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#615159 - 08/08/10 07:13 PM Re: Puget Sound crab management [Re: Larry B]
Smalma Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/25/01
Posts: 2844
Loc: Marysville
Larry B/ Donno-
Dungeness crab is seasonal available in most major cities in the country; both in restaurants and sea food markets as well as speciality markets such as the gulf coast casinos.

It would have been fun to have suggest to the Commission that since the commercial industry was so intent on having the Washington crab available Washingtonians that they should support an ban on exporting the Washington catch out of state - making it more ready available to those Washingtonians who want a crab. There would be an added benefit in reducing the wholesale price making it more affordable to those who live in this State.

Tight lines
Curt

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#615163 - 08/08/10 07:39 PM Re: Puget Sound crab management [Re: Fast and Furious]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 3020
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
Of course it is all market driven and the market place includes Dungeness being caught from California to Alaska and sold to whomever in the world is willing to pay the best price. If the Asian market is willing to pay for cherries shipped by air you can bet they will pay for crab flown on that same airplane. What little bit we are talking about here wouldn't make a ripple in local availability and/or price.

I do recall some comments about crabbers having other jobs and/or participating in other fisheries. Just a quick number crunch. Average commercial catch (2005-2009) in P.S. was 2,766,034 pounds. Divide that by 249 permits and the holder of each permit, on average, would catch about 11,109 pounds. I don't have a current buyer price but one from a couple of years ago was $2.19. Using that you arrive at gross sales of $24,328.71. Guess that explains why some commercial crabbers have purchased more than one permit with the additional 100 pots they can run with that second permit or have a shore job and/or participate in other fisheries.

One crabber bemoaned the fact that he had researched this fishery 5 years ago and decided to plunk down $75K to purchase a permit. Given what was in the wind regarding re-allocation I figure he did not do a very good job of researching or working up a business plan.
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

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#615164 - 08/08/10 07:46 PM Re: Puget Sound crab management [Re: Larry B]
Lucky Louie Offline
Carcass

Registered: 11/30/09
Posts: 2286
Originally Posted By: Larry B
Part of the commercial pitch was that we recreational crabbers, was that we represent only a small portion of the State population and to take away from the commercial catch is to reduce the amount of crab to the rest of the population.

I personally saw Dungeness crab dinners being advertised on a beach billboard in Biloxi MS this past Spring for $19.99 and another CCA member reported seeing it in Florida and confirmed that it was supplied out of Washington.


First off nice talking to you yesterday at lunch break. I suspected that you were Larry B but wasn't 100% sure.
I did a little googling today and the Winn-Dixee retail grocery store that my wife and I visited in Florida when on vacation, has 1439 stores nation wide. The website also states:
Today, Winn-Dixie is one of the largest food retailers in the nation and ranks 340 on the FORTUNE 500® list. The Company operates stores across the Southeastern United States.
They were selling the Dungeness crab caught in WA at 3.99 a pound. Also several restuarants we ate at, also had dungeness crab on their menus.

I also googled WA state population, and the state and treaty commercials catch enough crab on their poorest of seasons for every man, women, and child in the state of WA.

Of course:
1) not everyone eats crab
2) most babies don't eat crab
3) some people can't afford $5.99-$7.99 a pound
4) some people are allergic to shell fish etc....
_________________________
The world will not be destroyed by those that are evil, but by those who watch them without doing anything.- Albert Einstein

No you can’t have my rights---I’m still using them





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#615172 - 08/08/10 08:37 PM Re: Puget Sound crab management [Re: Lucky Louie]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 3020
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
Yup, that was me. Kind of missed the lunch opportunity, didn't we?

Also a pleasure talking with you and Aunty and the several other nasty old elitist recreational crabbers.

Yes, Washington crab is all over the country and, if not the world, at least the Pacific.

Dungys make those southern crab look pretty pathetic although I have figured out how to do the boiled crawdad (mud bug) thing down there as well as shrimp off of the boats. Kind of fun with a picnic group of relatives.

LarryB
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

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#615197 - 08/08/10 10:57 PM Re: Puget Sound crab management [Re: ]
Fog Ducker Offline
Juvenile at Sea

Registered: 11/13/09
Posts: 151
Originally Posted By: AuntyM
I should have worn my waders for this meeting.
I have less and less sympathy for those folks after yesterday's antics.


A.M., I had no idea I was responsible for all the Commercial guys losing their homes and having to explain why daddy didn't come home from the dangerous seas.
I must be an aweful. They should have served cheese instead of coffee.

Ducker!
_________________________
Wishin' good fishin',
Ducker!


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#615203 - 08/08/10 11:17 PM Re: Puget Sound crab management [Re: Fog Ducker]
Plus1 Offline
Smolt

Registered: 10/31/09
Posts: 85
Make sure I got the facts here;
A contention of commercial crabbers want the WF&W Commission to punish 230,000 recreational crabbers for alleged criminal behavior ?

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#615216 - 08/09/10 12:01 AM Re: Puget Sound crab management [Re: Plus1]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 3020
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
The way it was spun was that the recreational crabbing community is SOOO bad that it threatens the resource and the Commission wants to reward them in the face of their bad behavior???

The group that Deputy Chief Cenci described had caught tens of thousands of pounds of crab illegally in 2E (MA 8-1 and 8-2). This was a huge illegal COMMERCIAL operation which LE caught up with by inspecting sales outlets and then tracking their product back through the system - too much crab for the supporting paperwork. Apparently that caused someone to spill enough of the beans to put LE onto the illegal harvesters. Someone had to be purchasing this stuff at a cut rate to get it into the supply line.

Again, although several commercials spoke to having direct knowledge of alleged illegal catches by recreational crabbers to include the one guy who also had a sales outlet and was asked if he wanted to buy a cooler of crab NONE of those folks continued their stories by saying they had called LE to report it. Kind of like fish stories without pictures......
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

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#615244 - 08/09/10 09:35 AM Re: Puget Sound crab management [Re: ]
Waterboy Offline
Returning Adult

Registered: 07/25/06
Posts: 471
So when will the Commission make a decision on the options?

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#615251 - 08/09/10 11:07 AM Re: Puget Sound crab management [Re: ]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 3020
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
Very well put Marsha! Thanks.

During the March 11 meeting Commissioner Jennings suggested several permutations for consideration to include one which would increase the recreational share by up to 50 percent. We are currently allocated roughly 33% of the State's share with the remaining 67% going to the non-tribal commercial fleet. A 50% increase applied to the current recreational target of 33% would take the 33% to 49.5%. Option A has a projected recreational catch of 45% leaving 55% to the commercial fleet.

In short, the immediate impact of Option A would be an extra day on the water and a week-end day to boot with an increase in total catch that is less than what Commissioner Jennings suggested in March. I certainly hope that he will support Option A which fits within his own suggestions.
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

Top
#615297 - 08/09/10 02:37 PM Re: Puget Sound crab management [Re: ]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 3020
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
The bar chart prepared by Mr. Childers and included in his presentation to the Commission on 11 March included little or none of that early period but did include a year or two of the lower annual catch and then reflected the substantial increases beginning in mid 90s.

I know that in area 2E the WDFW had to issue an emergency closure in December or early January 2010 because the commercials had exceeded their allocation. If my memory is correct that overrun was in the neighborhood of 15-20 thousand pounds and certainly contributed to the 300,000# aggregate commercial overrun you have set forth.

Again, the annual commercial license fees going to WDFW is around $63,000 and the excise tax (based on 2,700,00# and a per pound price of $2.19 was about $133,000 for a combined payment of about $196,000. Divide that by the target of 2,700,000 pounds and the contribution is just over $.07 (seven cents) per pound.

Compare that to 236,665 shellfish/P.S. endorsements at $14.50 (that is price less dealer fee) and it is $3,431,642. Of course not all endorsements are full price (kids, seniors) and not all are full season but some are for out of state and are more than the $14.50 so for sake of argument use the $3,431,642 figure. Divide that by the 2005-2009 average annual recreational catch of 1,276,800 pounds and the per pound contribution is $2.69. While those numbers may not be exact they certainly point out the huge disparity in "value" just in terms of license and taxes between the commercial and recreational sectors.

Hence my having included in my comments that ensuring a strong, continuing recreational fishery is right economically for both the WDFW and the State.
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

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#615304 - 08/09/10 02:55 PM Re: Puget Sound crab management [Re: ]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 3020
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
With all of the criticism being tossed out about alleged inaccuracies related to the recreational catch because of compliance issues on the CRC thought I would throw that out especially since the WDFW has fish checkers at major launches during much of the crab season. Don't think it is too much to have those folks tally crab.

Actually, I did that just to see if you were listening!
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

Top
#615371 - 08/09/10 07:22 PM Re: Puget Sound crab management [Re: Larry B]
JohnQ Offline
Spawner

Registered: 09/21/08
Posts: 850
Loc: COF in the Upper Left Hand Cor...
Originally Posted By: Larry B
With all of the criticism being tossed out about alleged inaccuracies related to the recreational catch because of compliance issues on the CRC thought I would throw that out especially since the WDFW has fish checkers at major launches during much of the crab season. Don't think it is too much to have those folks tally crab.

Actually, I did that just to see if you were listening!


Wouldn't want to give WDFW tooooooo big a dose of Common Sense now would we???? Good Job!!!!!
_________________________
Upstanding Member of the Porcupine Social Club, ergo, the Old Prick in the Upper Left Hand Corner.

AuntyM -- What Crab Audit???? Not That POS Senior AssHat Published!!!!

Hey Mr Childers, have you corrected that Scofflaw Spreadsheet Yet?????

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#615400 - 08/09/10 10:40 PM Re: Puget Sound crab management [Re: JohnQ]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 3020
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
Glad I made a comment about crabbing out of the little skiff and handpulling pots as it confirmed to them that there is at least one remaining non-elitist crabber on Puget Sound.

My offer to the Commission to have ride-alongs was, however, sincere as I believe some of them would benefit from participating in this activity. Guess I can make that offer and be certain that we wouldn't run into a rules problem by having a quorum together outside of a public meeting environment (especially if some pesky little critters were to get loose in the skiff).
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

Top
#615432 - 08/10/10 12:31 AM Re: Puget Sound crab management [Re: Smalma]
Doctor Rick Offline
Free Prostate Exams

Registered: 01/06/10
Posts: 1566
Loc: Sequim
Originally Posted By: Smalma
Larry B/ Donno-
Dungeness crab is seasonal available in most major cities in the country; both in restaurants and sea food markets as well as speciality markets such as the gulf coast casinos.

It would have been fun to have suggest to the Commission that since the commercial industry was so intent on having the Washington crab available Washingtonians that they should support an ban on exporting the Washington catch out of state - making it more ready available to those Washingtonians who want a crab. There would be an added benefit in reducing the wholesale price making it more affordable to those who live in this State.

Tight lines
Curt


Are you running for the legislature??

Very funny!

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#615443 - 08/10/10 01:36 AM Re: Puget Sound crab management [Re: Doctor Rick]
Larry B Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 3020
Loc: University Place and Whidbey I...
Very, very funny!
_________________________
Remember to immediately record your catch or you may become the catch!

It's the person who has done nothing who is sure nothing can be done. (Ewing)

Top
#615486 - 08/10/10 10:59 AM Re: Puget Sound crab management [Re: ]
Lucky Louie Offline
Carcass

Registered: 11/30/09
Posts: 2286
Originally Posted By: AuntyM
The stories and testimony we heard from the commercial side were so over embellished, that I suspect these people don't respect the intelligence of the current commissioners and Director Anderson. I expected to hear logical and rational reasons why the policy change was a bad idea, but those folks couldn't come up with any. Perhaps because it does not exist.

Illegal commercial crabbing is just that. It has NO bearing whatsoever on the legal sport crabbing public and to present it as anything else is absurd. LE knows that. Managers know that, and sporties know that. It speaks more to the stranglehold that commercial crabbers have on the industry than anything else. Maybe commercial licensing requirements need to be revamped. The public does NOT owe these people sole access to the resource. The growth in population is the reason we need a new policy. The average catch rate for an individual is not going to increase significantly.

One thing we should have asked managers to provide is a breakdown of endorsements sold from out of the area. West of the mountains and non-resident. The dollars and economic contribution will be much greater for tourists who access the resource. I will inquire at the next advisors meeting.

Besides boating, the resource is accessed by dock, by wading and by diving. I hope Commissioner Jennings reads this and I wish our advisor who is a diver had been there to describe his experience and why he wants Alternative A. Divers also deserve a fairer crab policy.

Anyone who is familiar with the RCW requirements (read during his testimony) by the commercial crabber knows that he deliberately left off the requirement that the department must provide a "quality" recreational fishery and the current policy and managers have not provided one since 2000 IMO.

Alternative A will get us closer to that, and the commercial sector stands to lose about 10% of their allocation in trade. Sounds fair to me. The difference between Alternative A and B to my way of thinking isn't a large increase in harvest, it just improves our access and helps fulfill the "quality" requirment.

Alternative C would be a disaster, as it sends a message to the sportsman/woman that we are not valued by WDFW.

A couple of the commissioners are not in favor of "Alternative A" and putting FAIRNESS back into the PS Crab Policy, but I hope the majority are.

Lastly, the violations that were broken down by Director Anderson were much lower than what I expected to hear, based on managers and LE comments made at the Shelton public meeting. When taken in the larger context of an emphasis patrol, knowing that LE can read body language and target violaters, I think we're doing better than we were 5 years ago. I hope Deputy Chief Mike Cenci understands, it's not a criticism that we believe they are capable of singling out violators on the water or the ramp. It is not. It shows that his officers are well trained and doing a great job under the circumstances with the budget cuts they've had to work with. I hope he continues his dialog with PSA and CCA on how we can all work to promote better compliance in all Washington fisheries.


+1
_________________________
The world will not be destroyed by those that are evil, but by those who watch them without doing anything.- Albert Einstein

No you can’t have my rights---I’m still using them





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