Back in Mid July I lost 3 expensive pots along Ruston Way in Tacoma. They were well weighted in 100 ft of water with 150ft of line and two bed/white buoys on each one. After a lot of cursing about pot thieves I bought 3 new pots.

Wednesday my dad put four pots in to fish. Same scenario as before. Three of the four were missing. I went out to look for him (he is 79) and I couldn't find them either. As I was searching for the pots a boat that was anchored nearby told me that the Tacoma Police Department had been out earlier pulling pots and that they took over a dozen pots.

I was able to find the patrol boat and talked with one of the four officers on board. He said that the pots were confiscated because they were improperly labeled. They had names, city and state on them but lacked a complete street address. So they took them and sent them to the property room of the Peirce County Sherriff as lost property to be auctioned off after 60 days if unclaimed. So beware, if you are crabbing in Tacoma make sure you have complete addresses on your pots. If you have lost pots you might want to contact the Tacoma City Police

Now it really gets interesting. I must admit I was a little pissed that the City of Tacoma is using a $200k boat and four officers to look for Crab Pots that are improperly labeled. Hard to believe they don't have something better to do.

To make a long story short I ended up witnessing a verbal altercation that took place on my cell phone between the property manager for Pierce County and the Officer that confiscated the pots.
Her point to the officer was that the County was storing the pots as a favor to the city and that the officer needed to do a better job filling out paperwork and following proper procedures and that if the Tacoma City Police couldn't do that, then the County would stop storing property for the City.

The officer stated that if the county was going to be so uptight about paperwork that the patrol officers were going to start throwing confiscated pots in the dumpster instead of making allowances for their return

I got a major run around. I have been to four different locations talked with a half a dozen people and I still am not sure how I am going to get my pots back. I will try again today.

I was wrong. My pots were not labeled according to the reg, but this is rediculous.

It's my understanding the a homeland security grant paid for the Vigilance.
I'll bet your feeling quite secure about now.
I hope you get your traps back!

Bet they enjoyed the crab though....

You can thank Bush and his misguided, answer to 911, the inept Home Land Security Department..what a joke, just like bush.

This is a couple of a-holes that should find something more useful to do with their time. What a joke. Our hard earned tax ollars put to good use again. What they should really be doing is hiding behind the 30mph to 25mph change sign and giving tickets for 31. Then they would be protecting the public.

Perhaps you don't like what they are doing with your pots but you can bet it wasn't the patrol officer's idea to be on crab pot patrol. I have met the guys who work on that boat and I can tell you that they are good guys and avid fishermen. A good rule of thumb, whether you are right or wrong is to treat them with the same courtesy that you would expect to be treated with.
Next point,
Label your gear properly and you'll only have thieves to deal with.
Beeeeeeeeeee

I thought that was out of the Police Departments jursidiction, and that was what F&W was paid to do?

you might try calling John Walker, attorney for Tacoma Police. i dont have a direct number, but call the city and they can put you in touch.

you may also want to put a claim in with Risk Management of the city.

wonder what they did with the crab ?

The boat cops probably have to log so many man hours on the boat to show the feds to justify the grant from Homeland Security. Show results of water patrols or give the money back deal, which is typical of fed grants. This the same as the so-called war on drugs which is why people get popped for having a single joint in their pocket, for example.
When I worked for the Wash. Game Dept. many years ago, it almost cost more to track the hours worked on the project the grant was for than the amount of work on the project on the ground. The bios really got frustrated at times with the record keeping when they could be in the field doing something wothwhile for the resource.
If the feds don't get the numbers they want, then the grant may have to be repaid. Killerbeee is probably correct and the cops were probably embarrassed to being doing what they were doing.

You got your pots confiscated for not having th complete address on it.

They get there ass chewed out for not having their paperwork filled out right and they get pissy about it........go figure.

Update. The Property room won't release them without the officers OK and the officer is on vacation until after the Holiday. Dozens of manhours wasted.

Too bad their badges weren't confiscated.

Tie a 400 lb. weight to the end of a crab pot bouy and video them trying to pull it up!

These guys harrass everyone they can out there with their vessel inspections, fishing equipment checks, running around wasting gas. The tribal pots can sit out there for weeks unattended, but you have a minor label violation on a sport pot and they confiscate the pot. Asking where the crab went is a good question. If they wanted to do this properly they would check people when they are pulling their pots and issue a citation - if it is warranted. By confiscating the pots when nobody is around, who's going to notice if the crab slip into a cooler?

WDFW should never have granted them jurisdiction over fish and game violations. Vessel inspections should be done by the coast guard. Tacoma police should be on the streets and inside the city limits doing their job. Total waste of money in the name of homeland security. What a joke.

We need them on stolen kicker patrol ;-)

Hummm what a novel concept, perhaps the TPD needs a new job description.

You have your head up your butt if you think a president gets involved how the money is spent. Probably a congressman wanted s o m e cash for his district and it was divided up in the bill. Like Homeland security doesnt have any pork in it. The chairman of Appropriations is often too powerful for the good of the country. Thats how guys like Ted Stevens get bridges slid into the spending. I dont care which party is running the show. Where have we been bombed in North America since 9-11? Thanks to some sharp lady in Northern Washington, LAX is in one piece. It will be way too long before the rest of the cases are declassified.

WDFW didnt grant them jurisdiction. Your WASHINGTON STATE LEGISLATURE did!!

LB, you need to learn how to read, I didn't say the President had anything to do with how the money was spent, you must have your head in the same place as he does.....

Its nice to know, that there are not a bunch of crab pot thiefs down in that area.

However the actions of some possibly overzelous police officers pisses me off. Its bad enought that while out attempting to relaax and possibly catch a salmon or crab. You have to contend with the young kids and their 50 cal machine guns from the coast guard. Then you have the State fish cops.

Apparently here in Kitsap County the sheriffs department has got in on the action. A friend of mine recently recieved a ticket because the numbers on boat wern't "tall enough". The numbers were there, the person who issued the ticket said "Its only a 81.00 fine"


Anyway, They (the cities, counties) have realized that the sound is a potential source of revenue. So before you go boating consult the regs and makes sure you have covered your bases.

Update. Got a call from the officer this am. The only way he will release my pots is if I accept a ticket for poaching. Otherwise I have to wait until they go up at auction and buy them back.

I wasn't the one fishing with them.

Update. Got a call from the officer this am. The only way he will release my pots is if I accept a ticket for poaching. Otherwise I have to wait until they go up at auction and buy them back.

I wasn't the one fishing with them.




It is time for you to make several phone calls to the mayors office and all of the city council menbers office about this Bs.Be the thorn in their side. I would recommend that they attach a waterproof warning notice to the pots before confiscating them. Also what a crock of bs A ticket for poaching. I would bet if you went before a judge the ticket would be dissmissed.

You should check out Chip Goodhue's experience with Bainbridge Marine Patrol, they actually stalked him.

Matt

Tell Jesse Jones from King 5 news. He will get them back for you and you get to be on TV and tell your story.

So how does he justify the poaching ticket?

Were the pots labeled? You said there was incomplete address information.


It seems like quite a leap from, incomplete address. To POACHING.

and when is the auction

Your Dad should buy you new pots.

Seems pretty straight forward to me.

Honestly, I'm failing to see what's wrong here, or how it's unjust in any ways.

You loaned your gear out to your Dad who basically was "poaching", according to the regulations. You are now paying the consequences.

I think.

There is no definition of "poaching" in the WDFW regulations. Is this a RCW? If so, which one is it and what does it state?

Your father was in violation of the regulations, but not what I personally would consider to be "poaching". Poaching (to me) involves illegally harvesting game either out of season, or above and beyond limits.

Your father should just be issued a citation. Once the citation is paid, he should get the gear back.

If it were me, I'd look up the RCW on all of that:

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?Cite=77

Take the poaching ticket, then fight it in court so the judge can read the cops the riot act for being so f'n stupid about this. They can't write you a ticket (that will hold up in court) for what your old man was up to any more than they can charge you for murder if you loan someone your rifle and they shoot somebody with it.

Parker, does fishing with a barbed hook in a barbless area make you a poacher? Then how the f*ck does crabbing without proper labels on the floats constitute poaching ?

Whose name was labeled on the buoy? Your name or your father's name? We're you with him while using/setting/checking the pots? Sounds like it was your father using/setting/checking the pots. From page 141 of the regs:

"It is ILLEGAL to pull unattended shellfish gear with a buoy that does not have your name on it, and only one name and address may appear on each buoy. Any angler may assist the person whose name is on the buoy while he or she is pulling the pot."


If your father was the only person setting/pulling/checking the pots, this language in the regs doesn't seem like it will help you, if you want to challenge the poaching ticket.

Easy there, Chief.

If you'd go back and re-read what I said, I basically said "WTF?"

I could not find anywhere in the RCW what "poaching" means, or what one has to do to be a "poacher". I'd call BS on that.

I like your idea of taking the officer up on the citation, and take it to court. It would never hold up, and the judge would probably chew on some state ass. They hate shiat like this.

Your quote.

It looks unbelievably unjust to me.

But I've been known to go off half-cocked on occasion.

No, seriously.

In reference to having the pots taken away.

Not in reference to being labeled as a poacher, threatened to be cited as a poacher to get the gear back, etc. That's just silly talk and I'd challenge them on it.

I recieved a game violation that was absolutely pathetic a few years back (long story, posted it before). It was such a "gray area" thing that the gamie said he'd have to think about it for a while to decide what to do. Two weeks later he calls and had decided to mail me a ticket. Long story short, the judge dismissed it and gave a verbal thrashing to the prosecutor right there in court. I suspect that the sht rolled downhill and he got an earful from the prosecutor. (BTW, the prosecutor was trying to plea me out before court was in session. He offered to reduce to $20, and make it look generic like a traffic violation. I refused. He was shocked, but I told him I was in the right and wanted to tell my story.

I'd suggest calling the officer and telling him to give you the ticket but that you fully intend to take it to court and may request his attendance. This way you get the pots back, and at worst should get a reduced fine, if its not dismissed altogether.

Why is it that you throw out the hate of the liberal left. Ignor the pres. his time is almost done. and fish on

Father of Three,
How many pots are you allowed to set? If your father set 4 pots like you said, then it would be poaching. It looks like he was planning on harvesting crab from all 4 pots?
What is the deal with that? Please clarify this so we get a better understanding. It's kind of like fishing with 4 poles don't ya think? Jack

Everybody,

Please re read the original post so the story remains the same. You guys are talking about things that are not part of the original post. They were his fathers pots not his. He just went and looked for them. Amazing how facts get changed by people who fail to read the whole post.

Father of Three,
Here are the rules as written in WDFW Reg book.........
Crab: Two units of crab gear per person, and no limit on the number of units of crab gear per boat.
GENERAL GEAR RULES:
Every shellfish pot, ring net, or star trap left unattended in Washington waters must have its own buoy line and a separate buoy that is permanently
and legibly marked with the operator’s first name, last name, and permanent address (telephone number is voluntary). It is ILLEGAL to pull
unattended shellfish gear with a buoy that does not have your name on it, and only one name and address may appear on each buoy.
I'm glad that I looked it up, I learn something new everyday. Jack

JoJo,
I did look at the original post closely and that is why I questioned Father of Three about how many pots were put out.
He first said that the pots were his fathers. At the end of the paragraph he says that he screwed up by not labeling his pots correctly.
If they are Father of Three's pots, then his father is violating the laws by fishing with pots that are not his. If they are his fathers, then the father is violating the laws by fishing with too many pots. Both intances would be illegal harvesting which I guess would be another word for poaching?
Who's pots are they? Jack

Either way, it seems like a bit of an overreaction by the coppers...but that being said, it all could have been avoided by properly labeling the bouys, as required by state regulations.

Fish on...

Todd

Who's on third?

"LB, you need to learn how to read, I didn't say the President had anything to do with how the money was spent, you must have your head in the same place as he does....."

????

WTF do you do with crab caught in Tacoma. Isn't that a superfund site with all sorts of heavy metals , PCB's and cancer causing contamination?

I own the pots. I actually own six of them. My dad and his girlfriend were using them. He has his own bouys. All four bouys were labeled with names city and state. They did not have an address on them. Becuase of that they are in violation. I don't dispute that. I went out to help him find the pots after he couldn't find them. What bothers me is.

1) Being called a poacher. I have fished and hunted Wa for 40 years. I have never had a violation of any kind nor has my dad who has fished for 70+years. The pots were legal, the season was open, only legal crabs were retained, cathes are always recorded and with the exception of the address the bouys were legal in terms of size and color.

2) They shouldn't be using this resource ( $400k boat and four officers) for enforce this type of violation.

3) If they are going to pull pots they should make an attempt to let people know. How about attaching a waterproof sticker with a warning.

4) They should have some kind of clue as how to return pots to people who would like them back.

Duct tape works great for labeling pots, plus a sharpie.

BDS (Bush Derangement Syndrome) is best treated with a mild sedative. Do not take with alcohol, it only exacerbates the condition. Or, you could try dipping a line for a little tranquility.
Should we end up with a Cheny replacement in the form of a true sportsman (woman), I will say a prayer for you as you are carried off to the asylum. There will be no treatment for PDS. It's fatal.

*Poaching, the theft or illegal killing of animals or plants, or sometimes artifacts. A poacher is someone who engages in poaching.

If you harvest a fish using that barbed hook, the answer is yes

It would seem the police were in violation as they pulled pots that didn't have their names on them. (ha-Ha) If the regs were taken literally, you could set whoevers pots you wanted, you just have to have the owners at the pot when pulled. I wonder if they actually have the authority to salvage pots when ever they see fit. There doesn't seem to me to be any way for them to have had probable cause to pull the pots, how could they know who was setting the pots? My conspiracy suspicious nature makes me wonder who put them up to this? The TV channel may well be interested in the story.
And P.S. The RCWs I found on this state that the proceeds from confiscated gear sales is required to be turned over to the general fund for transfer to the WDFW. I wonder where the money goes from those police auctions?

Got the pots back today with help from the WDFW. THE WDFW was excellent. I must confess my dad didn't have the pots labeled very well. I will help him do a better job in the future. In his defense he is 78 has had two open heart surgeries, six by-passes and a stroke this spring. He started fishing at Pt Defiance in the late 30's using a row boat.

glad you got 'em back

Good news on getting them all back...

Fish on...

Todd

How is it that the WDFW helped you out? Jack

what an interesting thread...

a guy on my dock got a ticket while crabbing this year. I thought it was kind of funny that he was upset about it (not marking the crab immidiately after retained), -doesnt EVERYONE know better by now?????- but this whole thing is a little different. TPD and other police departments should leave the fish and game citations and confiscations to the WDFW.



glad to hear you got the pots back, what a cluster...

My dad is getting older too. I completely understand how they mess things up a little. I have to teach him how to turn the fishfinder on at the beginning of every season.

I give props to your dad for still getting out there too!