Lots of things in professional sports have soured me a bit. The tatoo wearing, hip-hop NBA players of today are no match for the Magic-Bird-Jordan era. Baseball continues to struggle with steroid use and the controversy of breaking records. The NFL is struggling with law-breakers. However, by far, NASCAR is the biggest joke out there. I don't see how driving a car makes you an athlete? I just don't see how this "sport" has increased so much in popularity over the past few years.

Anybody disagree?

On the bright side, I think Tiger and Roger have been great for golf and tennis.

I disagree. You get in a NASCAR and drive it for 4 hours at 190mph and tell me it doen't whip your ass every week.

and Tiger is an athlete because? I agree NASCAR sucks,anyone who races any vehicle that goes around in a circle is NOT an athlete, however, off road racing , atv and motocross jockeys ARE athletes. Takes a lot of strength and stamina to muscle those rigs around a course. I know from experience, although my motocross days are long over, I was in the best shape of my life then.

Golfers are in much better physical condition then they used to be as well. Years ago the majority of the players were built like regular folk and many used to smoke during their rounds. Lee Treveno now refers to the PGA tour as the "flat belly tour".

As for NASCAR, I have no doubt that 3-4 hours at 150 to 200 mph beats up a guy pretty good and there is definitely some serious skills involved. NASCAR's popularity has peaked in the last couple of years and it will start to shrink some in the future due to too may 1.5 mile tracks and even though there are 43 cars on the track only 5-10 cars/drivers really have a shot to win week in and week out.

SM,

Since when does getting getting whipped around make you an althlete?

I agree, golf is marginal as a sport/being an althlete but at least there is not a motor involved.

Homer's quote about sums it up for me.

"We can hike anytime. This is our chance to see cars driving".

Sorry, I'm not convinced.

can you golf? tiger won a championship ON ONE LEG!!! i bet you couldnt even golf with 2. at least in golf they make them walk from each hole. sitting in a car is not athleticism. golfing takes some athleticism. NASCAR isnt a sport. its entertainment " and their takin a leeeffftttt....and another lefttttttt......oh look he just passed someone!!!" try hitting a ball the size of a ping pong ball with a tiny little club on the end of a stick within 100 yards of an intended target...that takes skill. driving a car in a circle? just training...not everyone can train to become a golf profesional. Motocrossing takes balance and a lot of lean muscle just like surfing....NASCAR...no way.


i am just tired, like you said, of all the steriods in baseball, losers in football, and hip hop dudes in the NBA. i think if your caught with steriods...BOOM your outta the league. one time...your out. this is so stupid that they just slap them on the wrist and they can go back to playing

ask some real race car drivers what they think of nascar...like schummacher or some autocrossers, or maybe even some rally racers....they laugh at nascar...

Having raced cars I would tell you that race car drivers aren't athletes the way more physical athletes are. But they are athletes. Driving is physically demanding and does take it out of ya. I raced on local short tracks, and after 40 laps your arse is whooped. I can't even imagine what 400-600 laps in one stretch would be like.

The only negative about NASCAR is that they are intentionally killing other forms of racing. World of Outlaws and Hooters Pro cup to name a few.

As for Mr Schumacher,,, I loved watching that guy before traction control. Lost respect for him when he (and others) started using it. What separates the drivers from the hacks is throttle control. Being able to smash on the gas peddle and not having to worry about spinning out just aint right. Throttle control is the name of the game. That is why most of the hot new drivers in NASCAR come from dirt racing. In dirt racing you steer the car off the back tires, which means you have to have a smooth right foot.

If NASCAR is such a joke, how is it Juan Montoya can win an Indy car championship, a F1 championship, but can't even stay out of his own way running with the Sprint Cup boys? How is it that when Jeff Gordon jumped in Juan Montoya's F1 car at Indy he went fast enough to qualify for previous race, but when Juan got in good old number 24 he couldn't make that car go fast enough to make the NASCAR race? I am not a huge Montoya fan, but I respect what he has accomplished.

Any way back to the topic at hand. Race car drivers are a unique form of athlete. Their skill requires mastery of their own body, and the machine they are in.

To each his own I guess is what it comes down to.

Me too.
A BIG +1!

This may generate some heated discussion but I'm saying it anyway, without trying to be a female gender bashing jerk.

It's pretty much accepted that on average, men are better athletes than women; stronger, faster, etc. In no other sport that I can think of has a woman been able to complete (and win) against men except with Danica Patrick in NASCAR. I think it's a great accomplishment for women but it sends a strong message to me that drivers are not athletes as compared to other sports.

There, I said it.

Montoya never won the F1 championship.

Let Jeff Gordon RACE JPM's McLaren and see where he winds up.........probably right around the same place you find Montoya in a Nascar race.

Schumacher stomped everyone's guts out before traction control, and he did it with traction control. Holding the gadgets engineers use to make the car as fast as it can be within the rules against the driver is pretty f'n stupid.

Besides all that, I'm pretty sure neither Nascar drivers or F1 drivers really give a sh!t if a bunch of fishermen think they're athletes.

I thought we were talking nascar not IRL...

athlete or not watching the control those guys show over a car doing 180+ they have my respect... I dont care if its nascar, IRL or F1...

I don't know why but I thought Montoya did win an F1 Championship. Must have had him confused with Villenuve. Finishing 3rd behind the Ferarris is the best he did.

Schumacher when he was with Williams was fun to watch. That guy slid the car around like it was a dirt car. Thats what I really liked about him. He had a win or die tryin attitude, and he won alot. Then he went to Ferrari and dominated. Kind of takes the fun our of watching when 1 guy wins every week.

You are right Gordon probably wouldn't enjoy the same success in any other form of racing. My point is that crossing over to isn't easy and NASCAR drivers aren't jokes.

Rowing a boat takes as much athleticism as a lot of "sports" out there...and that ain't much.

Fish on...

Todd

P.S. Sports include some sort of ball...

Danica Patrick has 1 career win, and that came when the 3 cars in front of her broke or crashed. She is in the sport cause she is a pretty face and can sell product. That is it.

Schumacher went to Ferrari from Benetton.

And Schumacher only dominated at Ferrari because SF has a huge budget and Ross Brawn, Schumacher, and the rest of the team busted their asses to drag a mid-field team back to the front.

I give a certain amount of respect to anyone at the top of their game, whether it's auto racing, golf, or darts. It takes a level of dedication to be at the top of any game.

I agree, Dan...but some are just "games", some are "pasttimes"...and others are sports.

Fish on...

Todd

Dam it Dan. Yes it was Beneton. Too many cheap beers since then. Damon Hill was in the Williams and and Hakkinen was McClaren's top driver.

I played football in school and a little Basketball and that was tough But racing cars is by far the hardest on your body . the inside temp of a car is always 35 to 50 degrees hotter then the outside temp so try sitting in a race suit in 150 degree temp , A car that is pushing or loose, takes alot of upper arm strength to control the car in turns. mental stress ,try driving in rush hour at 160 mph . anyone ever took a hit at 160 mph nothing in football even comes close . Unless you have been in a race car you can not judge . being a race car driver is more athletic then you think

Does being hard automatically mean it's athletic?

Fish on...

Todd

Its a different kind of athletic. You have to have feel for what the car is doing, where you are in relation to the other cars, a sense of momentum. You do need quick reactions, but they need to be controlled. Bad things happen in a race car when you stab the breaks too hard, or smash the gas pedal too soon, or yank on the steering wheel. Its more of a finesse thing.


If there isn't any athleticism involved women could be as good at it as men are. There haven't been any women who have won championships in any of the major circuits. There have been a few that are good, but none have ever achieved the top levels. The only exception I can think of would be Shirley Muldowney in drag racing.

Merg could tell us all how grueling "DRAG" racing is...

Biggest joke in sports, sorry I thought this was about Husky/Cougar football teams.

Hey look.

It's an Oregomer here to tell us about the storied past of the barkrats or pondcrappers.

Enjoy the cellar, huckin fuskies.

upper arm strength...? i admit it probably takes a little muscle and that it is mentally challenging....but sitting...in a car? just like with golf...if a guy not even in shape in his 50's can do it...proabably isnt going to be to physically demanding. football takes INSANE training to even step out on the field. unless your a lineman...then you just have to be big (the refrigerator) basketball? those guys run FOREVER, sprint, jump, super good cardio and fast muscle twitch. sitting....in a car? maybe lift a little weights but come on...no cardio, you dont have to be super strong or in shape. just a little endurance and mental strength with a natural talent for wanting to travel in a circle for 5 hours...and your golden. thats why women CAN do it. watch some women step out onto a rugby field, or football field, or even basketball....not gonna happen. i love the quality crowd that enjoys nascar to. you can tell alot about the sport by its fans. " gonna git down der and git me some hawt dawgs with mustard en dem chopped pickles, some quality warm budweiser or shcmidt beer..nah we aint needin no chairs! we git the igloo and some piggly wiggly bags stuffed with buns fer them dawgs..wheeewwww go earnhardt, pass me one them there hawt pawkets elma, they got real meat in em!"

the fact that women can even compete in the same event with men should tell you that its not very physically demanding. you wanna see real driving in crazy engineered machines with guys that are in really good shape to even control their cars? go watch a rally race. watch a camera inside an AWD Turbo subaru doin a buck forty on a DIRT track that twists and turns down canyons then through bumpy switchbacks down and up a mountain for 8 HOURS. THATS driving. that takes insane skill and talent to control a vehicle on a dirt track putting the car into controlled slides around hairpin turns doin 140 MPH. these guys are in super good shape. how about an endurance race in a twin turbo porsche on paved crazy tracks that last for the day or even longer...nascar should stay where it is enjoyed...by the southern folk. how do you think schmidt and budweiser can even stay in business...NASCAR and the south

You got a problem with HOTDOGS, bitch???

Pictures are worth a thousand words...sadly, NASCAR fans lack that diverse a vocabulary...

Isn't that Jamie Lee Curtis in the 5th pic, 2nd row?

I've raced local short tracks. Man what an adreneline rush. No quicker way to blow your life savings than to race a mid 70's "Hobby stock" Camaro.

Sure you're whipped after a night of racing and being out on the track and racing in tight traffic is more intense than anything in sports, but I agree that athleticism isn't what makes a race car driver successful. Spending more money, alienating your family, living in a garage and knowing how to set up your car, and then having the driving skills to go out there and win are the key factors.

For pure excitement and a rush like no other racing is it.

But there is absolutely no physical training needed, just the guts to get out there.

Lets see the guy that smokes 5 packs a day that has won several racing championships try to even compete in baseball, basketball, or footbal, or even soccer.

Racing is great entertainment, just not a sport IMO.

Driving one of those cars is probably a real blast. Watching them....not so much.

PDPA

Professional Ditch Pickle Association

Not going to find a finer, cleaner, and truer bunch of athletes out there.

"Get R Done!"

Driving cars fast is exhilerating. Watching somebody else do it hasn't interested me since I got my driver's license. Playing golf might be fun; don't know, never tried it, but watching it is about as exciting as watching paint dry. But then that's how I've felt about most sports for a long time. I'd rather play a sport than watch someone else do it, even if those I could watch are the best of the best and would only charge me $45 or so for the privilege of watching.

Sg

Only sport that seems to turn out the best athletes is Hockey.

Black people dominate sports in the United States - 20 percent of the population and 90 percent of the Final Four. We own this [censored]. Basketball, baseball, football, golf, tennis, and as soon as they make a heated hockey rink we'll take that [censored] too. ~Chris Rock

Hockey is a sport for white men. Basketball is a sport for black men. Golf is a sport for white men dressed like black pimps.
Tiger Woods


Herb Brooks: When you pull on that jersey, the name on the front is a hell of alot more important than the one on the back. --USA 1980

You're playing worse and worse every day and right now you're playing like it's next month.
Herb Brooks

Golf and race car driving are a lot a like, in that they are 90% mental games. There is a reason Tiger Woods is so good, and that is he does not break down under pressure. He has the rare ability to focus under extreme durress. Which is the difference between the good athletes and great ones in all sports (see Jordan, Brady, et al).

I agree with Stam soccer is a great sport, but the flopping is out of control. I think that when we formed the MLS we should have gotten rid of the flopping, whining, etc. it is so annoyingly European. If they could toughen it up a bit, I think I would be more interested.

Soccer ball with spikes on it?

Watching a Basebrawl game would be pretty cool.

Anyone have their 1974 (I believe) copy of Mad Magazine laying around?

If so, look up basebrawl.

Nascar is bottom feeding of motorsports.
Really.
Left hand turns on a highbank?
No thanks.
Late '80s IndyCar or F1....remember when ROADRACING cars had a shift lever?
And you had to use it?
Lyn St James once described road racing as peddling an exercise bike in a 140 degree room while pumping 20lb dumbbells in your hands while somebody whacks you in the ribs with a 2X4 and a wall comes toward you at 180mph.
Yeah, you better be physically and mentally tough.
NASCAR isn't in the same league.

It matters not whether it is NASCAR, golf, the NFL, NBA, motocross or whatever.
When you are speaking of the highest levels of professional competion they are all studs with skills beyond most people's comprehension.

Try to tell people how exhausting a full day of salmon/ steelhead fishing is.
All day, sun up to sundown, bucking fast water, cast after cast after cast.
Cramping up on the long drive home.
I've hit my bed in total exhaustion many times after one of those days but if you tried to tell an outsider, well, they'd laugh you out of the joint.

So can we say we are sport fishing "Athletes". If someone asked me if I participated in any sports I could be like "Yeah, I fish. I trolled from sun up to, to sun down the other day. On the way home I got a cramp in my index finger from scratching my butt for 14 straight hours. . . "

Yeah.
Exactly the same only totally different.

Fishing all day is about the same as racing all night. Whips my butt either way.

Bzzzzzt!!

That may be true for some forms of auto racing, but there are some forms of racing where you'd be a beat dog being lapped by the leaders if you don't employ an intense physical training regimen.

F1 racing for 2 hours in 120 degree heat would kill you if you didn't train like any other athlete does. You're not going to see some fat toad even fit in an F1 car, let alone be competitive in one.

NASCAR drivers may or may not be "athletes"... but they're definitely highly skilled at what they do.

I just can't stand to sit and watch it... or to be surrounded by "NASCAR devotees"!

++++

NASCAR isn't my gig..........but I understand the passion. Before the wonder of a DVR, I used to get up at 4:30 to watch F1 qualifying and races on the Speed Channel. And I made a trip to Belgium a couple years ago to watch the GP at Spa, and dumped a whole lot of money I could have used to upgrade a lot of fishing gear.

It was worth it.

F-1 is cool. I will agree that you'd have to be in great shape for that. I was referring to Nascar.

Actually, the coverage of Nascar is excellent if you're into it. I was suprised when I first started racing how familiar it looked to the in car coverage on TV. I watched Nascar for a couple years when I first got into racing short tracks but man, it's just incredibly boring to watch. I do have respect for what they do though.

Damn, when I read the title of this thread I thought it was about Brett Favrah!!!

Well...if driving and golf are being considered non athletic...how bout fishing...? is it a sport? I think both Nascar, golf and billiards can be considered .sports IMHO.

Terrel owens has got my vote.

Saundu,

All athletics involve sport, but not every sport involves athletics. Therefore driving, golf, and fishing are sports, but drivers, golfers, and fishermen are not athletes.

Thank you Descartes for helping us sort out this confusing world.

Sg