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#548752 - 10/23/09 09:41 PM Re: columbia spring chinook 2010 ***** [Re: salmon bake]
stlhdr1 Offline
BUCK NASTY!!

Registered: 01/26/00
Posts: 6424
Loc: Vancouver, WA
Originally Posted By: salmon bake
If the impact on wild winter steelhead was drastically reduced imagine the great returns we would see in just a few short years. So much money has been spent on habitat restoration on lower CR tribs. For these wild steelhead to recover. The only missing ingredient is spawning wild adults which get raped by gillnets. Without these nets hundreds of more steelies will spawn. Its that simple. With the shifts in hatcheries to wild broodstock, in which the hatchery runs come in march and early april ( clackamas gets lots of winter steel in april even into may) we would see much better returns without gillnets. Hatchery summer steelhead climbing willamette falls, supplying tens of thousands of fish to willamette valley steelheaders would see way more fish without gillnets. The lower columbia trib. Fish impacts will be near zero without gillnets and that's exiting news for die hard steelheaders that would rather not buy a 50,000 dollar sled for a three week season.


Perhaps the nets shouldn't fish the LCR before May 1st? They could easily fill their quotas in a short time period in the first 2 weeks of May.... Again, I'd love to see the nets gone but...... It won't happen.............

But that's not the debate at hand...

Keith help
_________________________
It's time to put the red rubber nose away, clown seasons over.


Top
#548753 - 10/23/09 09:45 PM Re: columbia spring chinook 2010 [Re: salmon bake]
boater Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 07/01/09
Posts: 1760
Loc: common sense ave.
Originally Posted By: salmon bake
If the impact on wild winter steelhead was drastically reduced imagine the great returns we would see in just a few short years. So much money has been spent on habitat restoration on lower CR tribs. For these wild steelhead to recover. The only missing ingredient is spawning wild adults which get raped by gillnets. Without these nets hundreds of more steelies will spawn. Its that simple. With the shifts in hatcheries to wild broodstock, in which the hatchery runs come in march and early april ( clackamas gets lots of winter steel in april even into may) we would see much better returns without gillnets. Hatchery summer steelhead climbing willamette falls, supplying tens of thousands of fish to willamette valley steelheaders would see way more fish without gillnets. The lower columbia trib. Fish impacts will be near zero without gillnets and that's exiting news for die hard steelheaders that would rather not buy a 50,000 dollar sled for a three week season.


according to the link below there was 4 wild steelhead killed durring the tanglenet fishery by the non-tribals, can you post a link that shows that hundreds were killed ?, thanks.

http://wdfw.wa.gov/fish/crc/crc04aug09fact.pdf

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#548754 - 10/23/09 09:46 PM Re: columbia spring chinook 2010 [Re: Todd]
Fast and Furious Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 3164
Todd, You have been repeating that like a Rain man for two years.
Prove it.

I want to see your math and I want to know what LAWS cannot be changed.

Just remember, the state tried to increase the ESA limit to four or six percent. That would have changed the math.



All Im doing is changing the math. With that, I expect Boater, freedrool, and Keith to come up with the best reasons they can, why they deserve more than a 50-50 split of hatchery fish with the non tribal commercials. 2% ESA will be an old number no longer useful.

Then you have to make sure you JAM the hearing rooms, and the mailboxes of your representatives.

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#548757 - 10/23/09 09:55 PM Re: columbia spring chinook 2010 [Re: Fast and Furious]
boater Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 07/01/09
Posts: 1760
Loc: common sense ave.
Originally Posted By: Lead Bouncer


With that, I expect Boater, freedrool, and Keith to come up with the best reasons they can, why they deserve more than a 50-50 split of hatchery fish with the non tribal commercials.



thanks for clarifying your position.

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#548759 - 10/23/09 10:00 PM Re: columbia spring chinook 2010 [Re: boater]
Fast and Furious Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 3164
Originally Posted By: boater
Originally Posted By: salmon bake
If the impact on wild winter steelhead was drastically reduced imagine the great returns we would see in just a few short years. So much money has been spent on habitat restoration on lower CR tribs. For these wild steelhead to recover. The only missing ingredient is spawning wild adults which get raped by gillnets. Without these nets hundreds of more steelies will spawn. Its that simple. With the shifts in hatcheries to wild broodstock, in which the hatchery runs come in march and early april ( clackamas gets lots of winter steel in april even into may) we would see much better returns without gillnets. Hatchery summer steelhead climbing willamette falls, supplying tens of thousands of fish to willamette valley steelheaders would see way more fish without gillnets. The lower columbia trib. Fish impacts will be near zero without gillnets and that's exiting news for die hard steelheaders that would rather not buy a 50,000 dollar sled for a three week season.


according to the link below there was 4 wild steelhead killed durring the tanglenet fishery by the non-tribals, can you post a link that shows that hundreds were killed ?, thanks.

http://wdfw.wa.gov/fish/crc/crc04aug09fact.pdf


Can you post a link to the two non commercial, non family members, non supplier vendors, WITNESSES THAT SIGNED THE DAILY CATCH REPORT? Id also like to know if the president of Salmon for All was included in that catch report?


Edited by Lead Bouncer (10/23/09 10:02 PM)

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#548760 - 10/23/09 10:02 PM Re: columbia spring chinook 2010 [Re: stlhdr1]
salmon bake Offline
I get my candy from Todd

Registered: 08/13/09
Posts: 120
Gosh, ESA wild chinook that spawn in the lower columbia too. They will greatly benefit from not being gillneted. Sandy, Clackamas, molalla, santiams, mckenzie, washougul, lewis, east fork lewis, cowlitz, kalama and any other lower CR trib wild spring chinook runs would all have a safe journey home without tangle/ gillnets ripping them up. Along with steelhead. Lower CR tribs would be the easiest to recover since they don't encounter the series of dams the upper CR fish must climb to get home.

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#548761 - 10/23/09 10:03 PM Re: columbia spring chinook 2010 [Re: Fast and Furious]
boater Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 07/01/09
Posts: 1760
Loc: common sense ave.
Originally Posted By: Lead Bouncer
Originally Posted By: boater
Originally Posted By: salmon bake
If the impact on wild winter steelhead was drastically reduced imagine the great returns we would see in just a few short years. So much money has been spent on habitat restoration on lower CR tribs. For these wild steelhead to recover. The only missing ingredient is spawning wild adults which get raped by gillnets. Without these nets hundreds of more steelies will spawn. Its that simple. With the shifts in hatcheries to wild broodstock, in which the hatchery runs come in march and early april ( clackamas gets lots of winter steel in april even into may) we would see much better returns without gillnets. Hatchery summer steelhead climbing willamette falls, supplying tens of thousands of fish to willamette valley steelheaders would see way more fish without gillnets. The lower columbia trib. Fish impacts will be near zero without gillnets and that's exiting news for die hard steelheaders that would rather not buy a 50,000 dollar sled for a three week season.


according to the link below there was 4 wild steelhead killed durring the tanglenet fishery by the non-tribals, can you post a link that shows that hundreds were killed ?, thanks.

http://wdfw.wa.gov/fish/crc/crc04aug09fact.pdf


Can you post a link to the two non commercial, non family members, non supplier vendors, WITNESSES THAT SIGNED THE DAILY CATCH REPORT? Id also like to know if the president of Salmon for All was included in that catch report?


sorry but i`m realy not interested in dealing with you anymore.

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#548764 - 10/23/09 10:13 PM Re: columbia spring chinook 2010 [Re: boater]
Jesus_H_Christ Offline
Egg

Registered: 10/09/09
Posts: 4
Originally Posted By: boater
sorry but i`m realy not interested in dealing with you anymore.


Boater my son, this is how I have felt about you for many, and I do say MANY years. A lost soul that has strayed far, far away, that has become far too interested in my sheep.


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#548768 - 10/23/09 10:20 PM Re: columbia spring chinook 2010 [Re: salmon bake]
stlhdr1 Offline
BUCK NASTY!!

Registered: 01/26/00
Posts: 6424
Loc: Vancouver, WA
Originally Posted By: salmon bake
Gosh, ESA wild chinook that spawn in the lower columbia too. They will greatly benefit from not being gillneted. Sandy, Clackamas, molalla, santiams, mckenzie, washougul, lewis, east fork lewis, cowlitz, kalama and any other lower CR trib wild spring chinook runs would all have a safe journey home without tangle/ gillnets ripping them up. Along with steelhead. Lower CR tribs would be the easiest to recover since they don't encounter the series of dams the upper CR fish must climb to get home.


Why is it that the wild fish #'s below the dams are just as bad as the wild fish #'s above the dams? Please don't answer with gillnets...... help What about the wild springer #'s along the Oregon Coast. The gillnets killing them there too?

Keith laugh
_________________________
It's time to put the red rubber nose away, clown seasons over.


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#548769 - 10/23/09 10:21 PM Re: columbia spring chinook 2010 [Re: Jesus_H_Christ]
Fast and Furious Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 3164
rofl

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#548775 - 10/23/09 10:57 PM Re: columbia spring chinook 2010 [Re: stlhdr1]
kevin lund Offline
Spawner

Registered: 12/23/01
Posts: 932
Loc: gales creek, or
Keith,

I wonder if those springers in the Siletz will hav a better chance to make a comeback once the nets get removed from teh Columbia. The siletz spring chinnok population ranges from 150-700 adults every year. They have never had hatchery influence and never had any restrictions on their limit, yet they can't break that magical 1000 fish run. The river is very healthy and could host several thousand springers. So is the Wilson, Trask, and Nestucca, though they have had hatchery fish planted in them for years, they have no better or worse of a wild run than the Siletz.
Does anyone have an answer to why this is?
_________________________
http://togiakriverlodge.net/
http://www.kevinlundfishingguide.com/
Proud member of the CCA
"BOCLMN"
Kevin Lund

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#548782 - 10/23/09 11:39 PM Re: columbia spring chinook 2010 [Re: kevin lund]
salmon bake Offline
I get my candy from Todd

Registered: 08/13/09
Posts: 120
Kevin, I heard a rumor from an old bad ass fisherman who lives up on the wilson that long ago people would dynamite the deep holes springers lived In during the low summer flows and that killed the run so bad that it hasn't recovered since.

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#548784 - 10/23/09 11:46 PM Re: columbia spring chinook 2010 [Re: kevin lund]
salmon bake Offline
I get my candy from Todd

Registered: 08/13/09
Posts: 120
Seems to me springers live best in rivers that come off high mountains with snow packs and glaciers. Springers ride snow melt high into river systems and wait summer out in deep canyon holes. You know far more than I about this stuff. Seems like fallies can spawn anywhere since they come home sexually mature. Seen fallies spawn in the pipeline hole on the kilches which is real close to tide w.

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#548785 - 10/23/09 11:50 PM Re: columbia spring chinook 2010 [Re: kevin lund]
stlhdr1 Offline
BUCK NASTY!!

Registered: 01/26/00
Posts: 6424
Loc: Vancouver, WA
Originally Posted By: kevin lund
Keith,

I wonder if those springers in the Siletz will hav a better chance to make a comeback once the nets get removed from teh Columbia. The siletz spring chinnok population ranges from 150-700 adults every year. They have never had hatchery influence and never had any restrictions on their limit, yet they can't break that magical 1000 fish run. The river is very healthy and could host several thousand springers. So is the Wilson, Trask, and Nestucca, though they have had hatchery fish planted in them for years, they have no better or worse of a wild run than the Siletz.
Does anyone have an answer to why this is?



I know, I know.... It's the dams, the beaver dams............... rofl

Keith
_________________________
It's time to put the red rubber nose away, clown seasons over.


Top
#548786 - 10/23/09 11:51 PM Re: columbia spring chinook 2010 [Re: boater]
salmon bake Offline
I get my candy from Todd

Registered: 08/13/09
Posts: 120
Bye bye boater bye bye. evil

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#548799 - 10/24/09 12:45 AM Re: columbia spring chinook 2010 [Re: salmon bake]
Jesus_H_Christ Offline
Egg

Registered: 10/09/09
Posts: 4
Originally Posted By: salmon bake
Bye bye boater bye bye. evil


Don't think that I want him up here anytime soon.

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#548803 - 10/24/09 12:57 AM Re: columbia spring chinook 2010 [Re: Fast and Furious]
boater Offline
Three Time Spawner

Registered: 07/01/09
Posts: 1760
Loc: common sense ave.
Originally Posted By: Lead Bouncer


With that, I expect Boater, freedrool, and Keith to come up with the best reasons they can, why they deserve more than a 50-50 split of hatchery fish with the non tribal commercials.



do you realize how many fish the sports would lose if they did split the hatchery springers 50-50 on the main stem columbia ?

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#548805 - 10/24/09 01:08 AM Re: columbia spring chinook 2010 [Re: boater]
salmon bake Offline
I get my candy from Todd

Registered: 08/13/09
Posts: 120
?

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#548811 - 10/24/09 02:23 AM Re: columbia spring chinook 2010 [Re: Fast and Furious]
OntheColumbia Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 11/02/01
Posts: 251
Loc: Columbia Co. Oregon
Originally Posted By: Lead Bouncer

Just remember, the state tried to increase the ESA limit to four or six percent. That would have changed the math.


With regards to spring chinook, you are mistaken.

The proposed tripling of incidental ESA impacts was on wild, lower river steelhead, in order to allow the gillnetters to kill more hatchery springers in the lower river.

Those below-Bonneville steelhead impacts are within OR/WA control. Once you talk about spring chinook destined for above Bonneville, then the Tribes are a full partner and the states will not be doing ANYTHING unilaterally, like "tripling the impacts".

That particular fight was in the pre-CCA days and the attempt was soundly trounced by a broad, unruly coalition of unwashed sportsfishers.
_________________________

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#548817 - 10/24/09 03:38 AM Re: columbia spring chinook 2010 [Re: OntheColumbia]
Fast and Furious Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 3164
OTC my point was, the fish and wildlife want to change the rule. We were lucky it was defeated. I know it was for steelhead. No, I dont deserve any of the credit.

I fish the cowlitz a lot. I cant remember a fish that didnt have net marks on it. Care to take a guess how many dead throwbacks and dropouts sportfisherman dont get to take a shot at? Im asking you, cause boater is done with me. I miss that little fart.

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