“There is a high demand for product (steelhead hatchery or wild) from distributor to wholesalers to market. The only way to curtail it would be at its source.”

I am not sure who you are getting that information from but that is not completely
accurate.

Again, there is no difference in hatchery or wild when the fish goes to market, it is all wild. Per COO regulations, it’s either wild or farmed. No in-between.


Most seafood brokers don’t have interest in dealing with wild or farmed Steelhead, especially in the Northwest. They rather deal in once frozen salmon or in-season fish. The only reason you see Steelhead being marketed aggressively is to fill in the void for fresh salmon, especially this time of the year.

Most consumers prefer Wild Salmon rather than farmed salmon or wild / farmed Steelhead. This information is based on 20 years plus experience in the seafood market.

Another thing they do with steelhead is to market it as Salmon in other parts of the country and or countries.

What solutions can you offer to a vendor other than don’t serve Wild Steelhead, as this message does not always work?


You go to a store and see wild Steelhead, you scream from the top of your lungs how unjust this is and how dare they do such thing, but what is the solution other than not serve the fresh salmonoid to customers wanting it?
Yes, there are people out there who don’t care about Steelhead.

Some retailers will continue to serve Steelhead because it fills the void in the market when there is no fresh Salmon, what other alternative is there to the vendor rather than losing what little profit he gets from selling Wild Steelhead.

How about offering an alternative to wild Steelhead?
Farmed Steelhead? This opens another can of worms.

It isn't illegal to protest ANYONE who chooses to sell wild steelehad, either.

If they want to get in on that pie, then they can deal with the heat.

It's perfectly legal for the tribes to sell to brokers, and those brokers to sell it anywhere...just like it's perfectly legal for those of us who know about the plight of wild steelhead to show up and exercise our First Amendment right to free speech, and to share what we know about the poor wild steelhead runs.

Like Dan said, if they choose to sell it, they should at least sell it with the knowledge that it isn't necessarily a very good idea, and that some folks will not take kindly to it.

Fish on...

Todd

Divers,

Semantics aside,we're sort of on the same page.

I understand your point of fresh replacing frozen in retail markets especially restaurants this time of year. But if for some reason that market is taken away, I don’t understand the reasoning of those steelhead being the only fish on the planet not frozen and sent to all parts of the world.

This needs to be nipped in the bud.

ya i know and i have another question, how is the new hatchery going to help build up the numbers of native coho, chinook and steelhead ??

http://www.prlog.org/10411958-local-fish...-northwest.html

Boater the hatchery will help to increase the wild fish getting to the gravel and lesson impacts from hatchery fish by using wild broodstock. The fish will be marked and tagged for collection, utilizing selective fisheries techniques these hatchery fish will be targeted and caught, wild fish will be passed upstream to spawn and help build healthy populations of wild fish. The species produced will not include Coho but will include Chum, Fall Chinook, Spring Chinook, and Winter Steelhead. The Chum will not be targeted in a sport fishery and have a chance to reach the spawning grounds and help bring marine derived nutrients to the the Chehalis which it desperately needs.

A portion of the fish from the hatchery will be released in their natal streams with hopes to bolster some areas that are underutilized and under-escapment. Remote site incubators will also be placed througout the upper watershed to help with Chum rebuilding populations that are either gone or have very very small returns of adults.

The Chehalis Tribe is preparing to raise and release the wildest most natural hatchery reared fish that they possibly can, following all the HSRG recommendations.

genetically speaking that may be so but in reality where has it worked ?, and not to be negative but if i had a river and wanted some advise on how to restore salmon in it the hsrg is the last group i`d call.

I'm curious Boater what have you done for the Chehalis River system or Grays Harbor? Or do you just like to be negative about everyone elses projects and hopes for a future where there are fish in the river for everyone to enjoy.

I will have to agree just a bit with boater on this one...the HSRG's job is not to restore salmon or steelhead, it's job is to come up with the best way to run hatcheries.

If you are going to have a hatchery, than the HSRG recommendations are mostly the way to go...but first you have to decide if you want or need a hatchery, questions that the HSRG does NOT in any way address.

Fish on...

Todd

I think boater's question is valid. Supplementation is an unproven concept (not that it can't work) primarily because the proponents have not had adequate monitoring and evaluation programs to test the hypothesis or because once hatchery programs start, they rarely end, so the response of the natural population is not clear. This leads to a couple of other questions: Are the programs planned to be long-term integrated harvest programs or short-term conservation programs that will be curtailed to monitor the response of the natural populations? Do you have an adequate M & E budget to monitor the populations? Just curious.

"but if i had a river and wanted some advise on how to restore salmon in it the hsrg is the last group i`d call." - boater

Boater's comment also leads to a question. I'm curious boater, since we have not been able to restore salmon anywhere and there is no template to follow, who would you call? The agency generally responsible (NMFS) doesn't seem able to tell you how to do it, just what not to do.

boater's comment are perfectly valid, and it doesn't make any f'n difference what he's done for the Chehalis system.

Boater doesn't have a proven track record of failure following him around.

biolofisher:

Saving grace is "selective netting", in the lower river. Any stocks that are "low" can't be retained.

I hope your hatchery is a huge success.

WDFW doesn't really have a solution to the declining fish runs, in Region 6.....other than the "no word".....NO fall chinook, NO spring chinook, NO wild steelhead, NO chum, NO wild coho(after a certain date). WDFW and QIN needs to get on the same page, on how to increase these stocks......for sure its not the use of "gill nets", or to have 2 commerical groups fighting over Chehalis/Humptulips fish, or to have any kind of netting.....5 days a week.

Accountibility needs to be improved.....how many "wild fish" are taken during a net season......both on the cowboy side but also on the tribal side, and when they are taken......for sure I'd like to know.

Thursday night, in Montasano, starts the fight all over again, NOF.....at least on the salmon side......fight, fight, fight.....Region 6.......grrrrrrrr

Time tells all!!!!!

The QIN doesn't have any real reason to do anything to increase the stocks. They have their own system where they can work on increasing numbers. On the Chehalis they just take advantage and will rape it for as long as they can get away with it.

Thanks Aunty

We are working on a plan. I hope that Chum Salmon will be at the top of everyones list when we meet on Thursday.

Chum must be remembered and protected they are being destroyed and slaughtered during the QIN Coho gill netting season. They caught more than 40% of the forecasted return in 2009 and have been doing it for years as the run declines.

When you take more than 3,000 fish from a run forecasted to be around 11,000 which is still under the escapement goal of 21,000 by 10,000 fish it is unacceptable.

Chum will become listed if this continues and nobody at WDFW wants a listed species on the Coast especially one that isn't of high commercial or sport fishing value. And it will change everything if it happens, you only have to look at the struggles and limitation in the Puget Sound to see the writing on the wall we don't want this.

Chum salmon should be the limiting factor on the schedule the tiering plan is wonderful but we need to protect the Chum from the QIN and if it means more sport restrictions then that will have to be how it is. I'm willing to fight for these fish and I hope I get some support from the Sport fishing groups.

do you think a good first step would be to get ahold of some people and design a weir to put in to keep the hatchery fish out ?

[quote=Castingpearls]The QIN doesn't have any real reason to do anything to increase the stocks. They have their own system where they can work on increasing numbers. On the Chehalis they just take advantage and will rape it for as long as they can get away with it.

you hit it right on the head castingpearls..

Aunty your right also.. the chehalis tribe is going to need a verygood plan when there fish start comming back. The Qins will have a feild day and the chehalis tribe will be bellyacheing about not getting there fair share of there own fish(which i can understand)..Im sure they will be asking for time in the lower chehalis when this happens..

Biolo.. chums are way at the back of what people want to catch.. so i dont think alot of people are going to jump on the (save the chum) wagon..

I don't think the Chehalis Tribe has been bellyaching about how many fish they are alloted in the quota.

The Chum issue is not about the desire to catch them but the desire for them to be protected so that they can do the things that they do to help the other species thrive.

Chum mass spawn in low gradient streams and rivers, they clean gravels and deposit a great deal of marine derived nutrients for the other salmon species to thrive on. Their own offspring will outmigrate at emergence from the gravel and move to the estuary, this means that they have little impact on what food is available for other salmon and steelhead that stay in the river for multiple years specifically Coho, Steelhead and Spring Chinook all species that have a very high demand by sport fishermen and the commercial market.

I hope that helps educate you about why we need to protect Chum it is not so we can catch more it is so that they can reach the gravel and spawn making things better for the whole basin.

i understand what your saying bio about the chum.. but the majority of the people fishing dont and dont care thats what im saying..

no your not whinning now but when your hatchery fish start back and the Qins are haveing a feild day on them and your not the you will be whinning..oh waite a min your are whinning about the Qins everytime you post.. you guys arent anybetter.. you net!!! and you dont share your catch records with wdfw.!!!!!

The catch records are reported to WDFW just like everyone else does it through fish tickets for the commercial fish sold. The WDFW gets their data from the fish tickets from Tribal catches and non-tribal catches that is how the system works so saying that the Chehalis Tribe doesn't report it's catch data is ludicrous. Please get your facts straight.