Let the debate begin.

JOE LEGAL vs. JOSE ILLEGAL

You have two families: "Joe Legal" and "Jose Illegal".
Both families have two parents, two children, and live in California .

Joe Legal works in construction, has a Social Security Number and makes $25.00 per hour with taxes deducted.

Jose Illegal also works in construction, has NO Social Security Number, and gets paid $15.00 cash "under the table".

Ready? Now pay attention...

Joe Legal: $25.00 per hour x 40 hours = $1000.00 per week, or $52,000.00 per year. Now take 30% away for state and federal tax; Joe Legal now has $31,231.00.

Jose Illegal: $15.00 per hour x 40 hours = $600.00 per week, or $31,200.00 per year. Jose Illegal pays no taxes. Jose Illegal now has
$31,200.00.

Joe Legal pays medical and dental insurance with limited coverage for his family at $600.00 per month, or $7,200.00 per year. Joe Legal now
has $24,031.00.

Jose Illegal has full medical and dental coverage through the state and local clinics at a cost of $0.00 per year. Jose Illegal still has $31,200.00.

Joe Legal makes too much money and is not eligible for food stamps or welfare. Joe Legal pays $500.00 per month for food, or $6,000.00 per
year. Joe Legal now has $18,031.00.

Jose Illegal has no documented income and is eligible for food stamps and welfare. Jose Illegal still has $31,200.00.

Joe Legal pays rent of $1,200.00 per month, or $14,400.00 per year. Joe Legal now has $9,631.00.

Jose Illegal receives a $500.00 per month federal rent subsidy. Jose Illegal pays out that $500.00 per month, or $6,000.00 per year. Jose Illegal still has $ 31,200.00.

Joe Legal pays $200.00 per month, or $2,400.00 for insurance. Joe Legal now has $7,231.00.

Jose Illegal says, "We don't need no stinkin' insurance!" and still has $31,200.00.

Joe Legal has to make his $7,231.00 stretch to pay utilities, gasoline, etc.

Jose Illegal has to make his $31,200.00 stretch to pay utilities, gasoline, and what he sends out of the country every month.

Joe Legal now works overtime on Saturdays or gets a part time job after work.

Jose Illegal has nights and weekends off to enjoy with his family.

Joe Legal's and Jose Illegal's children both attend the same school.Joe Legal pays for his children's lunches while Jose Illegal's children get a government sponsored lunch. Jose Illegal's children have an after school ESL
program. Joe Legal's children go home.

Joe Legal and Jose Illegal both enjoy the same police and fire services, but Joe paid for them and Jose did not pay.

Do you get it, now?

If you vote for or support any politician that supports illegal aliens...you are part of the problem!

Lets be real, Jose Illegal is not working a consistent 40 hour a week under the table job. Jose Illegal's living conditions no doubt suck beyond belief and there probably isn't one american in line to take his under the table job. Jose Illegal lives in the shadows, but is probably more than willing to step up to the plate and be a tax paying productive legal worker.

By the way, where did Joe Legal get that insurance for an entire family at $600 a month? I want to check that out.

Interesting take on this,Hmmmmmmmmmm.
SZ

Who is Jose's employer?

WHERE exactly did the myth that illegals get free healthcare, foodstamps, Welfare and subsidized housing come from?

And if "Jose" can... why can't "Joe"?

Can someone... ANYONE provide ANY tangible proof AT ALL of these allegations?

C'mon Hank... if anyone can... surely YOU can.

The same asswipes that claim this are the same that claim that all Native Americans get gazillons in free money from the taxpayers. Hardworking white taxpayers of course. They also like to claim that everyone on welfare is black.

So... it's just as I suspected, it's not ILLEGAL immigrants that get welfare... it's just the scary brown people with Spanish last names that the wingnuts hate so much.

Hank, the reason people take issue with your penchant for C&P is because you so often utilize wingnut hate blogs... peddlin' baseless propaganda... like you did this time.

No question about it that illegal immigrants are a burden on States, especially places like California and Arizona. My point is, that JLH makes it seem so appealing, so why wouldn't the rest of us do it? You don't have to be illegal to earn money under the table and take advantage of Goverment care, just not a life I would want to live, nor would most of the rest of us.

On the other hand I don't like pointing to a specific group of people and marking them as the cause of all of our woes. Kind of reminds me of something the Nazi's did. They may be illegal, but they are not "illegals", they are people, who from my experience, want what we want, a better life for thier families. I can empathize with that, but at the same time, I don't have any problem with enforcing our laws.

So was the research only on illegals, or all immigrants in LA? Makes a difference. And "non-citizen heads of household" does not necessarily equate to "illegal-immigrant heads of household." Just sayin'.

But why does everyone focus on stopping them from coming across the border with fences and such? Why keep persuing the most expensive solution? Start putting employers in jail. Force them to dissolve their business when they're caught hiring illegals. Zero tolerance for hiring undocumented workers. Remove the motivation for them crossing the border: jobs. When someone hires an illegal, they're aiding and abetting a criminal. They should go to jail and lose their business since they've proven they can't run it legally.

"and live in California" so who cares.

Want to enforce the law then jail the employers....or banish them to California.

I still say the US should simply annex Mexico as the 52nd state (after Canada). That would end the illegal border crossings. Mexican-Americans would be US citizens, could work anywhere for anyone, pay their taxes, receive social benefits legally, and then people who bitch and whine about illegals would have to find some other cause to bitch and whine about.

Cheap Tomatoes

THIS HAS GOT TO BE PASSED ALONG TO AS MANY AS POSSIBLE OR WE WILL ALL GO DOWN THE DRAIN BECAUSE A FEW DON'T CARE.

This English teacher has phrased it the best I've seen yet.
Tomatoes and Cheap Labor

CHEAP TOMATOES?
This should make everyone think, be you Democrat, Republican or Independent.

>From a California school teacher - - -


"As you listen to the news about the student protests over illegal immigration, there are some things that you should be aware of:

I am in charge of the English-as-a-second-language department at a large southern California high school which is designated a Title 1 school, meaning that its students average lower socioeconomic and income levels.

Most of the schools you are hearing about, South Gate High, Bell Gardens , Huntington Park , etc., where these students are protesting, are also Title 1 schools.

Title 1 schools are on the free breakfast and free lunch program. When I say free breakfast, I'm not talking a glass of milk and a roll -- but a full breakfast and cereal bar with fruits and juices that would make a Marriott proud. The waste of this food is monumental, with trays and trays of it being dumped in the trash uneaten.

I estimate that well over 50% of these students are obese or at least moderately overweight. About 75% or more DO have cell phones. The school also provides day care centers for the unwed teenage pregnant girls (some as young as 13) so they can attend class without the inconvenience of having to arrange for babysitters or having family watch their kids.

I was ordered to spend $700,000 on my department or risk losing
funding for the upcoming year even though there was little need for anything; my budget was already substantial. I ended up buying new computers for the computer learning center, half of which, one month later, have been carved with graffiti by the appreciative students who obviously feel humbled and grateful to have a free education in America ...

I have had to intervene several times for young and substitute teachers whose classes consist of many illegal immigrant students, here in the country less than 3 months, who raised so much hell with the female teachers, calling them "Putas"(whores) and throwing things, that the teachers were in tears.

Free medical, free education, free food, free day care etc., etc, etc. Is it any wonder they feel entitled to not only be in this country but to demand rights, privileges and entitlements?

To those who want to point out how much these illegal immigrants contribute to our society because they LIKE their gardener and housekeeper and they like to pay less for tomatoes: spend some time in the real world of illegal immigration and see the TRUE costs.

Higher insurance, medical facilities closing, higher medical costs, more crime, lower standards of education in our schools, overcrowding, new diseases. For me, I'll pay more for tomatoes.

Americans, We need to wake up.

It does, however, have everything to do with culture: It involves an American third-world culture that does not value education, that accepts children getting pregnant and dropping out of school by 15 and that refuses to assimilate, and an American culture that has become so weak and worried about "political correctness" that we don't have the will to do anything about it.

If this makes your blood boil, as it did mine, forward this to everyone you know.

CHEAP LABOR? Isn't that what the whole immigration issue is about?

Business doesn't want to pay a decent wage.

Consumers don't want expensive produce.

Government will tell you Americans don't want the jobs.

But the bottom line is cheap labor. The phrase "cheap labor" is a myth, a farce, and a lie. There is no such thing as "cheap labor."

Take, for example, an illegal alien with a wife and five children. He takes a job for $5.00 or 6.00/hour. At that wage, with six dependents, he pays no income tax, yet at the end of the year, if he files an Income Tax Return, he gets an "earned income credit" of up to $3,200 free.

He qualifies for Section 8 housing and subsidized rent.

He qualifies for food stamps.

He qualifies for free (no deductible, no co-pay) health care.

His children get free breakfasts and lunches at school.

He requires bilingual teachers and books.

He qualifies for relief from high energy bills.

If they are, or become, aged, blind or disabled, they qualify for SSI. If qualified for SSI they can qualify for Medicaid. All of this is at (our) taxpayer's expense.

He doesn't worry about car insurance, life insurance, or homeowners insurance.

Taxpayers provide Spanish language signs, bulletins and printed material.

He and his family receive the equivalent of $20.00 to $30.00/hour in benefits.

Working Americans are lucky to have $5.00 or $6..00/hour left after paying their bills and his.



Cheap labor? YEAH RIGHT!

THESE ARE THE QUESTIONS WE SHOULD BE ADDRESSING TO THE CONGRESSIONAL MEMBERS OF EITHER PARTY. AND WHEN THEY LIE TO US AND DON'T DO AS THEY SAY (or what we ask?), WE SHOULD REPLACE THEM .

Nice work. I like the way you used the paste feature after using the copy feature.

"New diseases"...

Want facts?

http://www.snopes.com/politics/immigration/taxes.asp

John Lee... when did you become a wingnut?

Say it ain't so...

What about this is false?

Even the Snopes article tries, it does not debunk most of it.

Do you guys really believe the above is really a bag of lies?

Marz,

It's impossible to know. That's a problem. Because people are so willing to just make stuff up, it renders every statement suspect.

I have no problems with Mexicans who come into the US to live and work peacably. I can't see that they're taking jobs US citizens want. Those who want to come here and make trouble, shoot 'em and feed 'em to the condors. I'm just a liberal who doesn't have the time or money to give fair trials to non-citizens who coincidentally don't have Constitutional rights.

To the extent that we have laws, regulations, and policies that require giving free education, health care, free meals, rent, utility subsidies, and ESL to people who are here illegally, we are stupid for doing so and thereby deserve the consequences. If we didn't have stupid laws, regulations, or policies, then stupid [censored] wouldn't happen.

Sg

Although illegal aliens are not generally eligible to collect public welfare benefits, an illegal alien may receive benefits under the Aid to Families with Dependent Children (AFDC) and Food Stamps programs on behalf of his or her U.S. citizen child. (Any child born in the United States is considered a U.S. citizen, regardless of the parents' immigration status.) A 1997 General Accounting Office (GAO) report determined that in 1995 households headed by illegal aliens received a total of $700 million in AFDC benefits and $430 million in Food Stamps.

There really is a problem with this, it isn't just hype. It isn't just Mexican immigrants, but on the west coast and Texas, mexicans make up a large majority of illegals.

It's true, look it up.

But, but, but, but show me the stats Marz,...........

I want you to do all the work for me Marz,............

Grrrrrrrrr, Fox, grumble, Hannity, gargle, Limbaugh, wingnuts, racists, show me, give me, hand me, teach me, feed me.

I think that about sums up the opposition argument.




Sometimes dude there's no educating those who are unwilling to listen.

The system will break under it's own weight soon enough and most of the dimbulbs here will be there to point the finger once again.

Not my fault,........he did it children

I could understand if I actually listened to / watched / or quoted any of those.

No matter how civil and honest I try to be, some here take more pride throwing me under the bus or pointing an accusing finger at me all while assuming I actually am the opposition.

You nailed it SW, unwilling to listen.

Say there is an immigrant problem, they are chomping at the bit to call you a racist. Disagree with expensive social programs, they assume you hate poor people.

You can tell the difference between those that read about it and those that have been there.

No biggie, I will be the bad guy... never really wanted to be on the bandwagon anyway.