#663513 - 02/16/11 06:32 PM
more on wolves
|
The Rainman
Registered: 03/05/01
Posts: 2347
Loc: elma washington
|
APNewsBreak: Mont. to kill wolves that prey on elk Montana Gov. Brian Schweitzer says the state will defy federal protections for gray wolves and kill packs that have been hurting elk herds. Similar Stories Similar stories: Agencies seek authority to increase wolf killings Agencies seek authority to increase wolf killings BILLINGS, Mont. – Government agencies are seeking broad new authority to ramp up killings and removals of gray wolves in the Northern Rockies and Great Lakes, despite two recent court actions that restored the animal’s endangered status in every state except Alaska and Minnesota. Various proposals would gas pups in their dens, surgically sterilize adult wolves and allow “conservation” or “research” hunts to drive down the predators’ numbers. Once poisoned to near-extermination in the lower 48 states, wolves made a remarkable comeback over the last two decades under protection of the Endangered Species Act. But as packs continue to multiply, their taste for livestock and big game herds coveted by hunters has stoked a rising backlash. Fish and Game will try to kill all wolves on Anchorage base Fish and Game will try to kill all wolves on Anchorage base Encounters with aggressive wolves on Joint Base Elmendorf-Richardson near Anchorage have prompted the Alaska Department of Fish and Game to issue orders to eliminate the animals on the base. Wolves that roam military land aren't ordinary Wolves that roam military land aren't ordinary State and military biologists have been looking to kill off or drastically thin two packs of wolves -- maybe 12 animals in all -- that roam Joint Base Elmendorf-Richardson and around the edges of Eagle River. Wolf aggression is rare in Alaska, but these wolves are different, they say. State wolf plan sparks debate about translocation State wolf plan sparks debate about translocation ABERDEEN – State wildlife officials say there is new evidence of more gray wolves in eastern and northern Washington, a revelation that makes state Rep. Brian Blake think the state needs to let the wolves enter the state from Idaho and British Columbia naturally. The Democrat from Aberdeen says he’s taking a hard line opposing part of the state’s draft wolf-management plan, which authorizes “translocating” wolves that end up thriving in Washington to the coastal areas, specifically the Willapa Hills and Olympic National Park. “There is absolutely no reason for the state to get involved and somehow force the wolves here,” Blake said. Pup could indicate a third wolf pack Pup could indicate a third wolf pack A gray wolf pup recently trapped and radio-collared near the Canadian border in northeast Washington indicates the state might be home to a third breeding wolf pack. A wolf specialist hired by the state Department of Fish and Wildlife caught the 50-pound young wolf earlier this month in northern Pend Oreille County, just south of the Canadian border. Attempts are under way to locate and radio-collar adult wolves in the area, said a department news release. The presence of the pup and photos of other wolves captured on a remote camera in the area indicate there is a pack in the area, said Harriet Allen, who heads the department’s endangered-species section. By MATTHEW BROWN; Associated Press Published: 02/16/11 2:56 pm | Updated: 02/16/11 3:16 pm 0 Comments .BILLINGS, Mont. — Montana Gov. Brian Schweitzer says the state will defy federal protections for gray wolves and kill packs that have been hurting elk herds. Schweitzer also told The Associated Press on Wednesday that he is encouraging livestock owners north of Interstate 90 to shoot wolves that harass their animals. He says state game wardens would stop investigating wolf shootings in that part of the state. Livestock owners in southern Montana already have authority to shoot wolves that harass their animals. The Democratic governor says he is fed up with years of litigation that have kept wolves on the endangered species list even as their population has grown to more than 1,700 across the Northern Rockies. Read more: http://www.thenewstribune.com/2011/02/16/1547799/apnewsbreak-mont-to-kill-wolves.html#ixzz1EAS03M1O
_________________________
don't push the river it flows by itself Don't argue with an idiot; people watching may not be able to tell the difference. FREE PARKER DEATH TO RATS
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#663532 - 02/16/11 07:12 PM
Re: more on wolves
[Re: larryb]
|
River Nutrients
Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7401
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
|
One aspect of ESA, as i understand it, is that a species can't be delisted until the causes of endangerment are removed. Agressive state action against wolves, like Wyoming proposed, plays right into the hands of those who support leaving ESA in place.
Even if the numbers go above a defined level, the causes have to be reigned in. And going out and shooting a bunch of wolves doesn't help the case that we have fixed things.
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#663546 - 02/16/11 07:54 PM
Re: more on wolves
[Re: Carcassman]
|
Reverend Tarpones
Registered: 10/09/02
Posts: 8587
Loc: West Duvall
|
I have mixed feelings on this one. I do think the wolf population is too big and is a problem, but I also think govenors are supposed to follow ALL the laws
_________________________
No huevos no pollo.
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#663549 - 02/16/11 07:59 PM
Re: more on wolves
[Re: Dave Vedder]
|
River Nutrients
Registered: 11/08/06
Posts: 3405
Loc: Island Time
|
[censored] the feds......states rights all the way.
_________________________
"...the pool hall I loved as a kid is now a 7-11..."
If you don't like our prices bring your wife down and we'll dicker.
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#663685 - 02/17/11 12:30 AM
Re: more on wolves
[Re: RowVsWade]
|
I'm not short, I'm 'fun size'
Registered: 12/25/07
Posts: 1511
Loc: Mulletville
|
SSSTFU
_________________________
Rusty Bell
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#663692 - 02/17/11 12:47 AM
Re: more on wolves
[Re: sykofish]
|
Repeat Spawner
Registered: 11/29/04
Posts: 1369
|
I won't miss out this time if there is another season in the lower 48. I consider the two I took in Alaska in '98 among my finest trophies.
_________________________
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#663829 - 02/17/11 02:22 PM
Re: more on wolves
[Re: ]
|
Carcass
Registered: 09/26/06
Posts: 2312
Loc: Where ever Dogfish tells me to...
|
Define "out of control". . . . if that is meaning they are negatively impacting someones income from a public resource then that is more than a little skewed. . . .
Whether that is guides or the ranchers using public land for cheap grazing. .. .. If any thing threatens life or livestock on private land, by all means, shoot to kill, whether it is two legged, four legged or crawls. .. however, if someone is making money off of a public resource, should they really be the ones to control what is "owned" by the PUBLIC as a whole ??
_________________________
Due to a minor mishap, I now have 15# balls. . . ...
Decisions are made by those who show up.
"Shallow men believe in luck. Strong men believe in cause and effect." Ralph Waldo Emerson
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#663875 - 02/17/11 05:16 PM
Re: more on wolves
[Re: FishRanger]
|
Repeat Spawner
Registered: 11/29/04
Posts: 1369
|
RMEF Turns Up Heat on Pro-Wolf Groups MISSOULA, Montana-Pro-wolf groups were admittedly "surprised and disappointed" when the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation publicly challenged their mischaracterizations of the real impacts of wolves in the northern Rockies and are feeling even more heat today. Their recent call for a truce has been met with a scathing letter from RMEF President and CEO David Allen, who says Defenders of Wildlife, Western Wildlife Conservancy and others are party to what may become "one of the worst wildlife management disasters since the destruction of bison herds in the 19th Century." Allen said, "These animal rights groups seem to think that every individual wolf is worth filing another lawsuit to protect, but the decimation of local elk herds is unimportant. What is truly ironic is these folks claim protection of the Canadian gray wolf under the Endangered Species Act. However these wolves are not endangered. There are thousands of them throughout North America. The ESA is being manipulated far beyond its intended purpose." One can find the text of the entire letter on RMEF's website www.RMEF.org. Factual examples cited in Allen's recent letter:
• The Northern Yellowstone elk herd trend count has dropped from some 19,000 elk in 1995 before the introduction of the Canadian Gray wolf to just over 6,000 elk in 2008. At the same time the wolf numbers in this same area are on a steady increase.
• Yellowstone's Madison Firehole elk herd trend count has fallen from 700 to 108.
• The Gallatin Canyon elk herd trend count between Bozeman and Big Sky, Mont., has declined from 1,048 to 338.
• Wolf numbers in Idaho, Montana and Wyoming have far exceeded the original goals of 30 breeding pairs and 300 total wolves. Population estimates now exceed 1,700 wolves. And yet and others want to push the total up to 2,000 to 5,000 wolves.
• Studies show that wolves kill up to 23 elk per wolf from November through April alone or up to 40,000 elk in just six months. A smaller but still significant number are killed from May through October; with total annual elk kills by wolves just for food potentially greater than 50,000 at the present level of wolf population. This accounts for only the elk needed for food, not surplus killing, which are elk killed by wolves and not eaten, which also occurs. The majority of all these kills are not elk that are sick or old.
• Elk calf survival rates where wolves (and bears) are present are extremely low in specific herds, resulting in a survival rate of 10 percent or less-too low to sustain the herd over the long-term. RMEF points out this is a major issue as elk numbers going into the future, where wolves are concentrated, will suffer even greater losses and replacement becomes out of balance.
"Pro-wolf groups like to cite statewide elk numbers because it glosses over the ongoing annihilation of local elk herds," said Allen. "They like to say that elk and wolves evolved together and would coexist now if man would just leave them alone, which completely ignores the fact that this is no longer the Old West and millions of us live here now. Habitat is shrinking at a rapid pace and the wildlife that lives here must be carefully managed. Man must manage wildlife and we have done so very successfully for over a century. We're long past the day when wolf populations can be left unchecked. Right now this is simply a wolf amnesty program and the results are becoming alarming." "Managing wildlife in the courts, as opposed to science and the proven expertise of state conservation agencies, is a recipe for continued disaster," stated Allen "These groups do not want states to manage the wolves as they manage other wildlife including predators. Why? It is curious that Defenders of Wildlife and others now boast about the statewide elk management numbers, which are managed by the states; but they do not trust those same states to manage wolves. Again, one should ask why?" In late February, Allen sent letters to legislators and newspapers across the West calling out Defenders of Wildlife, Western Wildlife Conservancy and others for misleading the public through disingenuous use of current data on wolves and elk. In late March, group representatives accused RMEF of polarizing sportsmen on the wolf issue, and, ironically, to ask for collaboration rather than conflict. In his letter Allen challenged Defenders of Wildlife and the others to meet face to face. " I invite you to come to my office and let's personally resolve this issue for the sake of those responsible hunters and those responsible non-hunters. Enough of the legal maneuvering and posturing, let's resolve this now," Allen said in his letter. "We will collaborate with those who believe in sound wildlife management, not promoting one species over others for what we believe are hidden agendas. There is no one proposing annihilation of the wolves, yet Defenders and others like to act as if such a threat exists. It helps their fundraising efforts but does little to solve the issue. Constantly moving the goal line and ignoring the future consequences are just two reasons we do not collaborate with such groups," Allen added. About the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation: Snowy peaks, dark timber basins and grassy meadows. RMEF is leading an elk country initiative that has conserved or enhanced habitat on over 5.7 million acres-a land area equivalent to a swath three miles wide and stretching along the entire Continental Divide from Canada to Mexico. RMEF also works to open, secure and improve public access for hunting, fishing and other recreation. Get involved at www.rmef.org or 800-CALL ELK. Much like mountain lions, bears or coyotes, I don't want them exterminated, just controlled. My standard visual wolf hugger sig line.
_________________________
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#663888 - 02/17/11 06:15 PM
Re: more on wolves
[Re: seastrike]
|
River Nutrients
Registered: 07/11/04
Posts: 3113
Loc: Bothell, Wa
|
I supported reintroducing wolves into Yellowstone.
Kinda like knowing someday I may hear or see one in Wa.
But there are certian species out there where man is their only preditor with wolves topping that list. Mtn, Wy and Id should be able to set quotas as they see fit.
_________________________
"Government does not solve problems; it subsidizes them." Ronald Reagan
"The trouble with Socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money." Margaret Thatcher.
"How fortunate for governments that the people they administer don't think." Adolf Hitler
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#663909 - 02/17/11 07:33 PM
Re: more on wolves
[Re: BroodBuster]
|
Carcass
Registered: 09/26/06
Posts: 2312
Loc: Where ever Dogfish tells me to...
|
2Many .. . .so because an animal is doing what comes naturally. . .killing to eat. .. you think they should be gut shot to die a miseralble death ? ? ?
I am in TOTAL agreement that problem wolves (those that prey on livestock on private property or endanger humans) should be dealt with quickly and humanely .. . .
_________________________
Due to a minor mishap, I now have 15# balls. . . ...
Decisions are made by those who show up.
"Shallow men believe in luck. Strong men believe in cause and effect." Ralph Waldo Emerson
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#663919 - 02/17/11 08:17 PM
Re: more on wolves
[Re: Salmonella]
|
River Nutrients
Registered: 11/08/06
Posts: 3405
Loc: Island Time
|
Don't go throwing around facts....they muddle a good old emotional, irrational argument.
Wolves need to be managed....preferably by a bullet.
_________________________
"...the pool hall I loved as a kid is now a 7-11..."
If you don't like our prices bring your wife down and we'll dicker.
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#663931 - 02/17/11 09:17 PM
Re: more on wolves
[Re: RowVsWade]
|
Repeat Spawner
Registered: 11/29/04
Posts: 1369
|
I've seen plenty of fishermen condemn the wolf control efforts. Ain't no different than a bunch of San Francisco treehuggers deciding that the north coast of Washington needs more of those cute, loveable, brown eyed sea lions. Hell there's enough food, after all they're only stupid fish right?
_________________________
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#664028 - 02/18/11 02:08 AM
Re: more on wolves
[Re: ]
|
Carcass
Registered: 09/26/06
Posts: 2312
Loc: Where ever Dogfish tells me to...
|
Managing the population through hunting is a tool that I beleive should be used. Wholesale eradication, including gasing pups in the den and poisoning is something I do not support. That goes for death by sponge as well.. . . .
Sal, I may be a bit of a hypocrit as I do support management (by thinning the numbers, not eradication) of seals and sealions where they are causing problems, ie Bonneville Dam, Ballard locks, Westport harbor. . . . .
No, I guess I am not since I support the same with wolves, both species need to be managed in some way, smartly and humanely.
_________________________
Due to a minor mishap, I now have 15# balls. . . ...
Decisions are made by those who show up.
"Shallow men believe in luck. Strong men believe in cause and effect." Ralph Waldo Emerson
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#664659 - 02/21/11 12:42 AM
Re: more on wolves
[Re: ]
|
Registered: 02/02/04
Posts: 2276
Loc: N of Seattle
|
Canadian wolves need to be managed in Canada. We just don't need em. One look at whats happened in Idaho in such a short time tells me by the time we find out its the wrong choice its going to be to late. If I am wrong we can always get a bunch from Idaho when thry run out of prey for them there or figure out how to properly manage them cause they don't have a clue now.
Well on second thought it will be nice for all the granola eatin, yougurt swillin, woolysock and berkanstock hikin, hemp shirt wearin, insense burning, roastin tofu around a fake campfire, trust fund, bushel of pit hair sportin, livin in a 1/2 milion dollar condo downtown while they devote there life to working on projects for the good of nature and bringing the world back in to a harmonious balance skanks to hear a wolf while on there three day trips into the woods.
Fuk the sissy ranchers for complaining about giving just a little back to nature.
When they start selling 15 % of the big game hunting licences they do now fishing will take a hit too. Ever notice when they talk about the value of license sells they lump fishing and hunting together. What the game department needs now is another very expensive problem. Kill em all now and worry about this when we know it is a good idea.
I think for rite now Montana and Idaho aren't so happy about their new warm and fuzzy problem and the cost of it.
_________________________
When Ma Nature decides to make ya her bitch, aint nothin your gonna do about it
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#664668 - 02/21/11 01:28 AM
Re: more on wolves
[Re: Achewter]
|
The Rainman
Registered: 03/05/01
Posts: 2347
Loc: elma washington
|
life trap some and trun them loose to run free in down town seattle maybe a couple bears too
_________________________
don't push the river it flows by itself Don't argue with an idiot; people watching may not be able to tell the difference. FREE PARKER DEATH TO RATS
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#664735 - 02/21/11 02:07 PM
Re: more on wolves
[Re: larryb]
|
BUCK NASTY!!
Registered: 01/26/00
Posts: 6424
Loc: Vancouver, WA
|
I sure hope they don't re-introduce them to the Mt. St. Helens area. The elk herds there are already challenged enough let alone the deer populations that are way down.
Keith
_________________________
It's time to put the red rubber nose away, clown seasons over.
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#664756 - 02/21/11 04:36 PM
Re: more on wolves
[Re: stlhdr1]
|
Registered: 02/02/04
Posts: 2276
Loc: N of Seattle
|
cougar pop is going through the roof and many say the Wolves are already in there. Draw tag only hunting for elk may not be to far away. Unafected by wolf areas will be packed with displaced hunters.Thats Ok just think how neat it will be to hear em. What scares me is that 10 years ago they weren't even on the radar as a problem and they have allready gone to over the counter tags for them.
_________________________
When Ma Nature decides to make ya her bitch, aint nothin your gonna do about it
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#664917 - 02/22/11 03:34 AM
Re: more on wolves
[Re: stlhdr1]
|
River Nutrients
Registered: 11/26/06
Posts: 4358
Loc: South Sound
|
I sure hope they don't re-introduce them to the Mt. St. Helens area. The elk herds there are already challenged enough let alone the deer populations that are way down.
Keith Deer populations way down? How ya know they aren't there already?
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#664919 - 02/22/11 03:51 AM
Re: more on wolves
[Re: FishRanger]
|
River Nutrients
Registered: 11/26/06
Posts: 4358
Loc: South Sound
|
By all means, if the wolves are killing YOUR elk, you must have the right to kill em all. . .. . . .that there is a big part of what is wrong with humanity in my opinion. . . .. .. I am all for a balanced ecosystem and am by no means against a hunting season to help keep the balance, I think the justification that there are less elk to hunt is a pretty shiitty one for eradication of the wolves in general .. ... . Yellowstone has no shortage of wolves. . .. .and it also has no shortage of Elk .. . .seems the missing piece of the equation is the human factor to f@ck things up. . .. OK rant over. . .. time to go take my meds. .. .. It's the same dumfuk attitude that self-proclaimed "sportsmen" share for everything else. Orcas, seals, sealions and eagles are eating "their salmon/steelhead/trout" so let's shoot every last one. Wolves, cougars & coyotes are eating "their" deer, elk & moose, so it's "fvck 'em. kill 'em all." Then we get knuckledragging morons that raise the stars & bars and start up with that chest pounding schit about "State's Raights" as soon as they find themselves confronted by legislation they can't wrap their itty-bitty brains around. It's best to remind yourself that we're dealing with a group of people that don't posses the logic to see past their next mouthful of food. That's why they're dirt poor, living in leaking singlewide trailers in places like Glenoma and have to forage like stray dogs, hand to mouth, on a day-to-day basis. Usually they post on Gaym-poachin', but sometimes they trickle over and end up here.
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#664955 - 02/22/11 11:46 AM
Re: more on wolves
[Re: Irie]
|
River Nutrients
Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7401
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
|
St. Helen's elk are in trouble. There is too many for the habitat. Wolves would help put the herd in balance with the range.
A lot of range managers believe that Yellowstone was being overgrazed/ovebrowsed by elk pre-wolves. They are seeing a real change in the range, with many other resources benefitting (fish, pronghorn).
As to the "lack" of elk availble to hunters in the GYE what I saw when there last year, and read, is that the elk have changed their behavior. Being out in the open all day is not a good idea. They are in smaller herds, in the woods. This was where and how we saw them.
It means that hunting them has become much harder. There are fewer, and they are hiding. It just takes more work to get them.
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#665092 - 02/22/11 06:26 PM
Re: more on wolves
[Re: Carcassman]
|
River Nutrients
Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7401
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
|
Just read a quote from High Country News. Quoting Sportsmen for Fish and Wildlife-Alaska. "Maximum sustained yield for consumptive purposes" in reference to caribou and moose management.
As long as one is clear about one's goals; fine.
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#665133 - 02/22/11 08:21 PM
Re: more on wolves
[Re: Irie]
|
Repeat Spawner
Registered: 11/29/04
Posts: 1369
|
By all means, if the wolves are killing YOUR elk, you must have the right to kill em all. . .. . . .that there is a big part of what is wrong with humanity in my opinion. . . .. .. I am all for a balanced ecosystem and am by no means against a hunting season to help keep the balance, I think the justification that there are less elk to hunt is a pretty shiitty one for eradication of the wolves in general .. ... . Yellowstone has no shortage of wolves. . .. .and it also has no shortage of Elk .. . .seems the missing piece of the equation is the human factor to f@ck things up. . .. OK rant over. . .. time to go take my meds. .. .. It's the same dumfuk attitude that self-proclaimed "sportsmen" share for everything else. Orcas, seals, sealions and eagles are eating "their salmon/steelhead/trout" so let's shoot every last one. Wolves, cougars & coyotes are eating "their" deer, elk & moose, so it's "fvck 'em. kill 'em all." Then we get knuckledragging morons that raise the stars & bars and start up with that chest pounding schit about "State's Raights" as soon as they find themselves confronted by legislation they can't wrap their itty-bitty brains around. It's best to remind yourself that we're dealing with a group of people that don't posses the logic to see past their next mouthful of food. That's why they're dirt poor, living in leaking singlewide trailers in places like Glenoma and have to forage like stray dogs, hand to mouth, on a day-to-day basis. Usually they post on Gaym-poachin', but sometimes they trickle over and end up here. What a surprise. Why in the Hell do you always have to take the extreme? Whether we're talking gun control or any other topic, there is NEVER EVER moderation in any of your comments. You are no different than the extreme right that you have such a burning hatred for. If we as big game hunters or ranchers state that we want to control the population, you immediately twist the argument to ..."Kill all of them" and that is complete horseshitt. I have always suggested that we manage wolves as a game species like mountain lions, a valuable species with worth to both humans and the ecosystem. It would be tragic to lose either to extinction. Factor us human consumers, the natural predators, and ALL wildlife, the generated revenue gained by a controlled hunt and make a livable plan for all. Unless you remove humans and are happy with population crashes of both predator and prey, you cannot make any one species a holy grail, be it elk or wolves. Manage the entire ecosystem with a reasonable sustainable program and keep the national parks an untouched ecosystem. Calculate the reproductive rates of predator and prey and allow a harvestable surplus that doesn't endanger the entire population of either. Irie, You are a model animal planet wildlife biologist, managing with emotion and not hard facts or science. Exactly how California manages it's mountain lion population.
_________________________
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#665250 - 02/23/11 03:43 AM
Re: more on wolves
[Re: Salmonella]
|
Registered: 02/02/04
Posts: 2276
Loc: N of Seattle
|
I am saying Kill em all in Washington for now. Not because I hate wolves but because I fear (fear not know)what will happen. Montana and Idaho seem to have a problem. The population of wolves has had no problem taking hold and growing. I suspect it would be no diffrent here except we have no where near the surplus of animals they once enjoyed. I may never hunt Elk again but It is something I would hate to loose for those who want to do it. Lets face the facts we are here to stay and wildlife must be managed by us. It may very well be possible to sustain a wolf population and a havestable herd of deer and elk in this state. If Idaho and Montana are sucsessful then bring em on. It looks easy to get them established. Getting rid of them if they get out of hand may only cost us the money and enjoyment we get from what we now know as big game hunting in this state and a bunch of money we don't have. Maybe I am misinformed but it isnt even the same animal that was native to these areas. I guess when we run out of wild steelhead we can replace them with wild atlantic salmon. It would be sorta the same thing and we will feel good about seeing fish in the river again even if it means we cant fish for 5, 10 maybe 20 years while we wait for nature to balance out. Hey I thought it would be cool to have turkeys around too. My brother has a house on a little piece of land not to far out of Spokane. When he built it he was hoping to have turkeys on it some day. A few years later he spotted the first one then a year before last he counted over a 120 he could see at one time from his kitchen. Turkey huntin isn't all that special when ya have to check your boots for turkey crap before ya go into the garage to take em off. Now he just hopes wolves like turkey more than his dogs.
_________________________
When Ma Nature decides to make ya her bitch, aint nothin your gonna do about it
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#665977 - 02/25/11 02:29 AM
Re: more on wolves
[Re: AlaskaKid]
|
Registered: 02/02/04
Posts: 2276
Loc: N of Seattle
|
ha ha Google econazi and start reading. funny
The wolves we need for our balanced envioment are gone. Bummer they would have been cool to have around.
I do believe some of the wolves Idaho is dealing with are evil and Bloodthirsty. They are beautiful animals and I would prefer to drive a lot further to see them in their natural habitat.
Neither they or we belong here. We are both invasive species and are not good for the environment. If the Ranchers are having a problem with them I assure you they will cope with it.
then just.......... wow ...............................................I guess
Edited by Achewter (02/25/11 02:30 AM)
_________________________
When Ma Nature decides to make ya her bitch, aint nothin your gonna do about it
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#668106 - 03/07/11 09:53 PM
Re: more on wolves
[Re: ]
|
Registered: 02/02/04
Posts: 2276
Loc: N of Seattle
|
Damn Stam that was cool
_________________________
When Ma Nature decides to make ya her bitch, aint nothin your gonna do about it
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#668116 - 03/07/11 10:21 PM
Re: more on wolves
[Re: Achewter]
|
Juvenile at Sea
Registered: 09/28/06
Posts: 249
Loc: Covington, WA
|
Awesome video!
_________________________
Keep Shootin', when there's lead in the air, there's hope!
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#668171 - 03/08/11 01:20 AM
Re: more on wolves
[Re: ]
|
Carcass
Registered: 09/26/06
Posts: 2312
Loc: Where ever Dogfish tells me to...
|
Wow, those are some BADASS birds ! ! .. . . . I wonder how often the wolf gets the upper hand? . . . in at least one instance the Eagle had backup. .. another F'n eagle !!
Very Cool.. .
EDIT: Oh Yeah. .. .. WANT ! !
Edited by FishRanger (03/08/11 02:45 AM) Edit Reason: I like big birds and I cannot lie. . .. .
_________________________
Due to a minor mishap, I now have 15# balls. . . ...
Decisions are made by those who show up.
"Shallow men believe in luck. Strong men believe in cause and effect." Ralph Waldo Emerson
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#668509 - 03/09/11 01:08 PM
Re: more on wolves
[Re: ]
|
The Beav
Registered: 02/22/09
Posts: 2832
Loc: Oregon Central Coast
|
Crump and the boys should have gotten in on THAT while they were over there! Fukkin bad ass! Wonder how often the eagles get injured?
Now.... the question is, can Andy train his chickens to hunt wolves?
_________________________
[Bleeeeep!], the cup of ignorance in this thread overfloweth . . . Salmo g Truth be told, I've always been a fan of the Beavs. -Dan S.
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#668675 - 03/09/11 09:35 PM
Re: more on wolves
[Re: Twitch]
|
I'm not short, I'm 'fun size'
Registered: 12/25/07
Posts: 1511
Loc: Mulletville
|
If Andy can train those chickens to hunt woofs.....
I will take a dozen.
_________________________
Rusty Bell
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#669110 - 03/11/11 01:08 PM
Re: more on wolves
[Re: ]
|
Spawner
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 517
Loc: Des Moines NOT Seattle
|
About the best vid I think I have ever seen. Love the tag team.
_________________________
Just Fish!
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#669247 - 03/11/11 09:10 PM
Re: more on wolves
[Re: Mystical Legends]
|
Repeat Spawner
Registered: 11/29/04
Posts: 1369
|
I don't watch videos with my ridiculous Hughesnet. I think wolves learn to fear eagles as pups and will instinctively flee from them. That said, I just can't see a 20lb eagle taking down one of these heavyweight moose killers... (My friend on the right is 6' 3")
_________________________
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#669250 - 03/11/11 09:25 PM
Re: more on wolves
[Re: Salmonella]
|
River Nutrients
Registered: 11/08/06
Posts: 3405
Loc: Island Time
|
They looked like coyotes or large fox to me....I doubt any eagle could handle 120bs of pissed off Woof.
_________________________
"...the pool hall I loved as a kid is now a 7-11..."
If you don't like our prices bring your wife down and we'll dicker.
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#669256 - 03/11/11 10:06 PM
Re: more on wolves
[Re: RowVsWade]
|
River Nutrients
Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 13519
|
Cool video Stam.
I like wolves, just like I like most wildlife. As a biologist and (for Art's benefit) a Birkenstock wearin' hippie realist, I know that the survival of both wolves and their prey requires active management. In a wilderness environment lacking humans and our development, the predator-prey relationships between wolves and prey isn't pretty. It consists of sharp booms and busts, each species boom lagging behind the other. In human modified environments, which is just about everywhere, active management results in more stable populations of both the wolves and elk.
I'm not into hunting animals that I don't eat, but just as over-abundant sea lions in the Columbia River need to be controlled, so do certain wolf populations that have expanded like Catholics and Mormans.
The Yellowstone elk population was up to around 16 or 18,000. Wildlife biologists said the range would better support about 6 or 8,000. The reintroduction of wolves has had the desired effect of reducing the elk population and even increasing the health and productivity of the elk population. However, since it's a national park with no human management of wildlife resources supposedly allowed, the wolves will probably over use the elk population, possibly causing it to crash, at which point wolves will crash to, both due to higher natural mortality and also by moving away in search of prey. Then elk will bounce back, and the whole boom and bust will occur again. That is the natural balance - although a wildly dynamic one - with many predator-prey populations. That might be workable in Yellowstone, but it isn't a good wildlife management model on other public lands where other wildlife users - hunters - want a crack at a share of the surplus herd production.
As for ranchers who complain about wolf depredation on cattle that are grazing on public land, I say "screw 'em." They are already being subsidized by me and every other American for their cheap grazing fees. Wildlife depredation is just part of the "rent." Cattle grazing on public land occurs at the expense of reduced wildlife populations, so it is illogical for me to sympathize with natural wildlife predator depredation on their subsidized cattle. They can control wildlife depredation on their private ranch land, however. That's fair.
So to both the "save all the wolves" and "kill all the wolves" crowd, I say F ya' cuz neither of you are very beneficial to the planet.
Sg
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#669259 - 03/11/11 10:12 PM
Re: more on wolves
[Re: Salmo g.]
|
Dick Nipples
Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 28169
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
|
I think there should be a healthy population of wolves where they belong...and healthy populations of deer and elk, where they belong, too.
Even though I hunt, I'm willing to subsume my own interests to accomplish the goal of a well-balanced ecosystem that includes wolves, deer, and elk...and I support the management schemes that will help keep it in balance, if man made issues are the things that push it out of balance.
One thing I don't like, as a hunter, are the guys who say "I want to protect the public, the farmers, and the elk!"...when what they really want to do is shoot a wolf, all the other schit bedamned.
I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting to shoot a wolf, I just prefer if people are honest about it, instead of trying to justify it on some other more palatable position, like they're trying to do someone or something a favor.
Fish on...
Todd
_________________________
Team Flying Super Ditch Pickle
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#669283 - 03/11/11 11:23 PM
Re: more on wolves
[Re: Salmo g.]
|
Repeat Spawner
Registered: 11/29/04
Posts: 1369
|
So to both the "save all the wolves" and "kill all the wolves" crowd, I say F ya' cuz neither of you are very beneficial to the planet.
Sg I wholeheartedly agree. Man is the cancer on this incredible planet that we live on. I love wildlife more than my own species on many levels. Hunting submerges me in their world, I feel like a cat with a freshly killed mouse sometimes, remorsefully admiring the incredible beauty of the creature whose life I have taken. Man will never create such beauty or purity. Funny, I can be so cruel in my desire to kill exceptional specimens of wildlife and at the same time display the compassion to swerve to avoid killing a squirrel on the road. This morning I relocated a garbage raiding fox from a box trap. I could have easily put a .22 slug in his head. Instead I valued the life of a beautiful animal, pulled over on the way to work and watched as he bolted to freedom as I opened the door of the trap, it felt good to spare his life. One thing I don't like, as a hunter, are the guys who say "I want to protect the public, the farmers, and the elk!"...when what they really want to do is shoot a wolf, all the other schit bedamned.
I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting to shoot a wolf, I just prefer if people are honest about it, instead of trying to justify it on some other more palatable position, like they're trying to do someone or something a favor.
Fish on...
Todd I agree with you too Todd. The great predators of this planet are some of it's most valuable treasures. To hunt them to extinction is a sin of epic proportion. Recently I was asked if there was anything I wouldn't hunt. I gave it thought.........The plight of the great African Lion came to mind. A creature whose raw strength and power have struck fear in the hearts of men since the beginning of time. I find them both beautiful and terrifying. Man has stripped their habitat and killed them mercilessly. I think they are on the brink. It would pain me to no end to see them or any other big predator extinct in my lifetime. I'll hunt a species if their population allows a harvest-able surplus, that does not endanger their population as a whole. Selfish? Probably. Hateful? No Way. I worship the days I have afield in the pursuit of big game animals. Things I dreamt of as a child I have lived and shared with my son that were beyond my wildest dreams. No amount of money could buy those moments from me. Most will never ever understand.
_________________________
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#669363 - 03/12/11 02:16 PM
Re: more on wolves
[Re: Salmo g.]
|
It all boils down to this - I'm right, everyone else is wrong, and anyone who disputes this is clearly a dumbfuck.
Registered: 03/07/99
Posts: 17149
Loc: SE Olympia, WA
|
2MANY is obviously some kind of sociopath. That sponge idea is f'n twisted on a BTK serial-killer type level. If you want a wolf dead, then shoot it. But that sponge thing is something that should get YOU shot, not the wolf.
Seek help.
_________________________
She was standin' alone over by the juke box, like she'd something to sell. I said "baby, what's the goin' price?" She told me to go to hell.
Bon Scott - Shot Down in Flames
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#669381 - 03/12/11 04:28 PM
Re: more on wolves
[Re: ]
|
It all boils down to this - I'm right, everyone else is wrong, and anyone who disputes this is clearly a dumbfuck.
Registered: 03/07/99
Posts: 17149
Loc: SE Olympia, WA
|
It doesn't take a city boy to know that sh!t is fu.cked-up and only a twisted individual would even consider doing it. I grew up in Shelton killing everything in sight, not Seattle.
A wolf is just a dumb animal doing what dumb animals do. It's not like they come creeping around with malice trying to screw over some rancher.
_________________________
She was standin' alone over by the juke box, like she'd something to sell. I said "baby, what's the goin' price?" She told me to go to hell.
Bon Scott - Shot Down in Flames
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#669385 - 03/12/11 05:01 PM
Re: more on wolves
[Re: Dan S.]
|
BUCK NASTY!!
Registered: 01/26/00
Posts: 6424
Loc: Vancouver, WA
|
It doesn't take a city boy to know that sh!t is fu.cked-up and only a twisted individual would even consider doing it. I grew up in Shelton killing everything in sight, not Seattle.
A wolf is just a dumb animal doing what dumb animals do. It's not like they come creeping around with malice trying to screw over some rancher.
You sure, rumor was one might blow your house down.... My opinion on the wolves for what it matters.. I just hope like hell they don't release them into the Gifford Pinchot or anywhere near Mt. St. Helens for that matter and if they do then you might as well bring the Grizzly bear back too... Keith
_________________________
It's time to put the red rubber nose away, clown seasons over.
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#669441 - 03/13/11 04:21 AM
Re: more on wolves
[Re: Salmo g.]
|
Registered: 02/02/04
Posts: 2276
Loc: N of Seattle
|
So to both the "save all the wolves" and "kill all the wolves" crowd, I say F ya' cuz neither of you are very beneficial to the planet. Yea I said it but I do agree with what Salmo said above. I am selfish because I like to see a lot of elk around. I also believe I don't deserve to hunt them anymore because I have allowed myself to get to far out of shape to do it properly. I do hope to see my kids do it someday. I don't want all wolves dead. Just every one we can find in Wa and Idaho(not every single wolf in Wa and Id) for a few years until a decent form of managment is found. I have been told that these are not the same wolves that were once in the area. Maybe a few packs of laughing hyenas would be cool to have around too. I hear kids love those things or maybe its the other way around. I do know they make some neat noises to listen to. I am not educated with facts on the this and admit that I may be full of chit on this subject. I just don't think we need to jump up and down and scream whooopy because these thing are spreading like wild fires and have made it to Washington. They have been gone for a long time and the rite ones may be gone for ever. Do we really want to gamble whats left of our natural mule deer population and elk herd on hoping it will all work out. It just seems to me there is no lack of what is needed to get a solid population of wolves set up hear. Do we want to rush it and not be prepared for it while we can sit back and learn from Idaho and Montana at no cost to us. Damn now I need to keep an eye out for a pair of Birkenstocks in case I find myself hanging out with Salmo at the next clam fry.
_________________________
When Ma Nature decides to make ya her bitch, aint nothin your gonna do about it
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#669450 - 03/13/11 12:28 PM
Re: more on wolves
[Re: Achewter]
|
River Nutrients
Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7401
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
|
The "right" ones? Back 15,000 years ago there were no wolves in a lot of WA as glaciers covered a lot of the state. And even more of BC. As conditions change, animals move; plants too.
If you hold the standard of Genetic Purity for wolves and grizzlies then why not elk and fish? Lots of elk were moved around in the 20s and 30s to replenish overhunted herds. Most game from Yellowstone, where they had "too many". There have been thread upon thread here about the spread of hatchery fish genes. If a fish can't trace it's ancestry directly and purely back to the "original" wild fish, should we remove them?
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#669634 - 03/14/11 05:51 AM
Re: more on wolves
[Re: Carcassman]
|
Registered: 02/02/04
Posts: 2276
Loc: N of Seattle
|
Do past mistakes make it ok for new ones. The point isnt that I don't want wolves. I actually would like to see them in Washington if I new it wasn't going to explode into a problem and for more selfish reasons ruin something I enjoyed doing very much and hope that my kids get the chance to do as well. They are not carp. They have come a long way in a short time and we can't just drag some rotenone in a bag behind a boat and clean them out of an area we don't want them. I know think they are coming in a big way. I know believe nothing will be done about it until we have suffered a great loss. I don't have to like it and I am woried about it. My brothers are elk nuts one of them an x wdfw employee that still volunteers with them. The area they have hunted in Idaho for years is now vertualy void of elk but they do hear and see signs of wolves. They are not hunting from roads and plan on 3 to 5 days of packing just to get an animal back to their rigs. I BELIEVE it is a very real and serious problem in Idaho and know a lot of people agree with me.Just how I see it
_________________________
When Ma Nature decides to make ya her bitch, aint nothin your gonna do about it
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#669635 - 03/14/11 05:59 AM
Re: more on wolves
[Re: Achewter]
|
Registered: 02/02/04
Posts: 2276
Loc: N of Seattle
|
Got a hunch we may have a few Grizzlies around too. That is cool with me.
_________________________
When Ma Nature decides to make ya her bitch, aint nothin your gonna do about it
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#669642 - 03/14/11 09:38 AM
Re: more on wolves
[Re: Achewter]
|
River Nutrients
Registered: 07/11/04
Posts: 3113
Loc: Bothell, Wa
|
Got a hunch we may have a few Grizzlies around too. That is cool with me. Yes we do. Seen once N. of Lk. Wenatchee. Actualy not too far from where that Bellevue City Councel member got mauled by a black bear. Since I had to drive by the ranger station I stopped and reported it. They called a couple of days later and thanked me for reporting it. They confirmed it was a Sow with a cub and was indeed a Grizzly! This was on a hike in the area. I asked the ranger if I should consider myself in Grizzly country (I never hang my food) N. of Hwy 2. They told me to consider myself in Grizzly country N. of I-90 A Woodland Caribou, wolvorine and a wolf are now the only specias left on my Wa. bucket list
_________________________
"Government does not solve problems; it subsidizes them." Ronald Reagan
"The trouble with Socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money." Margaret Thatcher.
"How fortunate for governments that the people they administer don't think." Adolf Hitler
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#669653 - 03/14/11 10:45 AM
Re: more on wolves
[Re: BroodBuster]
|
Reverend Tarpones
Registered: 10/09/02
Posts: 8587
Loc: West Duvall
|
I would love to see a wolvorine in the wild. I have seen wolves in B.C. and a wooldand caribou in AK. Do we have any of them in WA?
_________________________
No huevos no pollo.
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#669672 - 03/14/11 01:16 PM
Re: more on wolves
[Re: ]
|
Dick Nipples
Registered: 03/08/99
Posts: 28169
Loc: Seattle, Washington USA
|
Dave, the caribou in Washington are different than the Alaska/Canada caribou, I believe.
The Selkirk herd lives in northwest Idaho/northeast Washington, and in Canada north of those areas...I've never been to see them, but apparently it isn't hard...they know where they are, and you just go and see them...lots of moose up there, too.
Fish on...
Todd
_________________________
Team Flying Super Ditch Pickle
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#669675 - 03/14/11 01:29 PM
Re: more on wolves
[Re: Todd]
|
The Rainman
Registered: 03/05/01
Posts: 2347
Loc: elma washington
|
i saw a wolvorine outside elma 40 some years ago
_________________________
don't push the river it flows by itself Don't argue with an idiot; people watching may not be able to tell the difference. FREE PARKER DEATH TO RATS
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#669688 - 03/14/11 02:45 PM
Re: more on wolves
[Re: larryb]
|
Registered: 02/02/04
Posts: 2276
Loc: N of Seattle
|
The one I saw was south of 90. The third of three bears I saw for the day. Not a huge bear but little ears, a hump and was brown. One of the first two was also brown but not the same color. Didn't seem to move the same either.
Some woodlands around Sullivan Lake. Had a badger scare me so bad once I thought it was a wolvorine. He was in my brothers trap and wasn't to happy about it.
_________________________
When Ma Nature decides to make ya her bitch, aint nothin your gonna do about it
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#669730 - 03/14/11 06:10 PM
Re: more on wolves
[Re: Achewter]
|
Repeat Spawner
Registered: 11/29/04
Posts: 1369
|
_________________________
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#669733 - 03/14/11 06:22 PM
Re: more on wolves
[Re: Salmonella]
|
River Nutrients
Registered: 11/25/01
Posts: 2843
Loc: Marysville
|
Dave - Saw a Wolvorine in the Sauk drainagge in the late 1990s and saw a wolvorine road kill from Whatcom County (near Acme) the year before. There is one seen every once in a while in the North Cascade as well as either Grizzly or their tracks (have seen their tracks but not the bear). I think the wildlife in the wilder portions of the Skagit/Sauk are as much as an attraction for me as the fish.
Tight lines Curt
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#670178 - 03/16/11 01:44 PM
Re: more on wolves
[Re: Smalma]
|
River Nutrients
Registered: 11/08/06
Posts: 3405
Loc: Island Time
|
The WDFW had a camera placed outside a Wolverine den in the Methow or Pasayten a year or two ago. I too would like to see a Wolverine in WA.
_________________________
"...the pool hall I loved as a kid is now a 7-11..."
If you don't like our prices bring your wife down and we'll dicker.
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#670389 - 03/17/11 02:05 AM
Re: more on wolves
[Re: RowVsWade]
|
Ranger Danger
Registered: 02/08/07
Posts: 3098
Loc: AK
|
See if you guys can tell what is going on in this photo. Taken yesterday on a fixed wing flight near the north boundary of Denali National Park.
_________________________
I am still not a cop. EZ Thread Yarn Balls "I don't care how you catch them, as long as you treat them well and with respect." Lani Waller in "A Steelheader's Way."
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#670394 - 03/17/11 02:41 AM
Re: more on wolves
[Re: ColeyG]
|
Spawner
Registered: 12/20/10
Posts: 962
Loc: the moon
|
A pack of wolves chasing down a mountain goat or two. Sweet pick. It took me a while.
Edited by Jgrizzle (03/17/11 02:42 AM)
_________________________
All of my thoughts are sophisticated and complex.
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#670395 - 03/17/11 02:42 AM
Re: more on wolves
[Re: ColeyG]
|
Carcass
Registered: 09/26/06
Posts: 2312
Loc: Where ever Dogfish tells me to...
|
Several wolves have a couple of goats/sheep backed into a corner? ? ?
Now they are working for KK ? ?
_________________________
Due to a minor mishap, I now have 15# balls. . . ...
Decisions are made by those who show up.
"Shallow men believe in luck. Strong men believe in cause and effect." Ralph Waldo Emerson
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#670432 - 03/17/11 11:04 AM
Re: more on wolves
[Re: ]
|
Three Time Spawner
Registered: 11/01/06
Posts: 1563
Loc: Silverdale Wa
|
Nice pic. We saw a pack across from Denali on Sugarloaf hunting some goats four years back. We could have taken one out but would have sent our rams running for the next range. Very cool shot.
_________________________
Never leave a few fish for a lot of fish son.....you just might not find a lot of fish-----Theo
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#670672 - 03/18/11 01:57 AM
Re: more on wolves
[Re: Salmonella]
|
Ranger Danger
Registered: 02/08/07
Posts: 3098
Loc: AK
|
The sheep trap from a few different angles. Two 5-6 y/o Dall sheep rams, cornered on a ledge. The pack was 9 wolves in total. You can see one of them had worked it's way out onto the top of a pretty steep pinnacle. The snow and ice gully below the sheep was too steep to traverse. They were stuck and the whole gang was in a stale mate. I would have like to have seen how it played out.
_________________________
I am still not a cop. EZ Thread Yarn Balls "I don't care how you catch them, as long as you treat them well and with respect." Lani Waller in "A Steelheader's Way."
|
Top
|
|
|
|
#670695 - 03/18/11 02:45 AM
Re: more on wolves
[Re: ColeyG]
|
Registered: 02/02/04
Posts: 2276
Loc: N of Seattle
|
what the hell do those sheep eat? Area looks void of food. They look kinda safe and even if they could get to them would the wolves have the footing needed to take one down. If the sheep try to leave game over.
_________________________
When Ma Nature decides to make ya her bitch, aint nothin your gonna do about it
|
Top
|
|
|
|
|
0 registered (),
984
Guests and
2
Spiders online. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
11498 Members
16 Forums
63770 Topics
645260 Posts
Max Online: 3001 @ 01/28/20 02:48 PM
|
|
|