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#459302 - 10/11/08 09:15 AM Re: It won't matter who is president [Re: Erik]
Mike@North Bend Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 1402
Loc: North Bend
Saw a Boeing Exec on the news this morning. He said they want to continue to build airplanes in Seatte. However, he added the all important, "but", then made reference to a reliable work force.
_________________________
"90% of Life is just showing up and doing the work". Tred Barta Sr.

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#459339 - 10/11/08 05:33 PM Re: It won't matter who is president [Re: Mike@North Bend]
Jaba'da butt Offline
Spawner

Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 725
Loc: Kelso, wa.
My brother -in -law is a contractor and he was building custom homes ,now he's doing handy man jobs for a lot less money. I work in the food business and deliver to chain stores, at least people have to eat so my job isn't in jeopardy yet. what bugs me is knowing people who max out their credit cards and have nothing to show for them and absolutely know they live a life style that they can't afford and now their paying through the nose in interests and some have filed for bankruptcy! The mortgage lenders saw a fat cat during the housing boom and they don't want to take a fall , Hey, it's like gambling you pay the piper if you lose. Politicians get money out of this mess,too! I'm writing in Bill Cosby as he's the only one that has any BRAINS!

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#459347 - 10/11/08 07:17 PM Re: It won't matter who is president [Re: Jaba'da butt]
bodysurf Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 11/28/01
Posts: 284
Loc: olympia
if you want a so-called free-market ,laissez-faire approach to the economy you're going to get big boom-bust cycles...the USA suffered DEPRESSIONS every 30 years or so until the great depression when people decided that a regulated market and a little socialism may be a good thing...the only thing preventing a total collapse of the financial markets now are some remnants of the New Deal that everyone's been trying to dismantle...you can't have it both ways...if you ascribe to the greenspan..freidman..ron paul free market philosophy that's what you get....ever play monopoly? that's what will happen....and is ...
this blind devotion to 'free trade' instead of fair trade has caused americans' standard of living race to the bottom and destroyed any manufacturing base we'd had except for arms sales...boeing's making a lot of money on that...the disparity in wealth is as wide as it was in the Gilded Age...
the great depression created an opportunity for the working people to get a little more equality and concessions from the powerful....willl we do it now?
..on his death bed Eugene Debbs was asked if he had any regrets...he said..."I regret that the american people could have anything they want but they seem to want so little of anything..." ..will that be us?

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#459359 - 10/11/08 09:10 PM Re: It won't matter who is president [Re: bodysurf]
Slab Happy Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 01/11/03
Posts: 2887
Loc: Discovery Bay, Wa. 98368
It seems there is always the pendulum affect.....first too far one way and then too far the other.
Unions came about as a result of worker abuse by Corporate Heads, so to speak.
Now, we have reached the point where employers have to slow production so a worker can have a baby for instance, or has trouble getting rid of an unsatisfactory employee. It's things like these that hurt the golden goose called a pay check. (flame away if you like, but you know it's true). One of the self defeating things that come with unions is a "it's not my job" and "why should I do more?" attitude that employers are forced to swallow. And it's that swallowing that cuts profits. No profits, no employees. There also is a general attitude of "You owe me" and "How can I get something for nothing" life style that leeches from everyone and kills any desire to do an honest day's work for an honest day's pay.

OK, I done. Just my random two cents worth.
_________________________
Don't mistake tolerance or compliance for respect.

Giving weight to any response when asking a liar, "Are you lying?" is beyond foolish.

Salmo G...."Given the lack of cooperation, extinction for this dinosaur gillnet fishery is in order." Amen

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#459364 - 10/11/08 10:27 PM Re: It won't matter who is president [Re: bodysurf]
KoneZone Offline
Smolt

Registered: 09/02/06
Posts: 89
Loc: Forest Grove, Oregon
It surprises me that folks don't seem to understand what happened. As long ago as 1992 through 2008 Politicians rigged the system requiring banks to lend to complete deadbeats. They didn't have a snowballs chance in hell of paying the debt. It was slowly brought into play in the name of FAIRNESS with the threat of RACISM. How could you blame a bank for trying to shift that kind of debt? It's all there for the world to see and it should be uncovered by a special prosecutor, unless the ones that orchestrated it remain in power. I pray that enough people will realize the power of their voice and don't just waste it on a popular thought. Free trade is the American way and it keeps things healthy. If Sam sells sinkers for too high a price then Lenny's lead service will step up to the plate and the market will even out. RANT OVER. I sure love our country. grin
_________________________
HeatZone by KoneZone www.KoneZone.com

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#459366 - 10/11/08 11:21 PM Re: It won't matter who is president [Re: Slab Happy]
Erik Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 12/11/99
Posts: 288
Loc: North of Seattle/ South of For...
Originally Posted By: Slab Happy
One of the self defeating things that come with unions is a "it's not my job" and "why should I do more?" attitude that employers are forced to swallow. And it's that swallowing that cuts profits. No profits, no employees.


I pay union dues myself and couldn't agree more. I had this conversation with a sprinkler fitter this last summer right after they settled their strike. He felt that the hefty raise he got was justified and the cost would/ should be passed on to the end user. Guess what- he's lookin for work. doh

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#459409 - 10/12/08 05:02 PM Re: It won't matter who is president [Re: KoneZone]
goharley Offline
Carcass

Registered: 03/27/02
Posts: 2094
Loc: U.S. Army
Originally Posted By: KoneZone
It surprises me that folks don't seem to understand what happened.


I couldn't agree more. Please read this and this.

Free trade is the American way, but unregulated free trade has caused every financial crisis the United States has experienced in its history.

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#459411 - 10/12/08 05:07 PM Re: It won't matter who is president [Re: hohbomb73]
big moby Offline
Juvenille at Sea

Registered: 08/28/08
Posts: 206
Loc: forest grove , Or
Originally Posted By: hohbomb73
A Hard Rain's A-Gonna Fall

Oh, where have you been, my blue-eyed son?
Oh, where have you been, my darling young one?
I've stumbled on the side of twelve misty mountains,
I've walked and I've crawled on six crooked highways,
I've stepped in the middle of seven sad forests,
I've been out in front of a dozen dead oceans,
I've been ten thousand miles in the mouth of a graveyard,
And it's a hard, and it's a hard, it's a hard, and it's a hard,
And it's a hard rain's a-gonna fall.

Oh, what did you see, my blue-eyed son?
Oh, what did you see, my darling young one?
I saw a newborn baby with wild wolves all around it
I saw a highway of diamonds with nobody on it,
I saw a black branch with blood that kept drippin',
I saw a room full of men with their hammers a-bleedin',
I saw a white ladder all covered with water,
I saw ten thousand talkers whose tongues were all broken,
I saw guns and sharp swords in the hands of young children,
And it's a hard, and it's a hard, it's a hard, it's a hard,
And it's a hard rain's a-gonna fall.

And what did you hear, my blue-eyed son?
And what did you hear, my darling young one?
I heard the sound of a thunder, it roared out a warnin',
Heard the roar of a wave that could drown the whole world,
Heard one hundred drummers whose hands were a-blazin',
Heard ten thousand whisperin' and nobody listenin',
Heard one person starve, I heard many people laughin',
Heard the song of a poet who died in the gutter,
Heard the sound of a clown who cried in the alley,
And it's a hard, and it's a hard, it's a hard, it's a hard,
And it's a hard rain's a-gonna fall.

Oh, who did you meet, my blue-eyed son?
Who did you meet, my darling young one?
I met a young child beside a dead pony,
I met a white man who walked a black dog,
I met a young woman whose body was burning,
I met a young girl, she gave me a rainbow,
I met one man who was wounded in love,
I met another man who was wounded with hatred,
And it's a hard, it's a hard, it's a hard, it's a hard,
It's a hard rain's a-gonna fall.

Oh, what'll you do now, my blue-eyed son?
Oh, what'll you do now, my darling young one?
I'm a-goin' back out 'fore the rain starts a-fallin',
I'll walk to the depths of the deepest black forest,
Where the people are many and their hands are all empty,
Where the pellets of poison are flooding their waters,
Where the home in the valley meets the damp dirty prison,
Where the executioner's face is always well hidden,
Where hunger is ugly, where souls are forgotten,
Where black is the color, where none is the number,
And I'll tell it and think it and speak it and breathe it,
And reflect it from the mountain so all souls can see it,
Then I'll stand on the ocean until I start sinkin',
But I'll know my song well before I start singin',
And it's a hard, it's a hard, it's a hard, it's a hard,
It's a hard rain's a-gonna fall.

-Bob Dylan



Weird, I was just listening to that song yesterday
_________________________
rub a dub dub....wait a minute..why are there three men in a tub?

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#459412 - 10/12/08 05:08 PM Re: It won't matter who is president [Re: goharley]
Kanektok Kid Online   sleepy
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/12/03
Posts: 4418
Loc: undisclosed location
There you go again GH......................... grin

If you keep injecting facts into these threads, the wingnuts talking points on the whole mortgage mess will wind up like the straight talk express, sideays in a ditch with 3 wheels on the ground.
rofl
_________________________
No Threat to Fish




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#459413 - 10/12/08 05:10 PM Re: It won't matter who is president [Re: Slab Happy]
Chum Man Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 11/07/99
Posts: 1627
Originally Posted By: Slab Happy
One of the self defeating things that come with unions is a "it's not my job" and "why should I do more?" attitude that employers are forced to swallow.

OK, I done. Just my random two cents worth.
with more responsibility comes more pay, at least in a perfect world. how would you like it if your employer added a bunch of additional job duties to you and your co-workers, but refused to give you a raise?

it's a slippery slope, some unions have become all-powerful and abusive(UAW in detroit for example), others, like the one i'm in, have very little power other than at least getting token negotiations out of the company. you can't lump them all together.

i'm on the verge of losing my job(on or around november 7th). it's a tough time to work in the newspaper world as it is, and with the added crashing economy, even worse.

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#459422 - 10/12/08 05:50 PM Re: It won't matter who is president [Re: Chum Man]
willametteriveroutlaw Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 10/26/02
Posts: 294
Loc: Salem OR
To top things off chinook fishing is shitty!
_________________________
Bigot(noun): Anyone a liberal disagress with. *Also see: Fascist.

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#459424 - 10/12/08 05:59 PM Re: It won't matter who is president [Re: goharley]
Hankster Offline
Spawner

Registered: 01/24/07
Posts: 829
Loc: San Francisco,CA
Well I'm convinced now. Freddie/Fannie had absolutely nothing to do with the mess we're in and I will sleep better tonight knowing it was those nasty Republican deregulations that actually caused the problem. Whew! What a relief.

The only problem I now face is I will have to intercept the letter I wrote to Barney Frank castigating him for playing the race card and calling him a pathetic and despicable little creature. Also the one I sent to Dodd for having his head up his ass.
_________________________
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress....but I repeat myself."
Mark Twain

For those who understand, no explanation is needed.
For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible.



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#459447 - 10/12/08 07:14 PM Re: It won't matter who is president [Re: Hankster]
Todd Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 7402
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
I wouldn't worry about the letters, Hank...all politicians of every stripe need a little dressing down every once in a while...reminds them that they have actual constituents out there.

Fish on...

Todd
_________________________


Team "Drift Boat Veterans for Truth"

http://www.rvrfshr.com

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#459468 - 10/12/08 07:48 PM Re: It won't matter who is president [Re: Todd]
Kanektok Kid Online   sleepy
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/12/03
Posts: 4418
Loc: undisclosed location
Yeah don't worry about those letters................. grin

Where do you think the terrorist watch list comes from anyway ?
_________________________
No Threat to Fish




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#459484 - 10/12/08 08:24 PM Re: It won't matter who is president [Re: Kanektok Kid]
Hankster Offline
Spawner

Registered: 01/24/07
Posts: 829
Loc: San Francisco,CA
I am very,very afraid. I haven't been toeing the new party line and I've been accused of not bowing down to The One. I'm certain I'll be one of the first into the re-education camps that KK is building the berms for.
_________________________
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress....but I repeat myself."
Mark Twain

For those who understand, no explanation is needed.
For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible.



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#459486 - 10/12/08 08:32 PM Re: It won't matter who is president [Re: Hankster]
Todd Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 7402
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
Yer luckier than the rest of us, Hank...Progressives don't demand adherence to a party line, one that is retarded-like illogical...it's our biggest problem, to be honest.

Getting all the Progressives in line is like herding cats...we all tend to think for ourselves and are almost as hard on our own leadership as we are on the jacknobs who have been in charge the past several years.

Thankfully the RWWJ's have given us enough issues to fall in line behind that the upcoming elections are going to be a rout.

Fish on...

Todd
_________________________


Team "Drift Boat Veterans for Truth"

http://www.rvrfshr.com

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#459487 - 10/12/08 08:35 PM Re: It won't matter who is president [Re: Todd]
Hankster Offline
Spawner

Registered: 01/24/07
Posts: 829
Loc: San Francisco,CA
I'd have to think that getting a lot of progressives together on anything would be more like shoveling fleas than herding cats.
_________________________
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress....but I repeat myself."
Mark Twain

For those who understand, no explanation is needed.
For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible.



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#459513 - 10/12/08 09:46 PM Re: It won't matter who is president [Re: Hankster]
Todd Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 7402
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
However you want to analogize it, the fact is we have too many diverse ideas...which is encouraged...to have a concrete party line to delineate on talk shows in the form of talking points...logical or not...for regurgitating back in any forum, including fishing BB's.

It takes a real failure like what we've been seeing out of the Republican Party over the past several years to get us to agree on much...and we all agree that the first thing we have to do is get rid of all of them, and then we'll work on our own differences.

Some might say that this phenomenon is the most constructive thing that the Repubs have managed since 2000...

Fish on...

Todd
_________________________


Team "Drift Boat Veterans for Truth"

http://www.rvrfshr.com

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#459515 - 10/12/08 09:56 PM Re: It won't matter who is president [Re: Todd]
Hankster Offline
Spawner

Registered: 01/24/07
Posts: 829
Loc: San Francisco,CA
If you get rid of all of the neo-cons and the "compassionate-conservatives" that wouldn't hurt my feelings one bit. There's really not a spits worth of difference between the two and sometimes it's hard to tell them apart from the libs.

If you don't have someone around that is watching the purse strings, some true conservatives, this country will be in a lot more trouble than it is now. You need some balance.
_________________________
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress....but I repeat myself."
Mark Twain

For those who understand, no explanation is needed.
For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible.



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#459524 - 10/13/08 12:18 AM Re: It won't matter who is president [Re: Hankster]
Todd Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 7402
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
Bill Clinton knew how to watch the purse strings...you don't have to be a Republican to be fiscally conservative...and if the past eight years haven't proven that, than nothing ever will.

Fish on...

Todd
_________________________


Team "Drift Boat Veterans for Truth"

http://www.rvrfshr.com

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