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#602252 - 05/27/10 02:14 PM Re: Gulf Oil Spill-Information Blackout [Re: Hankster]
goharley Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/27/02
Posts: 3276
Loc: U.S. Army
Originally Posted By: Hankster
Would you not agree the long-term effects of oil in a wetland are far more damaging than the temporary lack of saltwater? Are wetlands totally dependent on tidal action or do they have a freshwater source as well?
No, I would not agree. History has shown that Mother Nature can repair herself from a disaster such as this given adequate time. Those wetlands' ecosystem requires both salt and freshwater to survive. It's a chemical balance. Building berms will starve the marsh of the needed salt water, upsetting the balance, thus possibly doing far more damage. Depending on the size of the berms they could quite possibly affect the aerodynamics of the offshore flows. We're talking miles and miles of coastline. LA's coastline is nearly all marshland, so which neighboring state is going to allow their beach be torn up to contribute to LA? Screwing with the coastline in the past has already destroyed much of the marshland in that area which contributed to the destructive force of Katrina.
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#602253 - 05/27/10 02:15 PM Re: Gulf Oil Spill-Information Blackout [Re: ]
Hankster Offline
2-Points

Registered: 01/24/07
Posts: 31892
Loc: Town in the North Bay Area
http://www.2theadvocate.com/news/94640884.html

I've heard too that Obama has now approved these berms.

Now that Obama's on board, does that help you hardlygoes?
_________________________
“Every great cause begins as a movement, becomes a business, and eventually degenerates into a racket.”
-Eric Hoffer

Modern journalism is all about deciding which facts the public shouldn't know because they might reflect badly on Democrats





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#602263 - 05/27/10 02:28 PM Re: Gulf Oil Spill-Information Blackout [Re: Hankster]
4Salt Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/07/00
Posts: 3001
Loc: Lynnwood, WA
Harley owns you Hank.

He maintains his calm demeanor and presents facts...while you babble on with the juvenile name callin'. lame

He wins... you lose... simple as that. wink
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A day late and a dollar short...

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#602269 - 05/27/10 02:37 PM Re: Gulf Oil Spill-Information Blackout [Re: 4Salt]
Hankster Offline
2-Points

Registered: 01/24/07
Posts: 31892
Loc: Town in the North Bay Area
Just following the KK tradition there Salty... wink

I call 'em as I see 'em.
_________________________
“Every great cause begins as a movement, becomes a business, and eventually degenerates into a racket.”
-Eric Hoffer

Modern journalism is all about deciding which facts the public shouldn't know because they might reflect badly on Democrats





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#602273 - 05/27/10 02:43 PM Re: Gulf Oil Spill-Information Blackout [Re: ]
Sky-Guy Offline
The Tide is Changing

Registered: 08/31/00
Posts: 7130
Loc: Everett


Sure there are stories all over the news media about the spill, but how much of it is accurate?

It's only now coming to light that the scope of this disaster is far greater than has been communicated, and it may be twice as big as Valdez.

The original post on this thread was on a story that exposed how much the information getting out of the gulf is being controlled as much as possible by BP with help from our government entities. BP said publicly that no one was being forbidden from viewing the areas affected by the spill, yet in the field reporters and the general public are still being forbidden to access many of the affected areas to document the tragedy. They say one thing and do another without consequence.

Those actions alone put an inexcusable spin on what the general public sees and hears about this disaster.

Perhaps this doesn't matter any more, because now this spill has graduated to the worst environmental disaster in the history of our nation, and no amount of spin or cover up will contain that fact.


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You know something bad is going to happen when you hear..."Hey, hold my beer and watch this"

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#602274 - 05/27/10 02:44 PM Re: Gulf Oil Spill-Information Blackout [Re: Hankster]
Hankster Offline
2-Points

Registered: 01/24/07
Posts: 31892
Loc: Town in the North Bay Area
_________________________
“Every great cause begins as a movement, becomes a business, and eventually degenerates into a racket.”
-Eric Hoffer

Modern journalism is all about deciding which facts the public shouldn't know because they might reflect badly on Democrats





Top
#602276 - 05/27/10 02:45 PM Re: Gulf Oil Spill-Information Blackout [Re: 4Salt]
StinkingWaters Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 12/12/09
Posts: 1032
Loc: Termite Country
Originally Posted By: 4Salt
Harley owns you Hank.

He maintains his calm demeanor and presents facts...while you babble on with the juvenile name callin'. lame

He wins... you lose... simple as that. wink


That's damn funny right there.

Not exactly how I would characterize their exchange there Quatre Sel rofl
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On a long enough timeline the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.

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#602278 - 05/27/10 02:48 PM Re: Gulf Oil Spill-Information Blackout [Re: Sky-Guy]
StinkingWaters Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 12/12/09
Posts: 1032
Loc: Termite Country
Originally Posted By: Sky-Guy


Sure there are stories all over the news media about the spill, but how much of it is accurate?

It's only now coming to light that the scope of this disaster is far greater than has been communicated, and it may be twice as big as Valdez.

The original post on this thread was on a story that exposed how much the information getting out of the gulf is being controlled as much as possible by BP with help from our government entities. BP said publicly that no one was being forbidden from viewing the areas affected by the spill, yet in the field reporters and the general public are still being forbidden to access many of the affected areas to document the tragedy. They say one thing and do another without consequence.

Those actions alone put an inexcusable spin on what the general public sees and hears about this disaster.

Perhaps this doesn't matter any more, because now this spill has graduated to the worst environmental disaster in the history of our nation, and no amount of spin or cover up will contain that fact.




+ many Sky

But how is this cover up any different than any other mega-disaster or major fuk up that's happened in recent history?

You don't think the media is there to actually report do you? wink
_________________________
On a long enough timeline the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.

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#602280 - 05/27/10 02:52 PM Re: Gulf Oil Spill-Information Blackout [Re: StinkingWaters]
4Salt Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/07/00
Posts: 3001
Loc: Lynnwood, WA
You wingnuts sure do circle the wagons and make excuses for one another!

C'mon, really? KK did this... KK did that? You gotta be freakin' kiddin' me! lame

Hey, there's definitely a time and a place for juvenile name callin'! thumbs

But not when one party is presenting a reasonable argument.... and I think you'll find that KK is very respectful of reasonable arguments as well.

The problem is... you right-wing fanatics never present one. cowboy moon
_________________________
A day late and a dollar short...

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#602281 - 05/27/10 02:57 PM Re: Gulf Oil Spill-Information Blackout [Re: 4Salt]
StinkingWaters Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 12/12/09
Posts: 1032
Loc: Termite Country
Originally Posted By: 4Salt


The problem is... us liberaces can't comprehend yours. cowboy moon



Fixed that for ya thumbs
_________________________
On a long enough timeline the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.

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#602282 - 05/27/10 03:00 PM Re: Gulf Oil Spill-Information Blackout [Re: StinkingWaters]
Hankster Offline
2-Points

Registered: 01/24/07
Posts: 31892
Loc: Town in the North Bay Area
rofl

+ more than Salty can count...which is what? Three?
_________________________
“Every great cause begins as a movement, becomes a business, and eventually degenerates into a racket.”
-Eric Hoffer

Modern journalism is all about deciding which facts the public shouldn't know because they might reflect badly on Democrats





Top
#602283 - 05/27/10 03:03 PM Re: Gulf Oil Spill-Information Blackout [Re: Hankster]
goharley Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/27/02
Posts: 3276
Loc: U.S. Army
Quote:
Now that Obama's on board, does that help you hardlygoes?
No.

The Coast Guard has given LA permission to build one berm as a prototype on BP's dime, all other berms will be paid for by state and federal funds. (That's right, Hank, more federal spending. But being a proponent of the berms, you should be okay with that.)

The goal: divert the currents to force the oil onto the barrier islands. Yeah, those islands washed away by Katrina that they're still trying to rebuild with dredging. The sand needed for that operation will go for the berm. What happens when the islands don't get rebuilt? Again, where do they get the sand? They've mentioned getting it from a location only a mile from the islands. What affect will the underwater borrow pits have on erosion of the existing islands? What happens when we change the course of ocean currents? How many scientists have studied and approved of this work? It'll take months just to build one prototype berm. Is the cost/benefit worth it?

But all that doesn't really matter, does it. It's a nice feel-good action to appease the crying public that doesn't undertand rational reality.
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#602287 - 05/27/10 03:14 PM Re: Gulf Oil Spill-Information Blackout [Re: goharley]
Hankster Offline
2-Points

Registered: 01/24/07
Posts: 31892
Loc: Town in the North Bay Area
Originally Posted By: goharley
Quote:
Now that Obama's on board, does that help you hardlygoes?
No.

The Coast Guard has given LA permission to build one berm as a prototype on BP's dime, all other berms will be paid for by state and federal funds. (That's right, Hank, more federal spending. But being a proponent of the berms, you should be okay with that.)

The goal: divert the currents to force the oil onto the barrier islands. Yeah, those islands washed away by Katrina that they're still trying to rebuild with dredging. The sand needed for that operation will go for the berm. What happens when the islands don't get rebuilt? Again, where do they get the sand? They've mentioned getting it from a location only a mile from the islands. What affect will the underwater borrow pits have on erosion of the existing islands? What happens when we change the course of ocean currents? How many scientists have studied and approved of this work? It'll take months just to build one prototype berm. Is the cost/benefit worth it?

But all that doesn't really matter, does it. It's a nice feel-good action to appease the crying public that doesn't undertand rational reality.


Typical libspeak. While they're trying to diminish the immediate impact of oil in wetlands the libs like you want to appoint committees and commissions to study the problem. "We'll get back to you when all avenues have been investigated."
rofl

Did you miss the part of the LA article where Jindal was waiting for approval from the Corps of Engineers so that BP would be charged for the berms?
_________________________
“Every great cause begins as a movement, becomes a business, and eventually degenerates into a racket.”
-Eric Hoffer

Modern journalism is all about deciding which facts the public shouldn't know because they might reflect badly on Democrats





Top
#602289 - 05/27/10 03:23 PM Re: Gulf Oil Spill-Information Blackout [Re: ]
goharley Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/27/02
Posts: 3276
Loc: U.S. Army
Originally Posted By: Chuck S.
Originally Posted By: goharley
History has shown that Mother Nature can repair herself from a disaster such as this given adequate time.


I dont believe that for a minute. In fact I would even say that they really have no friggin idea how bad this really is yet ...
Consider the Ixtoc spill in '79 and the infamous Valdez. The Ixtoc spill lasted almost 10 months, and spewed about 3 million barrels which hit Texas shores. And there are still remnants of the spill in PWS, but both areas have recovered more or less.

Interesting point about the Ixtoc spill, Mexico avoided paying compensation by asserting sovereign immunity. What's the B in BP stand for? wink
_________________________
Tent makers for Christie, 2016.

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#602291 - 05/27/10 03:27 PM Re: Gulf Oil Spill-Information Blackout [Re: goharley]
Hankster Offline
2-Points

Registered: 01/24/07
Posts: 31892
Loc: Town in the North Bay Area
Originally Posted By: goharley


Interesting point about the Ixtoc spill, Mexico avoided paying compensation by asserting sovereign immunity. What's the B in BP stand for? wink


Won't work for them. They have a U.S. headquarters in TX.
_________________________
“Every great cause begins as a movement, becomes a business, and eventually degenerates into a racket.”
-Eric Hoffer

Modern journalism is all about deciding which facts the public shouldn't know because they might reflect badly on Democrats





Top
#602292 - 05/27/10 03:28 PM Re: Gulf Oil Spill-Information Blackout [Re: goharley]
goharley Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/27/02
Posts: 3276
Loc: U.S. Army
Hank, my facts are from today. Jindal hadn't been informed of the CG's decision when the bulletin I read was written.

Yeah, taking action without studying the after-affects is like--oh, I dunno--a Deepwater Horizon accident maybe?
_________________________
Tent makers for Christie, 2016.

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#602296 - 05/27/10 03:31 PM Re: Gulf Oil Spill-Information Blackout [Re: goharley]
goharley Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/27/02
Posts: 3276
Loc: U.S. Army
Originally Posted By: Hankster
Originally Posted By: goharley


Interesting point about the Ixtoc spill, Mexico avoided paying compensation by asserting sovereign immunity. What's the B in BP stand for? wink


Won't work for them. They have a U.S. headquarters in TX.
Mmhmmm. And where was Exxon's HQs in '89, and they finally paid what percentage?


Edited by goharley (05/27/10 03:32 PM)
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#602297 - 05/27/10 03:38 PM Re: Gulf Oil Spill-Information Blackout [Re: goharley]
Hankster Offline
2-Points

Registered: 01/24/07
Posts: 31892
Loc: Town in the North Bay Area
Extracting oil a mile deep is a technology that is new. That brings me back to why did the MMS grant an exclusion to BP? Cozy relationships with Big Oil can't be tolerated if they mean disasters like this occur.

We know the head of MMS has been fired from the position she held since 7/09. More heads should roll as well. Maybe we can continue with Salazar. He talks pretty tough right now but when he was a Senator he voted to expand drilling and grant new leases in the Gulf of Mexico in '06.
_________________________
“Every great cause begins as a movement, becomes a business, and eventually degenerates into a racket.”
-Eric Hoffer

Modern journalism is all about deciding which facts the public shouldn't know because they might reflect badly on Democrats





Top
#602301 - 05/27/10 03:42 PM Re: Gulf Oil Spill-Information Blackout [Re: goharley]
Hankster Offline
2-Points

Registered: 01/24/07
Posts: 31892
Loc: Town in the North Bay Area
Originally Posted By: goharley
Originally Posted By: Hankster
Originally Posted By: goharley


Interesting point about the Ixtoc spill, Mexico avoided paying compensation by asserting sovereign immunity. What's the B in BP stand for? wink


Won't work for them. They have a U.S. headquarters in TX.
Mmhmmm. And where was Exxon's HQs in '89, and they finally paid what percentage?


They paid what was required by law. They paid or will be paying more in civil suits.
_________________________
“Every great cause begins as a movement, becomes a business, and eventually degenerates into a racket.”
-Eric Hoffer

Modern journalism is all about deciding which facts the public shouldn't know because they might reflect badly on Democrats





Top
#602303 - 05/27/10 03:51 PM Re: Gulf Oil Spill-Information Blackout [Re: Hankster]
goharley Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/27/02
Posts: 3276
Loc: U.S. Army
Originally Posted By: Hankster
They paid what was required by law. They paid or will be paying more in civil suits.
Civil suits are done. Supreme Court closed that deal couple of years ago. Exxon drug it out for nearly 20 years and ended up paying mere pennies on the dollar. You don't think BP learned something from that?
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