#608369 - 06/29/10 08:40 PM
Re: State to test gillnet alternatives on Columbia Riv
[Re: Illahee]
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clown flocker
Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 3743
Loc: Water
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No I think they want to appropriate 20 million from the teachers fund to test selective gear in the the select area's.
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There's a sucker born every minute
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#608370 - 06/29/10 08:46 PM
Re: State to test gillnet alternatives on Columbia Riv
[Re: SBD]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 05/22/05
Posts: 3781
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No I think they want to appropriate 20 million from the teachers fund to test selective gear in the the select area's. Why? Those fish are all going to die.
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#608372 - 06/29/10 08:53 PM
Re: State to test gillnet alternatives on Columbia Riv
[Re: Illahee]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 3164
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Grow up Barney.
Im beginning to doubt your sincerity in solving the issue. All you want to do is bitch and lash out at another group that took on harvest reform. You spent a great deal of time trying to derail the effort and get them to work on the dams. Its interesting that, even though we dont know anything official or unofficial about the direction of the fight, you just want to make it personal.
Its clear, you dont like selective gear, based your assumption that more fish will be allocated to the commercial fishery. Its you thats been pushing for safe areas and you got pissed that cca didnt sign on to it, with NSIA. You obviously saw the post by LH about working with CCA and you also saw the article in the Reel News about the authors efforts to get them to work together. We dont know anything official based that information. You are making assumptions. We dont even know if there is enough room in the safe areas for all the boats.
We could speculate that more fish are being planted in the safe areas to compensate commercial boats for any losses, they might incurr in the main stem or to compensate them with more fish from an outside source, to compensate the change over to selective gear.
When you start worrying more about credit than fish counts, its time to grow up.
If NSIA and another organization or two, combined efforts to make that happen, its a win for the fish and for sportfishing. If the efforts of those groups led to that win, then all of those groups will earn further support from their members and from others who will recognize that other issues could be solved by these groups.
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#608377 - 06/29/10 09:14 PM
Re: State to test gillnet alternatives on Columbia Riv
[Re: Fast and Furious]
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BUCK NASTY!!
Registered: 01/26/00
Posts: 6424
Loc: Vancouver, WA
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Its interesting that, even though we dont know anything official or unofficial about the direction of the fight, you just want to make it personal. How can you be so gang busters about a group that doesn't even know what direction they're headed? They riding coat-tails or what? I'm all for selective fishing in SAFE areas... Go CCA and all groups and make it happen! But do me a favor when the commercial fisherman are pulled off the Columbia, keep planting hatchery fish for us!! For some reason I don't think those 2 go hand in hand.... Keith 
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It's time to put the red rubber nose away, clown seasons over.
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#608380 - 06/29/10 09:17 PM
Re: State to test gillnet alternatives on Columbia Riv
[Re: Fast and Furious]
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Three Time Spawner
Registered: 07/01/09
Posts: 1760
Loc: common sense ave.
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Its clear, you dont like selective gear, based your assumption that more fish will be allocated to the commercial fishery.
it`s not an assumption it`s actually why the wdfw is testing selective commercial gear
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#608381 - 06/29/10 09:22 PM
Re: State to test gillnet alternatives on Columbia Riv
[Re: Illahee]
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Juvenile at Sea
Registered: 12/25/09
Posts: 141
Loc: SW WA.
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I haven't heard any suggestion whatsoever from anyone except for a couple of people here that the plan is that the commercial guys will only fish the SAFE areas, and will only use selective gear when they do...no way in hell they or the States will agree to that.
Fish on...
Todd It's the first I've heard of it, this seems more like Aunty just thinking out loud, or is this a major switch in CCA's direction, with regard to CR fish management issues? If it is in fact a position shift, I'm not opposed, it really doesn't matter how fish are harvested in the SAFE Areas, they are by location a selective fishery. I`ve heard this several times since their initiative failed. Also been hearing that they want to have the ocean commercials fish selective, good luck on that. I`m for it though, just can`t imagine how they`d accomplish it with different countries fishing those stocks and all the other interests involved. I think they`re going to bite off more than they can chew with these two ideas. For all you CCA guys, it would be like trying to eat two elephants at once when you couldn`t even get the guts out of the first one. Bill
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#608383 - 06/29/10 09:24 PM
Re: State to test gillnet alternatives on Columbia Riv
[Re: Fast and Furious]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 05/22/05
Posts: 3781
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Grow up Barney.
Im beginning to doubt your sincerity in solving the issue. All you want to do is bitch and lash out at another group that took on harvest reform. You spent a great deal of time trying to derail the effort and get them to work on the dams. Its interesting that, even though we dont know anything official or unofficial about the direction of the fight, you just want to make it personal.
Its clear, you dont like selective gear, based your assumption that more fish will be allocated to the commercial fishery. Its you thats been pushing for safe areas and you got pissed that cca didnt sign on to it, with NSIA. You obviously saw the post by LH about working with CCA and you also saw the article in the Reel News about the authors efforts to get them to work together. We dont know anything official based that information. You are making assumptions. We dont even know if there is enough room in the safe areas for all the boats.
We could speculate that more fish are being planted in the safe areas to compensate commercial boats for any losses, they might incurr in the main stem or to compensate them with more fish from an outside source, to compensate the change over to selective gear.
When you start worrying more about credit than fish counts, its time to grow up.
If NSIA and another organization or two, combined efforts to make that happen, its a win for the fish and for sportfishing. If the efforts of those groups led to that win, then all of those groups will earn further support from their members and from others who will recognize that other issues could be solved by these groups.
Pull your head out Leadeater, I said I would not oppose selective harvest in the SAFE Areas, but many are going to argue, what's the point? But as usual you don't have a point, other than the one on top of your head.
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#608400 - 06/29/10 10:55 PM
Re: State to test gillnet alternatives on Columbia Riv
[Re: Illahee]
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Dick Nipples
Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 28170
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
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Anyone who thinks a higher allocation of available hatchery fish going to the commercial fleet if they find a way to be "more selective" is just an "assumption" clearly has no idea how the seasons are set on the LCR, why the State is gangbusters to do it, or why it should happen at all.
The State...repeatedly...says that the whole point is to have "more access to hatchery fish"...repeatedly.
Where is that "more access" going to come from...the tribes?
I think not.
Fish on...
Todd
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#608414 - 06/29/10 11:22 PM
Re: State to test gillnet alternatives on Columbia Riv
[Re: Todd]
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BUCK NASTY!!
Registered: 01/26/00
Posts: 6424
Loc: Vancouver, WA
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Anyone who thinks a higher allocation of available hatchery fish going to the commercial fleet if they find a way to be "more selective" is just an "assumption" clearly has no idea how the seasons are set on the LCR, why the State is gangbusters to do it, or why it should happen at all.
The State...repeatedly...says that the whole point is to have "more access to hatchery fish"...repeatedly.
Where is that "more access" going to come from...the tribes?
I think not.
Fish on...
Todd They could always plant more fish resulting in more adults returning. Then there will be more to go around...  They're doing it with the upper Columbia steelhead as we speak.... Sure survival conditions are better but so were the hatchery plants for the last 2 years returns.... Keith
_________________________
It's time to put the red rubber nose away, clown seasons over.
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#608416 - 06/29/10 11:25 PM
Re: State to test gillnet alternatives on Columbia Riv
[Re: stlhdr1]
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clown flocker
Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 3743
Loc: Water
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I don't see any indication the tribes are cutting back, there will be fish in the river.
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#608419 - 06/29/10 11:29 PM
Re: State to test gillnet alternatives on Columbia Riv
[Re: Todd]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 3164
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I think its pretty clear, the commercial influence and mindset of the department is still very much alive. The hatchery mgrs arent exactly jumping for joy when less hatchery fish are raised via the cuts to the Toutle coho production and various rivers in the PS. We are lucky to have the commission members we have.
I'll let you work the colville hatchery into the equation.
Other than that, the only increase that I mentioned are safe area fish that are raised from surplus eggs on the cowlitz and lewis for springers. I dont have specifics on coho or other species.
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#608510 - 06/30/10 01:58 PM
Re: State to test gillnet alternatives on Columbia Riv
[Re: boater]
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Dick Nipples
Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 28170
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
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Keith, obstensibly one of the other reasons for this idea is to get the surplus hatchery fish off the spawning grounds...catching more will do that, putting more in will not...
Fish on...
Todd
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Team Flying Super Ditch Pickle
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#608543 - 06/30/10 04:43 PM
Re: State to test gillnet alternatives on Columbia Riv
[Re: Todd]
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Poon it! Poon it! Poon it!
Registered: 08/08/06
Posts: 1721
Loc: Yarrow Point
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I still don't understand the economics here. I get at least some of the math -- yes if cowboys have lower impacts on wild fish, they will get to kill more hatchery fish. Got it.
The part I don't understand why the beloved free market hasn't been enough to push them to go selective already...? Is it a "we all have to go at once" situation?
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The charm of fishing is that it is the pursuit of what is elusive but attainable, a perpetual series of occasions for hope. -John Buchan
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#608549 - 06/30/10 05:01 PM
Re: State to test gillnet alternatives on Columbia Riv
[Re: IrishRogue]
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clown flocker
Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 3743
Loc: Water
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I think the biggest obstacle is these methods were outlawed years ago for being to effective, of course being selective wasn't an issue in 1935.
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#608559 - 06/30/10 05:41 PM
Re: State to test gillnet alternatives on Columbia Riv
[Re: SBD]
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River Nutrients
Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 3164
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The fish wheels were the most hated, but they were up stream of the gillnetters. There were about 165 fish traps in the lower river and they interfered with gillnetting. There were in the about 20 seine operators. Bottom line, they didnt like the competition. They had tribal members arrested. There were various closures and restictions that were not shared by both states. The primary season was April thru August and they passed a law that prevented anyone from fishing from Saturday at 6pm through Sunday night or Monday. The gillnetters didnt like the idea the traps could still easily be used on the off day.
The fishermans Protective union produced a report and talked about their hatred of other gear and their attempts to get rid of them. They had the Feds come out and do a survey of the river for navigatioinal purpose for the navy and then banned all permanent waterfront structures that could affect navigation, about 1890. At one time, they had a count of 1600 gillnet boats on the CR.
The UW has it on their online library.
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#608561 - 06/30/10 06:03 PM
Re: State to test gillnet alternatives on Columbia Riv
[Re: Fast and Furious]
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clown flocker
Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 3743
Loc: Water
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Cannery Pier Hotel in Astoria has a great library of old photo's on the walls, interesting stuff. The pilings that used to support the horse seining operations are still visible when you cross the bridge.
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#608574 - 06/30/10 06:51 PM
Re: State to test gillnet alternatives on Columbia Riv
[Re: IrishRogue]
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Repeat Spawner
Registered: 03/05/00
Posts: 1092
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I still don't understand the economics here. I get at least some of the math -- yes if cowboys have lower impacts on wild fish, they will get to kill more hatchery fish. Got it.
The part I don't understand why the beloved free market hasn't been enough to push them to go selective already...? Is it a "we all have to go at once" situation? I don't think it would be in the picture to issue a fish wheel or seine permit to each gillnet permit holder so it would have to be a number of gillnet permits bundled into one of the seine or fish wheel permit. That''s probably not too palatable to an independent gill netter that thinks he will out fish all the other guys. It would be like telling all the owners of sport fishing boats they had to sell their boat and only go fishing on a charter boat with 30 other people and the fish you caught would be divided equally between every one on board. Too socialistic for the USA.
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#608577 - 06/30/10 07:27 PM
Re: State to test gillnet alternatives on Columbia Riv
[Re: Keta]
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clown flocker
Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 3743
Loc: Water
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IFQ's would fix the problem, but I wouldn't imagine the states would want to touch that one.
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#608606 - 06/30/10 11:19 PM
Re: State to test gillnet alternatives on Columbia Riv
[Re: boater]
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Free Prostate Exams
Registered: 01/06/10
Posts: 1566
Loc: Sequim
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Boater, Great Link, Thank You! I have watched the whole thing. If the staffer at the beginning of the video talked any faster he wouldn't be speaking English. Good to hear the perspectives stated by the various interests. I like many comments, especially at the end about the dams. And earlier about the common perception about selective fisheries. I think I understand how selective methods may not help ESA stocks survive, but, we have to start somewhere.
Edited by Doctor Rick (07/01/10 12:50 AM)
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