Well that is his exact quote. Here is the link if you want it.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x8495975

Not debating the quote. But rather agreeing with the FACT that health care could be delivered much more efficiently & much cheaper minus the billionaire CEOs. That's all.

Like I said mom has been in the industry for along time. I have heard plenty of stories, so I have no love for insurance companies. I just don't believe that the government can administer anything more efficiently or effectively than the private sector.

Well, somethings gotta give cause the path we are on leads to nowhere. Admire Obama for trying to do this, it will either break him or make him, shows that he cares more about America than himself.

If the gubmint option isn't able to compete with the private sector because the private sector is so much more efficient, then what are you afraid of? No one will go with the public option, and no one will be forced to...not even you if you change jobs.

The idea that an industry who makes its billions by accepting premiums then denying coverage is better for the consumer is a pretty long stretch...that's why they're spending a million dollars per day to put out propaganda and blatant lies to scare people.

From the looks of this thread, it's money well spent on some folks.

Fish on...

Todd

Well Todd you are supposed to be an attorney. What does this say?

SEC. 102. PROTECTING THE CHOICE TO KEEP CURRENT COVERAGE.

(a) Grandfathered Health Insurance Coverage Defined- Subject to the succeeding provisions of this section, for purposes of establishing acceptable coverage under this division, the term ‘grandfathered health insurance coverage’ means individual health insurance coverage that is offered and in force and effect before the first day of Y1 if the following conditions are met:

(1) LIMITATION ON NEW ENROLLMENT
(A) IN GENERAL- Except as provided in this paragraph, the individual health insurance issuer offering such coverage does not enroll any individual in such coverage if the first effective date of coverage is on or after the first day of Y1.



I don't know, but it sounds like it could be interpreted to mean if you aren't already grandfathered in on a private plan you are on the gov's plan.


Come on Todd, surely you must see that private industry can't win when one of the players they are competing against is making the rules.

Vic, if you are laid off from your job now where do you go for health coverage....yo momma?

Your options today:

Quit your job = good luck finding insurance. If you do it will be big bucks and not cover pre-existing conditions.
Get laid off = COBRA = (no income and a $500 a month bill) or become destitute and go on....GOVERNMENT INSURANCE.

Private Health Insurance is so bloated and inefficient it can't compete with government, is that what you're saying Vic ?

I have had a recent experience with th VA hospital, some departments are extraordinarily officiant, radiology comes to mind. I'm not at all afraid of the government getting involved in healthcare. The care givers there blow away many of the staff I have seen at other hospitals. One thing though. they have a posting and you see it all over the place. Non cancelled, missed appointments cost th VA $1 million, this would be a s problem if a similar program was expanded just a thought.

Didn't you guys read the clause from the bill I posted? If I am reading it correctly, it isn't an option at all. It is designed to put private companies out of business over time. Doesn't that bother anyone?

Ain't it amazin' how the left leaners want guv. in all our lives? The fact is, no one gets turned away for medical care. It's available and free or damn cheap. Oregon has their own medical plan for those less fortunate. A lot of them refuse to pay the $10 bucks a month to get it and would rather go the emergency room route.

A neighbor who had no insurance recently checked himself in to the hospital had his gall bladder removed and left the next day. he paid the bill with his own money. That was his choice. We have insurance that we pay for out of our retirement. My wife had two knee replacements, I had cancer surgery and radiation and we paid less than $1000 co pay.

Medicare does nothing. They rely on and turn the money over to providers to offer you health care under your supplemental insurance. And the providers do a damn good job as far as we are concerned.

Anyone can go online in Oregon, apply for an insurance card, free, and get their meds at the same rate we get them for with paid insurance.

So please tell me why the feds need to inject their faces into our private lives?

I agree that every person should have a living will. Both of my parents had a do not rescucitate provison that was honored in both their cases. But that does not mean the government should dictate the terms. I didn't get my info from Hannity. It came from Daschle who very plainly stated that old people were going to have to accept the fact that end of life care may not be available under the plan.

Daschle says health-care reform “will not be pain free.” Seniors should be more accepting of the conditions that come with age instead of treating them. That means the elderly will bear the brunt.

Thanks Barry and Tom, I'd like to be able to make that decision without your help.

Please tell me why this is good for us? Don't you just love the one on Page 50?

Oh [censored]! I just realized now someone is going to turn me in to the White House!



Subject: A few highlights from the first 500 pages of the Healthcare bill in congress

Contact your Representatives and let them know how you feel about this. We, as a country, cannot afford another 1000 page bill to go through congress without being read. Another 500 pages to go.

. Page 22: Mandates audits of all employers that self-insure!
. Page 29: Admission: your health care will be rationed!
. Page 30: A government committee will decide what treatments and benefits you get (and, unlike an insurer, there will be no appeals process)
. Page 42: The "Health Choices Commissioner" will decide health benefits for you. You will have no choice. None.
. Page 50: All non-US citizens, illegal or not, will be provided with free healthcare services.
. Page 58: Every person will be issued a National ID Health card.
. Page 59: The federal government will have direct, real-time access to all individual bank accounts for electronic funds transfer.
. Page 65: Taxpayers will subsidize all union retiree and community organizer health plans (read: SEIU, UAW and ACORN)
. Page 72: All private healthcare plans must conform to government rules to participate in a Healthcare Exchange.
. Page 84: All private healthcare plans must participate in the Healthcare Exchange (i.e., total government control of private plans)
. Page 91: Government mandates linguistic infrastructure for services; translation: illegal aliens
. Page 95: The Government will pay ACORN and Americorps to sign up individuals for Government-run Health Care plan.
. Page 102: Those eligible for Medicaid will be automatically enrolled: you have no choice in the matter.
. Page 124: No company can sue the government for pr ice-fixing. No "judicial review" is permitted against the government monopoly. Put simply, private insurers will be crushed.
. Page 127: The AMA sold doctors out: the government will set wages.
. Page 145: An employer MUST auto-enroll employees into the government-run public plan. No alternatives.
. Page 126: Employers MUST pay healthcare bills for part-time employees AND their families.
. Page 149: Any employer with a payroll of $400K or more, who does not offer the public option, pays an 8% tax on payroll
. Page 150: Any employer with a payroll of $250K-400K or more, who does not offer the public option, pays a 2 to 6% tax on payroll
. Page 167: Any individual who doesn't' have acceptable healthcare (according to the government) will be taxed 2.5% of income.
. Page 170: Any NON-RESIDENT alien is exempt from individual taxes (Americans will pay for them).
. Page 195: Officers and employees of Government Healthcare Bureaucracy will have access to ALL American financial and personal records.
. Page 203: "The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax." Yes, it really says that.
. Page 239: Bill will reduce physician services for Medicaid. Seniors and the poor most affected."
. Page 241: Doctors: no matter what specialty you have, you'll all be paid the same (thanks, AMA!)
. Page 253: Government sets value of doctors' time, their professional judgment, etc.
. Page 265: Government mandates and controls productivity for private healthcare industries.
. Page 268: Government regulates rental and purchase of power-driven wheelchairs.
. Page 272: Cancer patients: welcome to the wonderful world of rationing!
. Page 280: Hospitals will be penalized for what the government deems preventable re-admissions.
. Page 298: Doctors: if you treat a patient during an initial admission that results in a readmission, you will be penalized by the government.
. Page 317: Doctors: you are now prohibited for owning and investing in healthcare companies!
. Page 318: Prohibition on hospital expansion. Hospitals cannot expand without government approval.
. Page 321: Hospital expansion hinges on "community" input: in other words, yet another payoff for ACORN.
. Page 335: Government mandates establishment of outcome-based measures: i.e., rationing.
. Page 341: Government has authority to disqualify Medicare Advantage Plans, HMOs, etc.
. Page 354: Government will restrict enrollment of SPECIAL NEEDS individuals.
. Page 379: More bureaucracy: Telehealth Advisory Committee (healthcare by phone).
. Page 425: More bureaucracy: Advance Care Planning Consult: Senior Citizens, assisted suicide, euthanasia?
. Page 425: Government will instruct and consult regarding living wills, durable powers of attorney, etc. Mandatory. Appears to lock in estate taxes ahead of time.
. Page 425: Government provides approved list of end-of-life resources, guiding you in death.
. Page 427: Government mandates program that orders end-of-life treatment; government dictates how your life ends.
. Page 429: Advance Care Planning Consult will be used to dictate treatment as patient's health deteriorates. This can include an ORDER for end-of-life plans. An ORDER from the GOVERNMENT.
. Page 430: Government will decide what level of treatments you may have at end-of-life.
. Page 469: Community-based Home Medical Services: more payoffs for ACORN.
. Page 472: Payments to Community-based organizations: more payoffs for ACORN.
. Page 489: Government will cover marriage and family therapy. Government intervenes in your marriage.
. Page 494: Government will cover mental health services: defining, creating and rationing those services.

A quick peek at that list shows several inaccuracies without even having to go to the page and read it...don't trust whomever put that list together.

Fish on...

Todd

P.S. Haven't yet read the stuff about "grandfathered plans"...I will when I get a chance.

And what might those inaccuracies be? Sounds to me like the whole dang plan is subject to inaccuracies. Even the authors don't know what it says. of course I'm not an attorney

The list above looks to be a biased opinion, it doesn't look to be factual as much as speculation.

The government requires private sector insurance and providers to conform to regulations already, to ensue that this concept is new and designed to put the private sector out of business is as ridiculous as saying they are going to take our guns away and we are going to be waiting in line for bread and TP.

Keeping the private sector from using the "It's our way or stand in line at county" as they have in the past is the main concern here and many private insurance companies are doing all they can to make people think the government is coming to take away their health care and deny care to the elderly with no options.


The SEC. 102. PROTECTING THE CHOICE TO KEEP CURRENT COVERAGE. posted above looks to say that if you have insurance coverage that does not comply with the new regulations, you can keep it but new members cant be added to the grandfathered plan after the fact.

You are not forced into government coverage, you have every right to go pick any insurance you want, this is to protect plans that people currently have that they do not want to give up as a result of new regs.

No one is forcing you to government health care, insurance companies are just trying to scare people into keeping the current collect premiums / deny claims situation we have been in for years, hell wouldn't you if it meant keeping a 6-7 figure salary?

It always cracks me up when someone who has been sucking off the government teat her whole life, including government run health care, has a problem with the rest of us taxpayers wanting it...especially when the rest of us actually are taxpayers, not just married to one.

Fish on...

Todd

"Ain't it amazin' how the left leaners want guv. in all our lives? The fact is, no one gets turned away for medical care. It's available and free or damn cheap. Oregon has their own medical plan for those less fortunate. A lot of them refuse to pay the $10 bucks a month to get it and would rather go the emergency room route. "

And who ends up paying? You the government. Or is Oregon printing money these days? If so then it's the rest of us who are supplying your state welfare.

"We have insurance that we pay for out of our retirement. "

Alot of people lose their insurance when they retire because most corps would rather you go on the govt teet, or nothing....they don't care.
Also, alot of people who thought they had corp healthcare through retirement have had the rug yanked out from under them? You better hope that doesn't happen to you because, like most people, I bet you don't have it gauranteed for life in writing.

It's like an AA program for some. The first step is admitting there's a problem.

Both Obama and Barney Franks have said that the way to a single payer system would have to incremental as the public would choke on it if forced on the public all at once. I have excellent health care that is paid for with monies negociated out of wages. I'm not interested in a single payer system. You can't add 47 million people to the current overall healthcare load and not increase wait times.

That's assuming those 47 million people don't get medical services now. I say they do and we pay for it.

Healthcare Reform, (and now it's called Insurance Reform) in the House Bill have costs that are unsustainable without tax increases for everybody....period.

The projected cost of 1 Trillion over ten years is a pipe dream and doesn't include the number of people that will be forced to switch to the govt plan when employers figure out they will actually save money by going that route.

Absent those numbers, the House plan extends the cost over several years making it look deceptively small. If you extend the cost an additional three years, it doubles.

If you calculate the total value of all of it's furure outlays subtracting any new revenue sources the House plan has a present-value shortfall of 13.6 Trillion.

In as much as Obama has stated his hope is to have a single-payer plan in place, there aren't enough "rich folks" to pay for it.

Be prepared to open your wallet.