After a fair bit of complaining my wife has finally agreed to give her blessing on me buying a new (or used) boat. I mostly like to fish in the sound though I will occassionaly chase trout or perch in freshwater should things in the sound be slow or I'm taking the kids out. I've decided that I want to go welded aluminum with an outboard and have been looking at all the boats you might expect including Alumaweld, Hewescraft, Duckworth, Smokercraft, North River, etc.

Like most people these days I don't have tons of money to spend and am therefore looking at boats in the 17' - 18' range. Here's my question...

Would a 17' or 18' boat be large enough for two guys to safely make a run say from somewhere like Mukilteo to Point no Point in reasonable (not perfect but not stormy) conditions? Or would I really need to step up to a 20' or large to make runs like that?

Thanks in advance,

Aaron

I think absolutely yes, the key is your "reasonable" qualification, of course. No boat would be a substitute for good judgement.

I run my 16' Arima out from Edmonds to PnP and beyond without any trouble, and I don't consider myself a big risk taker on the water. The key is getting the RIGHT boat...

As a fishing (trolling/mooching/jigging) boat, I don't think you can beat an Arima in the price range. Very stable/safe, very dry in the chop. Not the smoothest ride, but the stability (e.g, walk two guys to the stern corner and see how you feel) more than makes up for that. The gunnels are also nice and tall, so bringing the kids along is safer than many boat makes. Plus being 16 or 17' makes them very easy to tow with a normal car (e.g. SUV) as opposed to a heavy duty truck.

I've seen plenty of good craigslist deals on Arimas of late, some nice ones in the $8K range. Keep your eyes peeled.

If not Arima, maybe a C-Dory? Tiderunner?

17 - 18 is fine. If your planning to run only sound and lakes why spend the big $$ on aluminum? If your budget limited you can get a pretty dang nice FG boat for a reasonable amount that will more than fit your needs. Just my .02

There is a 17.5 fishrite aluminum for sale in the classifieds on this board. 11,500.00 . It is in great shape and has been meticulously cared for. I have fished from it several times. Good Boat for the money and perfect for Sound, Lakes, and or the Coloumbia.-TBJ

You'll be fine in a 17-18 ft boat. I have a 17ft with a 6 degree bottom. I contemplated getting a bigger boat but on top of more $$$, the side height and other measurements on my boat were virtually the same on boats in the 19-20ft range I was looking at so it didn't make sense. Just make sure you're checking the marine forecasts. When it's too crappy for the salt and you still want to go out, hit freshwater instead.

As mentioned, you have to watch the weather no matter what length you get.

My personal feeling is that 18' is a minimum for the saltwater trips. The wind wave frequency in the Straits can make for wet ride with boats in the 16'-17' range. An 18' (or longer) seems to ride a lot drier and will be more stable as a fishing platform.

Like was mentioned,with the right boat,17' is fine for the Sound.

I ran from Everett to PnP more than once in my 17' Alumaweld Super Vee.

I've even ran from Kingston to PnP in my 15' Smokercraft.

I'd say a 20' foot...just for the extra space & stability. On a 16 footer you wont comfortably have room for more than one other person.
I have an 18' foot, and in 3'-4' foot wind waves I get very wet (center console) and pushed around quite a bit.
I agree with Bushbear's post. Up in the marine area you mentioned it can go from 'reasonable' to FUBAR instantly.

Make sure it's a V-Hull not a Tri-hull or flat bottom, etc.

Look at it this way: Look for a solid Salt Water boat just small enough you can put it out on a lake, rather than a lake boat just big enough to go out on the salt.

Hey Aaron,

Your last boat would have been fine for those trips on most days. I used to take my 16' open Gregor out past PNP to Bush or Double Bluff from Mukilteo and Shilshole all the time. Unless it really gets snotty you would be fine in a 16 foot boat.

From what I know about you, you take trips to Eastern Washington lakes a couple times a year and want to fish the salt locally more than out at Seiku. I would look at a used but not abused 16-19 foot fiberglass boat like the Arima or in the same class as the Arima. Best bang for your buck in the 8k to 15k price range.


Go Flick Skippy in the back of the ear for me..

My cousin goes out in his 14ft off Pnp, does fine...16' or up is perfect size for the sound...I agree used Arima is a best bet for quality and money for all purpose Sound fishing...

Thanks for the quick replies guys. It sounds like general consensus is that I would be OK with a 17' or 18' boat assuming sound judgement and that I should consider FG with Arima being one of the top contenders. When I get done here I will go dig around craigslist to see what I can find.

A couple of specific responses...
TBJ - Yeah, that fishrite looks nice. I sent the owner e-mail last night via craigslist but haven't heard back yet. Hopefully I can get in touch with him and go take a look in person.

Sky - The little 12' Smokercraft Alaskan and I had some good salt adventures together. I never took it as far as PNP but as you said, I probably would have made it on a nice day. You nailed it when you described where I would likely be fishing mostly - local salt, seiku once or twice a year, same for Eastern Washington lakes. As for Skipper, I will definately give him a good flick in the ear for you.

Later guys,

Aaron

In terms of FG, what would you guys think of something like this Whaler?

http://seattle.craigslist.org/sno/boa/816903159.html

Looks more like a ski boat to me than a fishing boat but maybe it could be outfitted right?

All the Arima's I've been seeing on craigslist have a cuddy. I always envisioned an open bow in whatever boat I end up with but maybe the cuddy would be fine?

Aaron

The cuddy on the Arimas serves two important purproses....

1. Lockable storage. Think downriggers, fenders, spare parts, anchor, etc, etc, etc.

2. Keeps any wave breaking over your bow outside of the "people" part of the boat. Seems like a big safety winner for me, especially in smaller boats.

I think the open bow could be better if you do lots of mooching or casting/flyfishing.

I spent a weekend up at Nootka Sound with a guy that had a 17 or 18 foot North River, with a 90 HP suzuki engine. I was actually impressed with that boat a lot. He followed us out, got in early and it was just a little champ of a boat. Like stated above, keep safety in mind and any of the above mentioned brands will serve your purpose.

that little north river really flew too. very impressed.

Irish - Good points on the cuddy. Hadn't thought about those benefits.

Fish - From what I've seen, the North Rivers (particularly the Seahawk) look really nice but they seem to be a bit higher priced than most of the boats I'm looking at.

After a bit of digging on craig's list, geez there are a lot of boats out there. Really tough with all the choices. Here's the short list...

http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dhff7jnt_20cmtctxs8

Aaron -
You did not say what you are going to use to tow the boat . Something to consider is whether you will net to upgrade your vehicle to comfortably tow a "glass" boat.

Also for your freshwater use what sort of launches do you normally use? Might dictate the size/wieght of your rig.

As always getting a boat is full of compromises.

I fish regularly with a buddy that has a 17 foot arima - a great boat that handles water well and would fit the bill for your salt water fishing. I have a 16 foot Alaskan Lund that I really like - works fine for the Sound/Willapa bay as well as the San Juans and Straits on good days. But not the boat for bigger water - for example bouy 10. But it works great for putting in on lakes - If I can get the tires into 6 inches of water and I can easily launch and load by myself. Have no problems putting it on the beach; don't need a dock, etc.

With the Arima a full sized truck is needed as a tow rig while I get by with a smaller vehicle (a ranger). My lund's 4 cycle is half the size of the one on the Arima. I also put a salt water model 80 # thrust bow mounted electric on the lund which is great for holding position for jigging, sliding along rips while throwing bugs for coho,etc while it freshwater it works well for bass and perch fishing and is the really sweet for the kokanee fishing I do (the remote auto-pilot is really handy).

As I said buying a boat is all about compromises. The ideal boat is really 3 boats. Suggest you make a list of what you would like, your must haves, etc and try to balance that with your budget (should be some deals with the current economy). If you are looking new at times there are some good package deals at the winter outdoor/boat shows. The more homework you do the more likely you will be happy with your choice.

Good luck
Curt

Smala - Good point about the tow vehicle. I have a 2004 Dodge Ram 3500 Diesel that should handle the things I'm looking at.

Wonder if the wife would go for three boats. Seriously though, you're right about the compromises. Making the list of requirements is a good idea. I'll do that.

Aaron

AH-imo I would spend as much or more time considering the power. Newer 4 stroke is the only way to go but if you have to go 2 stroke I would stay away from the Merc's and focus on Yamaha...good luck, boat hunting is fun but so is boat selling...cheers

Oh, thought about one more detail worth considering -- especially if you're looking at the Whaler -- weather. Specifically rain and/or cold.

The center console/open bow boats are absoultely amazing on nice days, there's no question. But on a rainy/cold day, the closed bow + canvas on a cuddy is a big advantage when you're moving around, or even just trolling.

Ditto what Summerun said about motors -- IMHO a Yamaha or Honda 4-stroke is what you want. For both the main and kicker. This gets you out of mix-in oil, better fuel economy and a completely unified fuel system (e.g. a single big tank).

The points here about compromise are of course correct -- good luck in your search!

Tell us how much you are thinking of spending.

I have a whaler and love it and my 4 stroke. I've been considering a dodger/canvas etc. Thing is the wife and kids want to get out more often than i expect so I wish I would have gone with a 18-20' for the room.

The 17 is easy to launch and control by myself, cheap on gas, easy to tow, and fits in the garage with the door closed!

Summer and Irish - Good points on the benefit of 4-stroke and open vs. covered. On the latter, I think I like the idea of having a soft top that will keep us out of the weather on nasty days but could be removed on nice days.

Float - I'm trying to stay under $15,000. I hear lots of good things about the Whaler quality and ride.

+1 for 4-strokes. I would say lean more towards a helm style boat as the cc consumes a large portion of your fishing space on the smaller boats. Only boat I will talk not so kindly of is the 16' Hewes sportsman - worst ride I have ever had (did catch a lot of fish this summer though!).

Maybe this should be asked in a different thread? But, what is wrong with a merc 4-stroke? They have been building longer than the other two you mentioned combined. I'm sure they are as efficient as the others. I have not heard any bad reports on them. To be honest I have never really heard any reports on them. When I bought my boat< i looked into a Verado, I couldnt come anywhere near the price of the yamaha 150. I could have bought a 150 optimax for 1500 less but wanted to stay away from 2-strokes. I am totally happy with what I have, I think I would have been as happy with a merc though. As far as kickers go, I couldnt imagine anything other than a t-8.

uh... Merc was having yami build their 4-strokes for the first couple of years. I don't belive merc had their own until the verrado line. Probably why they didnt start having problems until the verrado line.

Merc, Yami, its all about what you like. I just did all the searching for a new main motor. I needed a jet drive, so a 4 stroke wasnt really a choice. I live in California, and the Yamaha 2 strokes dont meet the EPA standards, and you cant buy one in California. I went with a Mercury Optimax. They just came out with a 5 year warranty, still cant believe a 5 year warranty on an outboard. I have been happy with my choice. Good luck, and dont be in a hurry.

I had a merc 115 4 stroke and it was tight, no issues. i was referring to many of the used boats u were showing with the merc "black death" two strokes...u might as well get another 8 g's outta your wallet and repower if u go that direction...cheers

Lots of good advice in all of the posts but there is another approach to getting a good Puget Sound / lake fishing boat at a lot less cost. First you have to think of the purchase as three separate items, boat, motor, and trailer. For the kind of fishing you describe and your concerns the motor is the most important item because that is what you rely on to get you home fast when the weather turns bad. I think the trailer is also quite important if you travel any distance to launch because trailer problems can ruin a lot of trips. The boat is the least important item but does determine what size motor and trailer is needed. There are usually a good selection of old fiberglass boats for sale of all sizes and configurations, many times the motors are shot and the trailers are marginal so they are quite cheap. Often people want to get rid of them and will almost pay you to take them away. If it has a motor junk it and buy a new one. If the trailer works use it until you can afford a new one, it is easy to sell old trailers. Below is something I copied from a post I made on a similar thread from a few years ago.

"Back in 1980 when I was looking for a boat for Puget Sound I received some good advice from Puget Sound old timers. Any sturdy boat is OK, get a good trailer, and then spend more than you can afford get the best motor you can. Most motors will get you out fishing but if the weather changes you need a good motor to get you back fast or you can die. I don't recall all of the details but about 15 years ago at Port Angeles a surprise storm hit when several people were halibut fishing. I think 4 people and three boats didn't make it back. I talked to one person who was 2 miles west of Ediz Hook when he saw the storm coming from the west. He stopped fishing and headed for the harbor. By the time he rounded the hook the wind was 50 knots and he almost didn't make it to the ramp. I haven't encountered winds that strong but I have made more than my share of tense runs back to the ramp.

Finally, a tip, try to buy a used boat without a motor. Most of the time the motors are not in great shape and will require work. Boats without motors are in someone's way and they want to get rid of them fast. If you have the time identify the boat you want and then look for one with a junk motor and any kind of trailer. It should be cheap. New trailers are not so expensive, the cost of keeping a beater trailer fit for the road over ten years will probably be more than a new one. The boat I have today is the boat I bought in 1980, a 16-foot Pacific Mariner that was probably built in 1958. I am the third owner and yes the numbers are WN1A, supposedly the first boat registered when the Coast Guard begin registering boats in Washington. If you look aroud the ramps you will notice that people with the old fiberglass boats never use bumpers. The old hand layups are so strong that the only reason to use a bumper would be to protect the dock."

I am on the thrid trailer, thrid kicker, and third motor. The motor is a 60 hp 4 stroke Mercury that has been quite reliable. The kicker is a Yamaha 8 horse 4 stroke, a great motor, a 3 gallon tank of gas lasts for a week rather than days.

That's some real good advice WN1A.

I've owned these different boats over the past 5 years. 17 reinell , 20 trophy, 19 rienell, 17 hewes, 15 arima, 18 hewes, 19 arima (still have it). My 2 cents, while a little different, they all do basically the same thing in the end. Get you out fishing.

Boat priority on a budget for me goes like this.

First thing, new 4 stroke outboard motor. Trolls all day, sips fuel, no kicker (blech), starts instant, quiet, no smoke, warranty, etc. 8-10grand 90-135hp zuk or yam.

Second comes the boat. Biggest you can tow safely. Late 70's or newer, solid hull, closed bow with cuddy, stored under roof pref inside. If original vinyl interior looks good it prob didn't see to much weather. 1-3grand.

Trailer not as important as long as its road worthy. You can always find a good galvanized trailer in the off season for 500 to 1000 bucks.

If done right should provide years of hassle free boating.

5 simple steps to hapiness...

1. Post a message on piscatorial pursuits seeking advice from a bunch of knowledable folks
2. Read responses and use the information contained in them to purchase a new boat.
3. Spend ten hours getting the boat you bought set-up just the way you want it.
4. Take said boat to one of your favorite fishing spots.
5. Catch fish

Thanks for all the advice guys!

Right on Aaron!

Size?

Too many personal variables.

Performance?

The two areas your most interested in are static stability and dynamic stability. They are completely interrelated thru the geometry of the hull and it doesn't have to be a trade off. There are some really stable boats at rest that run out really well under varying loads. Some of these are on craigslist cheap. Most can be refurnished without blowing the bank. By comparing hulls with great characteristics to those that you are looking at, you can gauge how much you will enjoy running that particular boat.

Your ride and comfort level is effected most by your helm position relative to the center of gravity of the boat and basically dead-rise angle on a planing hull. The rate at wich the deadrise changes along the length of the hull is called dead rise progression and is no accident. Having a helm position shoved all the way fwd or having a low dead rise is asking for poor performance in the sound.

Final note: Most guys havent run enough boats to know if there boat is running out well. If a guy has owned 5 or 6 different boats in the length your interested in or is paid to run boats (testers) than you can probably use his opinion. Everyones comfort level is different so take em all with a grain a salt and try and actually run the boat you want.

Dave

Nice boat and a successful break-in trip. Congratulations.

Aaron,... you aint messin' around!

Nice Looking Boat! I like that hardtop setup alot...

Nice! looks like the Chaser cought a couple.

That is exactly the setup I was going to recommend as I read though this thread. We had a 19 Arima hardtop for a couple of years, if I had to do it again I would look for one just like the one you have.

That is a sweet setup! Nicely done!

Nice boat Aaron, did you get the Etec on that? Wanted to wait a few years to see what the feedback has been but I have heard nothing but good things regarding that engine...have fun out there...cheers

Guys - Thanks for the validation. Was wondering what everyone would think.

Summer - Yeah, it came with a 90HP E-Tec. I did a bit of research on it before I closed the deal and found all positive. The fish checker at Shilshole commented on it. Something to the effect, "That's a nice motor. It's what we use on our work boats. Really reliable with good fuel economy and power." So far (two days on the water), it's been great.

Aaron

Aaron -

I also did a lot of research and concluded that the e-tec motors were the way to go. There are a lot of people who are passionate about their 4 strokes, but I think you will see a lot more people moving back to 2 strokes given the new technology, clean emmissions, lighter weight, lower maintenance, quiet operation, and greatly improved fuel economy these motors provide compared to the old 2 stroke motors.