smolts would NOT be clipped?

2. Who cares if these fish are clipped or not? Not everything is about stocking up the freezer.

3. Over a period of time, when the run has been built up there will be a fishery.

4. These programs are approved and funded by BPA. And because I'm a power user, I'm a supporter.

Mf

They're supposed to be spawning naturally, so they can't be clipped.

These fish are entirely 100% about filling up the freezer...but not yours. With every coho stock in the Columbia Basin either extinct or listed, there won't be much, if any coho fishing by sportsmen over unclipped coho.

I would think that a BPA power user would not like the fact that they are paying an ecologically disastrous hatchery program for fish that we won't be able to fish for.

Fish on...

Todd

By the time MOST of these fish hit the mouth of the Yak, they'll be smoker fare @ best...kinda like their fall chinook cousins, which are NOT clipped. These Kings fish were RE-introduced some years back, and if the #'s are their we'll have season. I don't believe the Indians target the Fall run back here.

It will be interesting how the segregating process will work at Rosa...because non of the clipped chinook are allowed to pass up stream only the wild fish.

I believe Cupo touched on it, these Coho are piss poor biters this high up. I've never seen one Silver caught while fishing for Fall Kings.

Mf

I don't think it matters much if they're good biters or not...I'm guessing the Yakamas won't be fishing for them with rods and reels.

Fish on...

Todd

Down below Parker Dam, I"m sure it'll look similar to tuna fishing.

I should clarify (yes) I'm sure the Indians target all returning fish... regardless of what shape they arrive in.

To what extent they sell, for ceremonial, personnel use...I don't know.

It's going to happen, bank on it. The NEW Cowlitz of the east. lol

Mf

i've witnessed many yakama indians fishing rod/reel todd. i get the idea todd your talking alot of ignorance when it comes to the yakama indian ways. they do not run gillnets on the river. the dipnet practice is what they do. i have watched the dipsters work hard for hours. it's not a easy way to take fish. it really is work. i have zero issues with dip netting it trully is traditional. todd you see i am talking of actual visual knowledge, i have had many conversations with them. they are no different than anyone else who have had thier @sses kicked by the whiteman and thrown on poor reservations. had the natural resources raped for selfish monotary gain. they are doing what they can to regain what was taken or stolen.


if what the yakamas are doing is so wrong todd and rvr, educate me on how you two would fix 50 years of whiteman total disregard for the yakima river and it's salmon?

I think what I said...actually, I know what I said...is that it doesn't matter if they are good biters or not, because the Yakamas won't likely be using rods and reels for them. I've seen the Yakamas use rods/reels, actually, and the ones who were actually fishing rather than snagging were catching more than the snaggers...this was on the Icicle.

Brewer, justifying an ecologically harmful hatchery program by pointing out that others have done equally or worse ecologically harmful things to the river and its fish doesn't make any sense to me whatsoever...and piling yet another obstacle in the way of fish recovery there isn't helping anything, whether you are white, red, purple, or orange colored, or if you fish with kitchen spoons or machine guns.

Fish on...

Todd

pastor todd, how is the cle elum, a ecological harmful hatchery program?

you failed to explain how you would fix the problem, unless doing nothing is your solution..... hmmmm

Wait Todd,
Are you saying that you believe that these fish will be able to establish themselves naturally? I believe you did. ***"They're supposed to be spawning naturally, so they can't be clipped." **** But how is this possible. I am sure you have stated over and over it isn't. I can vaguely see you worrying about dumping a ton of smolt in a river and competing with the very few wild steelhead there, but... Do you really think that the few steelhead that are there are all the system can support. Is it really that sterile. And if it is, couldn't the dumping of carcasses and natural carcasses help with this?
But lets go further into your logic. Under the premises you presented the fish will establish themselves and then will be so sucessfull they will overwhelm few the wild steelhead that are there.
Since originally there were salmon here, wouldn't returning the salmon and eradicating the non-native trout be make more sense under your line of thinking? I am a firm believer that natural straying occurs and is benefical to the overall health of a run. Since there appears to be no native stock to use, using the lower river stocks may not be as bad of an idea as you represent it to be.
The only arguements I can see that you may have is that they will continue to supplement this run only with hatchery smolts or that they will then gill net these fish and take listed steelhead as by-catch. To this I have no answer and am not versed well enough on run timing and future harvest plans to comment, ...but,... under the same line of thinking, isn't it possible that the fishery on the non-native trout in the upper river has as much or more of an effect then the tribal fishery would.
I have a hard time being against the attempt to return a naturally occuring run. Especially if the hope is that the run could be self sustaining.

I'm not understanding a couple things in this thread. What's the remark about non-native trout? Both cutthroat and rainbow trout are native to the Yakima, as are bull trout (a char). A major factor limiting trout recruitment is the unnaturally high flows for irrigation during the early summer just as juvenile trout are emerging from the gravel. That seems to be why trout spawning is limited mostly to tributary spawning habitat. Otherwise the river could apparently support more juvenile trout. The Yak won't be very suitable to juvenile coho either.

The coho broodstock mix is strange to say the least. I thought Klickitat were the brood of choice for east side restorations. I don't think restoring coho to the Yakima is wrong headed. I do think the Yakima Tribe's preference for integrated hatchery and "wild" stocks is. That's a policy decision since the science doesn't support it.

An integrated program permits higher harvest rates and doesn't really develop a wild run. In the case of coho it increases the likelihood of over-harvesting Yakima wild steelhead. And I'm uncertain of the ESA status of Yakima steelhead at the moment; too many to keep up with any more.

LB mentioned relicensing. There are no FERC licensed hydro dams in the Yakima basin. All the irrigation dams (Keecheless, Kachess, Cle Elum, Easton, Bumping, and Rimrock) are Bureau of Reclamation pieces of the Yakima Basin Irrigation Project. Federal dams are not licensed, since they are federal. Wapatox on the Naches was owned and operated by PacifiCorp, but has been decommissioned last I heard. None of the dams in the Yakima basin have fish passage. A smolt slide has just been added to the outlet at Cle Elum for salmon re-introduction. I haven't seen it or the design package, so I don't know if it's a POS contraption or the real thing.

Sg

kri, thanks for piping in on this. finally someone did other MF. you have some very good points. the seeded smolts will not be clipped. at i'm not certain if the YIN will clip any smoltz.

the yakima has always had a native returning strain to the system. not big enough to support a sport fishery. the YIN had thier own set seasons.

as for the steelhead in the yakima i'm clueless to it's strength. i know that guys would catch them while whitefish-ing. but no season for sportfishers in 30 years i believe. i still remember the last steelhead i saw taken. it was by a indian fishing below the toppenish spillway/dam. he was using a "spinning rod and caught it on eggs". this was, say, 80 or 81. it was a very thick bodied 15#er.


before i moved out of yakima in 01 the YIN opened the river to sport fishing. there was plenty of silvers to keep things fun. every year since the cle elum facility was put in, the YIN when certain they would have a surplus the river has been opened to sporties. this i give the YIN a thanks to give us a oppertunity to fish the surplus.

i have talked with several guys who still live in the "palm springs of washington". who while duck hunting have found silvers spawning in creeks that years before were barren of spawning salmon. so the system of seeding the yakima drainage is working.

evidently some folks prefer thier fish raised in whiteman cement troughs...

salmo thanks for your thoughts too.

How does man repeatedly justify "fixing" $hit ?

Here's one where the Yakamas are getting it more right...using in-basin fish for "restoration", and restricting the out of basin stocks to the lower river so that they get in the hatchery and don't spawn in the river or compete with the ESA-listed wild steelhead and wild spring Chinook...

http://www.cbbulletin.com/283153.aspx

Having an "opportunity to target" something does not in any way, shape, or form justify having them there...there are a lot more needs...ecological, biological, social, and cultural...than "I wanna go catch some"...

Fish on...

Todd

well rvr, when its mans mans royal selfish phfuck up!!! then yes it falls under "man to fix his $hit"!!! pull your head out.... on this, or stay off the topic!