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#449948 - 08/27/08 07:24 PM Meetings scheduled on Tokul Hatchery closing
rojoband Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 05/31/08
Posts: 257
NEWS RELEASE

Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife

August 27, 2008

Contact: Annette Hoffmann, (425) 775-1311, ext. 120 HOFFMAH@dfw.wa.gov
Heather Bartlett, (360) 902-2662 BARTLHRB@dfw.wa.gov



Public meetings scheduled to discuss proposed

operation changes at Tokul Creek Hatchery

OLYMPIA – Proposed operation changes at the Tokul Creek Hatchery designed to support naturally spawning steelhead in the Snoqualmie watershed will be discussed at two public meetings in early September.

The public meetings are scheduled for Sept. 9 at the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife’s (WDFW) Mill Creek office, 16018 Mill Creek Blvd.; and Sept. 11 at the Issaquah Salmon Hatchery, 125 West Sunset Way.

Both meetings will be held from 6 p.m.-8 p.m.

During the meetings, WDFW staff will outline proposed changes to operations at the Tokul Creek Hatchery that meet requirements under the federal Endangered Species Act (ESA), and are consistent with the 2008 Statewide Steelhead Management Plan and recommendations from the Hatchery Scientific Review Group (HSRG).

The HSRG is an independent panel of scientists established by Congress to evaluate fish hatchery operations in Puget Sound, where wild steelhead and two salmon species are listed for protection under the federal ESA.

“We are improving hatchery operations statewide to help support naturally spawning fish populations,” said Heather Bartlett, salmon and steelhead division manager for WDFW. “The proposed changes at Tokul Creek are part of that broad conservation effort aimed at restoring wild salmon and steelhead stocks while continuing to provide sustainable fishing opportunities on hatchery fish.”

Under the proposed operation changes, currently under discussion with tribal co-managers, the department could:

Reduce Tokul Creek Hatchery steelhead production by 10-20 percent and shift the remaining production – 150,000 winter steelhead – to another state hatchery in the watershed.
Eliminate about 20,000 steelhead plants annually in the Tolt River.
Eliminate about 20,000 steelhead plants annually in the Raging River.
Relocate some or all of the 30,000 trout produced each year at Tokul Creek to other nearby facilities. Those trout are produced for the lowland and high lakes fish-stocking programs.
These changes could allow for all or part of the Snoqualmie watershed to be designated as a “wild steelhead management zone” that would be managed exclusively for wild fish populations. The management zone is intended to help increase production of the river system’s wild steelhead populations by minimizing the number of competing hatchery-produced fish on the spawning grounds.

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#449952 - 08/27/08 08:15 PM Re: Meetings scheduled on Tokul Hatchery closing [Re: rojoband]
Big_Daddy
Unregistered


It will be very interesting to see where the various groups line up on this one.

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#449953 - 08/27/08 08:49 PM Re: Meetings scheduled on Tokul Hatchery closing [Re: ]
meat pie Offline
Parr

Registered: 07/23/06
Posts: 50
Loc: The River
To my understanding they don't stalk the Raging or Tolt anymore. All the summerruns that used to go up these streams are released in the main river now, and winterruns go to the hatchery. Snoqualmie has an awsome run of wild fish when it closes in March but for the rest of year, very very little. Occasionally I do catch wilds in the summer but few and far. I'm all for saving wild steelhead but when it comes down to not being able to fish in my own backyard I'll take hatcheries anyday. This is what its sounding like to me.

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#449971 - 08/27/08 10:36 PM Re: Meetings scheduled on Tokul Hatchery closing [Re: meat pie]
COOPDUCK Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 03/20/07
Posts: 151
Loc: Lake Stevens
This would be a great meeting for people that fish not only Tokul, but enjoy fishing for hatchery fish at any of the popular terminal fisheries, or even just brats during the winter or summer anywhere. Whether you agree or not with the "wild steelhead management zones", this meeting is a sign of things to come for many of your favorite hatchery fisheries.
_________________________
"If you cut your lip or had a tooth removed you will bleed and it will probably hurt but unless the dentist crushes your head with a rock you will live...cheers"
summerrun

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#450076 - 08/28/08 10:53 AM Re: Meetings scheduled on Tokul Hatchery closing [Re: COOPDUCK]
Beezer Offline
Spawner

Registered: 06/09/99
Posts: 838
Loc: Monroe WA
As far as the winter steelhead go, it is my understanding that the hatchery brats from Tokul Creek are Chambers Creek stock , which means this program is a "segragated" program. I'm all for eliminating hatchery winter steelhead plants in the Raging and Tolt thereby making those two systems "wild steelhead management zones". Then imprint the remaining winter brats to Tokul Creek making it a terminal fishing area similar to Reiter. The Chambers Creek stock spawn so early there should be minimal interaction with the later spawning Snoqualmie wild winter stock.

Beezer


Edited by Beezer (08/28/08 10:55 AM)

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#450082 - 08/28/08 12:09 PM Re: Meetings scheduled on Tokul Hatchery closing [Re: Beezer]
Salmo g. Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 13861
Something smells fishy.

If, as Heather says, the proposed action is to improve hatchery operations to help wild populations, then closing Tokul is suspect. The wild winter steelhead return in late February and March, spawning in April and May. The hatchery winter steelhead return in December and January, and the hatchery uses brood that spawns by January 31 I read. Wild summer runs still spawn in the Tolt, and hatchery summer runs are released from the hatchery. The hatchery summer runs could stray into the Tolt and spawn. However, the hatchery summer run program on the NF Stillaguamish has operated for 40 years, and all indications are that the hatchery fish do NOT spawn in Deer Creek, where an endemic native population continues to spawn in relative isolation.

With that degree of segregation it's hard for me to see how the wild Snoqualmie steelhead runs will benefit from closing Tokul Creek hatchery.

If the issue were economics, I think the Snoqualmie gets one of the better hatchery smolt to adult return rates among Puget Sound streams. Therefore it would make more economic sense to close either the Skagit or Puyallup hatchery steelhead programs, where very large numbers of smolts are reared and released, yet the smolt to adult return rates are extremely poor.

WDFW either needs to make a better reasoned case for the proposed action, or WDFW definitely needs public input to make a better informed decision. I hope some of you are local enough to attend the public meetings.

Sg

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#450088 - 08/28/08 12:37 PM Re: Meetings scheduled on Tokul Hatchery closing [Re: Salmo g.]
Todd Offline
Dick Nipples

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 27840
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
I don't see where they are considering closing it...looks like they're ending outplanting, which should have ended years ago, and cutting production a bit, and sending those fish that are cut over to another facility "in the watershed", which means either Reiter or the Wallace.

While I don't see how reducing the plants at Tokul proper will do anything helpful for the wild steelhead because the run timing is so different for those fish and the hatchery drones, at least it looks like killing the whole hatchery program is not on the table.

I think I'd recommend a compromise position...end the outplanting at the Raging and Tolt Rivers, but either keep production steady at the hatchery proper, or even transfer the numbers from the Raging and Tolt over to the hatchery releases.

Fish on...

Todd
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#450091 - 08/28/08 12:46 PM Re: Meetings scheduled on Tokul Hatchery closing [Re: Todd]
IrishRogue Offline
Poon it! Poon it! Poon it!

Registered: 08/08/06
Posts: 1714
Loc: Yarrow Point
The language in the first story is confusing... It says they want to reduce Tokul Creek by 10-20 percent, and shift the remaining production to another hatchery in the watershed.

"shift the remaining production" is the confusing part. In fact I'd argue as it's written it sounds like a closure. I searched briefly for the total production #'s at Tokul and couldn't find them, but we'll know if we can find that--because their clarification of 150,000 winterruns is likely 10-20% of their production, which means in fact it's just terrible writing.
_________________________
The charm of fishing is that it is the pursuit of what is elusive but attainable, a perpetual series of occasions for hope. -John Buchan

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#450092 - 08/28/08 12:50 PM Re: Meetings scheduled on Tokul Hatchery closing [Re: IrishRogue]
Todd Offline
Dick Nipples

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 27840
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
I think it's just bad writing...if they were going to end 15% of the planting and shift the other 85% to another facility, they probably wouldn't say "reduce Tokul Creek plants" by 15%, since they'd really be reducing Tokul Creek plants by 100%, and transferring 85% of them to another facility.

Either way, I can't see much of a reason to reduce the plants there at all, at least not to the benefit of wild steelhead.

Fish on...

Todd
_________________________


Team Flying Super Ditch Pickle


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#450098 - 08/28/08 01:06 PM Re: Meetings scheduled on Tokul Hatchery closing [Re: Todd]
rojoband Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 05/31/08
Posts: 257
Originally Posted By: Todd
I think it's just bad writing...if they were going to end 15% of the planting and shift the other 85% to another facility, they probably wouldn't say "reduce Tokul Creek plants" by 15%, since they'd really be reducing Tokul Creek plants by 100%, and transferring 85% of them to another facility.

Either way, I can't see much of a reason to reduce the plants there at all, at least not to the benefit of wild steelhead.

Fish on...

Todd


see this link: http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsi...41396&rfi=6

Reasons for closure: The state is looking at closing the facility for financial and environmental concerns, said Doug Hatfield, who oversees hatchery operations from Issaquah to Darrington. "There's a substantial shortfall of funds in the Wildlife budget, which fully funds Tokul Creek," Hatfield said, adding that some hatcheries in southwest Washington might also shut down. "Conservation considerations" also come into play, with Puget Sound steelheads recently being listed as a "threatened" species, Hatfield said. "Part of the effort of the agency is to come up with plans to ensure the health of stocks going forward, and one step is to establish wildlife fish management zones."

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#450101 - 08/28/08 01:48 PM Re: Meetings scheduled on Tokul Hatchery closing [Re: rojoband]
Todd Offline
Dick Nipples

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 27840
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
Yeah, I read that a few times over the past few weeks...but that's not what the press release you posted above says.

Fish on...

Todd
_________________________


Team Flying Super Ditch Pickle


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#450109 - 08/28/08 02:24 PM Re: Meetings scheduled on Tokul Hatchery closing [Re: Todd]
Smalma Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/25/01
Posts: 2834
Loc: Marysville
Irishrogue -
You can find the production levels for various hatcheries at -

http://wdfw.wa.gov/hat/hgmp/

Click on Puget Sound; go to steelhead and scroll down to Tokul Creek. There I found the production goal is/was 205,000 smolts.

Todd -
It is my understanding (confimred with a discussion with regional staff) that the proposal discussed in the news release calls for the ending of steelhead production at Tokul Creek with the reduced production being shifted to another state facility. That would have to be the Wallace hatchery. That production would then be released in the Skykomish portion of the basin. This would allow the establishment of the Snoqualmie as wild steelhead "gene bank" or what the HSRG referred to as wild steelhead management zone - not planted with hatchery steelhead.

Also heard that less drastic actions were (and still are being?) discussed.

So far it has been difficult to get a clear understanding (and the news release did not help much) what is being proposed. Hopefully things will be clarified at the meetings.

Tight lines
Curt

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#450114 - 08/28/08 02:48 PM Re: Meetings scheduled on Tokul Hatchery closing [Re: Smalma]
Todd Offline
Dick Nipples

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 27840
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
Curt, that's the same thing I've been hearing...but like I said, the Press Release is so poorly written that it's hard to figure out what the hell they're talking about.

It's titled "change in operations", and is written like they are talking about doing just that...changing operations...not closing it. It's the first I've heard about it in those terms, as all I've been hearing about is closing it down.

Fish on...

Todd
_________________________


Team Flying Super Ditch Pickle


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#450948 - 09/02/08 01:34 PM Re: Meetings scheduled on Tokul Hatchery closing [Re: Smalma]
rojoband Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 05/31/08
Posts: 257
Originally Posted By: Smalma
Irishrogue -
You can find the production levels for various hatcheries at -

http://wdfw.wa.gov/hat/hgmp/

Click on Puget Sound; go to steelhead and scroll down to Tokul Creek. There I found the production goal is/was 205,000 smolts.

Todd -
It is my understanding (confimred with a discussion with regional staff) that the proposal discussed in the news release calls for the ending of steelhead production at Tokul Creek with the reduced production being shifted to another state facility. That would have to be the Wallace hatchery. That production would then be released in the Skykomish portion of the basin. This would allow the establishment of the Snoqualmie as wild steelhead "gene bank" or what the HSRG referred to as wild steelhead management zone - not planted with hatchery steelhead.

Also heard that less drastic actions were (and still are being?) discussed.

So far it has been difficult to get a clear understanding (and the news release did not help much) what is being proposed. Hopefully things will be clarified at the meetings.

Tight lines
Curt


Bringing this back to the top, but as I think about it….how does moving production from one facility not effect another wild stock somewhere else? Isn’t that just the WDFW “spin cycle” at work again. I bet this is like the Elochoman closure and they just won’t admit that they don’t have money to maintain the facility which they have let fall apart to make sure the big wigs in Oly get their annual salaries!

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#451144 - 09/03/08 10:42 AM Re: Meetings scheduled on Tokul Hatchery closing [Re: rojoband]
Phoenix77 Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/04/06
Posts: 4025
Loc: Kent, WA
Hatchery meetings set


Valley residents have a chance to comment on proposed changes at the Tokul Creek Hatchery in two upcoming meetings.
The meetings are 6 to 8 p.m., Saturday, Sept. 9 at the State Fish and Wildlife Mill Creek Office, 16018 Mill Creek Blvd.; and 6 to 8 p.m., Tuesday, Sept. 11 at the Issaquah Salmon Hatchery, 125 West Sunset Way.
The Washington Fish and Wildlife Department is considering reducing Tokul Creek Hatchery steelhead production by up to 20 percent, and shifting the remaining production to another hatchery.



©Snoqualmie Valley Record 2008
http://www.valleyrecord.com/site/news.cf...41396&rfi=6
_________________________
I fish, ergo, I am.

If you must burn our flag, Please! wrap yourself in it.
Puget Sound Anglers, So. King Co.
CCA SeaTac Chapter

I love my country but fear my government

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#451172 - 09/03/08 12:29 PM Re: Meetings scheduled on Tokul Hatchery closing [Re: Phoenix77]
Sky-Guy Offline
The Tide changed

Registered: 08/31/00
Posts: 7084
Loc: Everett
Those meeting days are incorrect. The 9th is Tuesday and the 11th is Thursday.
_________________________
You know something bad is going to happen when you hear..."Hey, hold my beer and watch this"

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#451476 - 09/04/08 01:40 PM Re: Meetings scheduled on Tokul Hatchery closing [Re: Sky-Guy]
rojoband Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 05/31/08
Posts: 257
Originally Posted By: Sky-Guy
Those meeting days are incorrect. The 9th is Tuesday and the 11th is Thursday.


Good pick up here Sky-Guy...and for those of you who want to see another article on this topic:
http://www.heraldnet.com/article/2008090...almie.steelhead

Just came out today here's the read if the link doesn't work:
Published: Thursday, September 4, 2008

The end of Snoqualmie steelhead?
By Wayne Kruse,
Herald Writer

Lose the Tokul Creek Hatchery and lose recreational steelhead fishing on the Snoqualmie River system. It could be as simple as that.

Or not, but it sure feels that way to this longtime observer of state fishery management and bureau-speak.

The Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife is soliciting public participation in two meetings this month to discuss "proposed operation changes at the Tokul Creek Hatchery." After a long talk with the agency's Region 4 (Mill Creek) fish program manager, Annette Hoffmann, I was left with no real reason to believe the proposal does not mean the end of sport steelheading on the Snoqualmie.

Under the proposed plan, still being discussed with the tribes, the department could reduce the hatchery's steelhead production by 10 to 20 percent and shift the remaining production -- 150,000 winter fish -- to another state hatchery in the watershed; eliminate about 20,000 steelhead plants annually in the Tolt; and/or eliminate about 20,000 steelhead plants annually in the Raging.

The proposed changes, according to the state, are to meet requirements under the Endangered Species Act, and are consistent with the 2008 Statewide Steelhead Management Plan to support naturally spawning fish populations. The proposal is also consistent with the 2008 Statewide Steelhead Management Plan and recommendations from the Hatchery Scientific Review Group.

That's some pretty heavy artillery. Is it reasonable to believe the "proposed operational Changes at the Tokul Creek Hatchery" are not already set in concrete?

I don't know.

Even more disturbing is the agency's statement that "these changes could allow for all or part of the Snoqualmie watershed to be designated a 'wild steelhead management zone' that would be managed exclusively for wild fish. The zone is (not "would be") intended to help increase production of the river system's wild steelhead populations by minimizing the number of competing hatchery fish on the spawning grounds.'"

If wild steelhead management on the Snoqualmie system is already a done deal -- and that's just a possibility at this point, granted -- then any recreational fishing would be on "surplus" wild-stock fish, somewhere years down the line. If ever.

Hoffmann insisted the plan for the Snoqualmie is still fluid, still to be decided. She said there could still be fishing for hatchery steelhead on various parts of the system, while reserving other portions -- maybe the Tolt and Raging tributaries -- as a wild-fish gene bank.

But she also mentioned that one possible reason to keep the Tokul Creek facility operational, at least for a while, was "to collect returning brood stock in order to remove them from the system."

So after all those dirty old hatchery steelhead have been removed from the system, would the hatchery be kept open? Closed? Switched to other functions?

Hoffmann said that was still to be decided.

The agency's chief of salmon and steelhead management, Heather Bartlett in Olympia, said "We are improving hatchery operations statewide to help support naturally spawning fish populations. The proposed changes at Tokul Creek are part of that broad conservation effort aimed at restoring wild salmon and steelhead stocks while continuing to provide sustainable fishing opportunities on hatchery fish."

No one can be against wild steelhead enhancement. That's a given. But is Bartlett speaking straight when she says "continuing to provide sustainable fishing opportunities on hatchery fish"?

Or is the agency, again, consigning easy-to-manipulate recreational fishermen to the far end of the stick?

Close Tokul Creek and lose steelhead fishing on the Snoqualmie system? I don't know, but I sure don't like the sound of this one.

The two public meetings are scheduled for Sept. 9 at the Mill Creek office, 16018 Mill Creek Boulevard, 425-775-1311; and Sept. 11 at the Issaquah Salmon Hatchery, 125 West Sunset Way in Issaquah. Both meetings will run 6-8 p.m.

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#451509 - 09/04/08 05:05 PM Re: Meetings scheduled on Tokul Hatchery closing [Re: rojoband]
Bruce(Coho@TheRefuge) Offline
Juvenille at Sea

Registered: 03/07/99
Posts: 232
Loc: Bothell, WA, USA
I duckhunt also and this state is using this same type issue to decrease waterfowlers access and cut costs.

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