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#663513 - 02/16/11 06:32 PM more on wolves
larryb Offline
The Rainman

Registered: 03/05/01
Posts: 2347
Loc: elma washington

APNewsBreak: Mont. to kill wolves that prey on elk
Montana Gov. Brian Schweitzer says the state will defy federal protections for gray wolves and kill packs that have been hurting elk herds.

Similar Stories Similar stories:
Agencies seek authority to increase wolf killings

Agencies seek authority to increase wolf killings

BILLINGS, Mont. – Government agencies are seeking broad new authority to ramp up killings and removals of gray wolves in the Northern Rockies and Great Lakes, despite two recent court actions that restored the animal’s endangered status in every state except Alaska and Minnesota.
Various proposals would gas pups in their dens, surgically sterilize adult wolves and allow “conservation” or “research” hunts to drive down the predators’ numbers.
Once poisoned to near-extermination in the lower 48 states, wolves made a remarkable comeback over the last two decades under protection of the Endangered Species Act. But as packs continue to multiply, their taste for livestock and big game herds coveted by hunters has stoked a rising backlash.


Fish and Game will try to kill all wolves on Anchorage base

Fish and Game will try to kill all wolves on Anchorage base

Encounters with aggressive wolves on Joint Base Elmendorf-Richardson near Anchorage have prompted the Alaska Department of Fish and Game to issue orders to eliminate the animals on the base.


Wolves that roam military land aren't ordinary

Wolves that roam military land aren't ordinary

State and military biologists have been looking to kill off or drastically thin two packs of wolves -- maybe 12 animals in all -- that roam Joint Base Elmendorf-Richardson and around the edges of Eagle River. Wolf aggression is rare in Alaska, but these wolves are different, they say.


State wolf plan sparks debate about translocation

State wolf plan sparks debate about translocation

ABERDEEN – State wildlife officials say there is new evidence of more gray wolves in eastern and northern Washington, a revelation that makes state Rep. Brian Blake think the state needs to let the wolves enter the state from Idaho and British Columbia naturally.
The Democrat from Aberdeen says he’s taking a hard line opposing part of the state’s draft wolf-management plan, which authorizes “translocating” wolves that end up thriving in Washington to the coastal areas, specifically the Willapa Hills and Olympic National Park.
“There is absolutely no reason for the state to get involved and somehow force the wolves here,” Blake said.


Pup could indicate a third wolf pack

Pup could indicate a third wolf pack

A gray wolf pup recently trapped and radio-collared near the Canadian border in northeast Washington indicates the state might be home to a third breeding wolf pack.
A wolf specialist hired by the state Department of Fish and Wildlife caught the 50-pound young wolf earlier this month in northern Pend Oreille County, just south of the Canadian border. Attempts are under way to locate and radio-collar adult wolves in the area, said a department news release.
The presence of the pup and photos of other wolves captured on a remote camera in the area indicate there is a pack in the area, said Harriet Allen, who heads the department’s endangered-species section.



By MATTHEW BROWN; Associated Press
Published: 02/16/11 2:56 pm | Updated: 02/16/11 3:16 pm
0 Comments
.BILLINGS, Mont. — Montana Gov. Brian Schweitzer says the state will defy federal protections for gray wolves and kill packs that have been hurting elk herds.

Schweitzer also told The Associated Press on Wednesday that he is encouraging livestock owners north of Interstate 90 to shoot wolves that harass their animals. He says state game wardens would stop investigating wolf shootings in that part of the state.

Livestock owners in southern Montana already have authority to shoot wolves that harass their animals.

The Democratic governor says he is fed up with years of litigation that have kept wolves on the endangered species list even as their population has grown to more than 1,700 across the Northern Rockies.



Read more: http://www.thenewstribune.com/2011/02/16/1547799/apnewsbreak-mont-to-kill-wolves.html#ixzz1EAS03M1O
_________________________
don't push the river it flows by itself
Don't argue with an idiot; people watching may not be able to tell the difference.
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#663532 - 02/16/11 07:12 PM Re: more on wolves [Re: larryb]
Carcassman Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 7401
Loc: Olema,California,Planet Earth
One aspect of ESA, as i understand it, is that a species can't be delisted until the causes of endangerment are removed. Agressive state action against wolves, like Wyoming proposed, plays right into the hands of those who support leaving ESA in place.

Even if the numbers go above a defined level, the causes have to be reigned in. And going out and shooting a bunch of wolves doesn't help the case that we have fixed things.

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#663546 - 02/16/11 07:54 PM Re: more on wolves [Re: Carcassman]
Dave Vedder Offline
Reverend Tarpones

Registered: 10/09/02
Posts: 8587
Loc: West Duvall
I have mixed feelings on this one. I do think the wolf population is too big and is a problem, but I also think govenors are supposed to follow ALL the laws
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No huevos no pollo.

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#663549 - 02/16/11 07:59 PM Re: more on wolves [Re: Dave Vedder]
RowVsWade Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/08/06
Posts: 3405
Loc: Island Time
[censored] the feds......states rights all the way.
_________________________
"...the pool hall I loved as a kid is now a 7-11..."

If you don't like our prices bring your wife down and we'll dicker.

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#663685 - 02/17/11 12:30 AM Re: more on wolves [Re: RowVsWade]
sykofish Offline
I'm not short, I'm 'fun size'

Registered: 12/25/07
Posts: 1511
Loc: Mulletville
SSSTFU
_________________________


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#663692 - 02/17/11 12:47 AM Re: more on wolves [Re: sykofish]
Salmonella Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 11/29/04
Posts: 1369
I won't miss out this time if there is another season in the lower 48.

I consider the two I took in Alaska in '98 among my finest trophies.

_________________________


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#663809 - 02/17/11 01:31 PM Re: more on wolves [Re: Salmonella]
FishRanger Offline
Carcass

Registered: 09/26/06
Posts: 2312
Loc: Where ever Dogfish tells me to...
By all means, if the wolves are killing YOUR elk, you must have the right to kill em all. . .. . . .that there is a big part of what is wrong with humanity in my opinion. . . .. .. I am all for a balanced ecosystem and am by no means against a hunting season to help keep the balance, I think the justification that there are less elk to hunt is a pretty shiitty one for eradication of the wolves in general .. ... . Yellowstone has no shortage of wolves. . .. .and it also has no shortage of Elk .. . .seems the missing piece of the equation is the human factor to f@ck things up. . ..
OK rant over. . .. time to go take my meds. .. .. foul moose
_________________________
Due to a minor mishap, I now have 15# balls. . . ...

Decisions are made by those who show up.

"Shallow men believe in luck. Strong men believe in cause and effect." Ralph Waldo Emerson

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#663821 - 02/17/11 01:53 PM Re: more on wolves [Re: FishRanger]
Coho Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 03/09/99
Posts: 2682
Loc: Muk
I think wolves are a pretty amazing creature..there is a population in the Boundary Waters in Minnesota and the balance of deer and moose seem to be very healthy.

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#663829 - 02/17/11 02:22 PM Re: more on wolves [Re: ]
FishRanger Offline
Carcass

Registered: 09/26/06
Posts: 2312
Loc: Where ever Dogfish tells me to...
Define "out of control". . . . if that is meaning they are negatively impacting someones income from a public resource then that is more than a little skewed. . . .

Whether that is guides or the ranchers using public land for cheap grazing. .. .. If any thing threatens life or livestock on private land, by all means, shoot to kill, whether it is two legged, four legged or crawls. .. however, if someone is making money off of a public resource, should they really be the ones to control what is "owned" by the PUBLIC as a whole ??
_________________________
Due to a minor mishap, I now have 15# balls. . . ...

Decisions are made by those who show up.

"Shallow men believe in luck. Strong men believe in cause and effect." Ralph Waldo Emerson

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#663875 - 02/17/11 05:16 PM Re: more on wolves [Re: FishRanger]
Salmonella Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 11/29/04
Posts: 1369


RMEF Turns Up Heat on Pro-Wolf Groups
MISSOULA, Montana-Pro-wolf groups were admittedly "surprised and disappointed" when the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation publicly challenged their mischaracterizations of the real impacts of wolves in the northern Rockies and are feeling even more heat today. Their recent call for a truce has been met with a scathing letter from RMEF President and CEO David Allen, who says Defenders of Wildlife, Western Wildlife Conservancy and others are party to what may become "one of the worst wildlife management disasters since the destruction of bison herds in the 19th Century."

Allen said, "These animal rights groups seem to think that every individual wolf is worth filing another lawsuit to protect, but the decimation of local elk herds is unimportant. What is truly ironic is these folks claim protection of the Canadian gray wolf under the Endangered Species Act. However these wolves are not endangered. There are thousands of them throughout North America. The ESA is being manipulated far beyond its intended purpose." One can find the text of the entire letter on RMEF's website www.RMEF.org.

Factual examples cited in Allen's recent letter:

• The Northern Yellowstone elk herd trend count has dropped from some 19,000 elk in 1995 before the introduction of the Canadian Gray wolf to just over 6,000 elk in 2008. At the same time the wolf numbers in this same area are on a steady increase.

• Yellowstone's Madison Firehole elk herd trend count has fallen from 700 to 108.

• The Gallatin Canyon elk herd trend count between Bozeman and Big Sky, Mont., has declined from 1,048 to 338.

• Wolf numbers in Idaho, Montana and Wyoming have far exceeded the original goals of 30 breeding pairs and 300 total wolves. Population estimates now exceed 1,700 wolves. And yet and others want to push the total up to 2,000 to 5,000 wolves.

• Studies show that wolves kill up to 23 elk per wolf from November through April alone or up to 40,000 elk in just six months. A smaller but still significant number are killed from May through October; with total annual elk kills by wolves just for food potentially greater than 50,000 at the present level of wolf population. This accounts for only the elk needed for food, not surplus killing, which are elk killed by wolves and not eaten, which also occurs. The majority of all these kills are not elk that are sick or old.

• Elk calf survival rates where wolves (and bears) are present are extremely low in specific herds, resulting in a survival rate of 10 percent or less-too low to sustain the herd over the long-term. RMEF points out this is a major issue as elk numbers going into the future, where wolves are concentrated, will suffer even greater losses and replacement becomes out of balance.



"Pro-wolf groups like to cite statewide elk numbers because it glosses over the ongoing annihilation of local elk herds," said Allen. "They like to say that elk and wolves evolved together and would coexist now if man would just leave them alone, which completely ignores the fact that this is no longer the Old West and millions of us live here now. Habitat is shrinking at a rapid pace and the wildlife that lives here must be carefully managed. Man must manage wildlife and we have done so very successfully for over a century. We're long past the day when wolf populations can be left unchecked. Right now this is simply a wolf amnesty program and the results are becoming alarming."

"Managing wildlife in the courts, as opposed to science and the proven expertise of state conservation agencies, is a recipe for continued disaster," stated Allen "These groups do not want states to manage the wolves as they manage other wildlife including predators. Why? It is curious that Defenders of Wildlife and others now boast about the statewide elk management numbers, which are managed by the states; but they do not trust those same states to manage wolves. Again, one should ask why?"

In late February, Allen sent letters to legislators and newspapers across the West calling out Defenders of Wildlife, Western Wildlife Conservancy and others for misleading the public through disingenuous use of current data on wolves and elk. In late March, group representatives accused RMEF of polarizing sportsmen on the wolf issue, and, ironically, to ask for collaboration rather than conflict.

In his letter Allen challenged Defenders of Wildlife and the others to meet face to face. " I invite you to come to my office and let's personally resolve this issue for the sake of those responsible hunters and those responsible non-hunters. Enough of the legal maneuvering and posturing, let's resolve this now," Allen said in his letter.

"We will collaborate with those who believe in sound wildlife management, not promoting one species over others for what we believe are hidden agendas. There is no one proposing annihilation of the wolves, yet Defenders and others like to act as if such a threat exists. It helps their fundraising efforts but does little to solve the issue. Constantly moving the goal line and ignoring the future consequences are just two reasons we do not collaborate with such groups," Allen added.


About the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation:
Snowy peaks, dark timber basins and grassy meadows. RMEF is leading an elk country initiative that has conserved or enhanced habitat on over 5.7 million acres-a land area equivalent to a swath three miles wide and stretching along the entire Continental Divide from Canada to Mexico. RMEF also works to open, secure and improve public access for hunting, fishing and other recreation. Get involved at www.rmef.org or 800-CALL ELK.






Much like mountain lions, bears or coyotes, I don't want them exterminated, just controlled.

My standard visual wolf hugger sig line.

_________________________


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#663877 - 02/17/11 05:36 PM Re: more on wolves [Re: Salmonella]
seastrike Offline
Hey Man....It's cool...

Registered: 08/18/02
Posts: 4323
Loc: seattle
If man were not around then wolves would be needed. Man is here and expanding. If we want to be able to hunt we do not need wolves.
Once planted you can't control where they go.
I mean if you could control it then I'd have no problem with them in the parks. Problem is they spread out and start new packs.
I think the last thing Washington needs is wolves.
We have a very low density of deer and elk. Bring in the wolves and hunting will get way worse.
The wolves cleared out the area I used to hunt in ID.

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#663888 - 02/17/11 06:15 PM Re: more on wolves [Re: seastrike]
BroodBuster Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 07/11/04
Posts: 3113
Loc: Bothell, Wa
I supported reintroducing wolves into Yellowstone.

Kinda like knowing someday I may hear or see one in Wa.

But there are certian species out there where man is their only preditor with wolves topping that list. Mtn, Wy and Id should be able to set quotas as they see fit.
_________________________
"Government does not solve problems; it subsidizes them." Ronald Reagan

"The trouble with Socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money." Margaret Thatcher.

"How fortunate for governments that the people they administer don't think." Adolf Hitler

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#663909 - 02/17/11 07:33 PM Re: more on wolves [Re: BroodBuster]
FishRanger Offline
Carcass

Registered: 09/26/06
Posts: 2312
Loc: Where ever Dogfish tells me to...
2Many .. . .so because an animal is doing what comes naturally. . .killing to eat. .. you think they should be gut shot to die a miseralble death ? ? ?

I am in TOTAL agreement that problem wolves (those that prey on livestock on private property or endanger humans) should be dealt with quickly and humanely .. . .
_________________________
Due to a minor mishap, I now have 15# balls. . . ...

Decisions are made by those who show up.

"Shallow men believe in luck. Strong men believe in cause and effect." Ralph Waldo Emerson

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#663919 - 02/17/11 08:17 PM Re: more on wolves [Re: Salmonella]
RowVsWade Offline
River Nutrients

Registered: 11/08/06
Posts: 3405
Loc: Island Time
Don't go throwing around facts....they muddle a good old emotional, irrational argument.

Wolves need to be managed....preferably by a bullet.
_________________________
"...the pool hall I loved as a kid is now a 7-11..."

If you don't like our prices bring your wife down and we'll dicker.

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#663931 - 02/17/11 09:17 PM Re: more on wolves [Re: RowVsWade]
Salmonella Offline
Repeat Spawner

Registered: 11/29/04
Posts: 1369

I've seen plenty of fishermen condemn the wolf control efforts.

Ain't no different than a bunch of San Francisco treehuggers deciding that the north coast of Washington needs more of those cute, loveable, brown eyed sea lions.
Hell there's enough food, after all they're only stupid fish right?

wink
_________________________


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#664028 - 02/18/11 02:08 AM Re: more on wolves [Re: ]
FishRanger Offline
Carcass

Registered: 09/26/06
Posts: 2312
Loc: Where ever Dogfish tells me to...
Managing the population through hunting is a tool that I beleive should be used.
Wholesale eradication, including gasing pups in the den and poisoning is something I do not support. That goes for death by sponge as well.. . . .


Sal, I may be a bit of a hypocrit as I do support management (by thinning the numbers, not eradication) of seals and sealions where they are causing problems, ie Bonneville Dam, Ballard locks, Westport harbor. . . . .

No, I guess I am not since I support the same with wolves, both species need to be managed in some way, smartly and humanely.
_________________________
Due to a minor mishap, I now have 15# balls. . . ...

Decisions are made by those who show up.

"Shallow men believe in luck. Strong men believe in cause and effect." Ralph Waldo Emerson

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#664659 - 02/21/11 12:42 AM Re: more on wolves [Re: ]
Achewter Offline


Registered: 02/02/04
Posts: 2276
Loc: N of Seattle
Canadian wolves need to be managed in Canada. We just don't need em.
One look at whats happened in Idaho in such a short time tells me by the time we find out its the wrong choice its going to be to late. If I am wrong we can always get a bunch from Idaho when thry run out of prey for them there or figure out how to properly manage them cause they don't have a clue now.

Well on second thought it will be nice for all the granola eatin, yougurt swillin, woolysock and berkanstock hikin, hemp shirt wearin, insense burning, roastin tofu around a fake campfire, trust fund, bushel of pit hair sportin, livin in a 1/2 milion dollar condo downtown while they devote there life to working on projects for the good of nature and bringing the world back in to a harmonious balance skanks to hear a wolf while on there three day trips into the woods.

Fuk the sissy ranchers for complaining about giving just a little back to nature.

When they start selling 15 % of the big game hunting licences they do now fishing will take a hit too. Ever notice when they talk about the value of license sells they lump fishing and hunting together. What the game department needs now is another very expensive problem. Kill em all now and worry about this when we know it is a good idea.

I think for rite now Montana and Idaho aren't so happy about their new warm and fuzzy problem and the cost of it.
_________________________
When Ma Nature decides to make ya her bitch, aint nothin your gonna do about it

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#664668 - 02/21/11 01:28 AM Re: more on wolves [Re: Achewter]
larryb Offline
The Rainman

Registered: 03/05/01
Posts: 2347
Loc: elma washington
life trap some and trun them loose to run free in down town seattle maybe a couple bears too
_________________________
don't push the river it flows by itself
Don't argue with an idiot; people watching may not be able to tell the difference.
FREE PARKER DEATH TO RATS

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#664735 - 02/21/11 02:07 PM Re: more on wolves [Re: larryb]
stlhdr1 Offline
BUCK NASTY!!

Registered: 01/26/00
Posts: 6424
Loc: Vancouver, WA
I sure hope they don't re-introduce them to the Mt. St. Helens area. The elk herds there are already challenged enough let alone the deer populations that are way down.

Keith
_________________________
It's time to put the red rubber nose away, clown seasons over.


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#664756 - 02/21/11 04:36 PM Re: more on wolves [Re: stlhdr1]
Achewter Offline


Registered: 02/02/04
Posts: 2276
Loc: N of Seattle
cougar pop is going through the roof and many say the Wolves are already in there. Draw tag only hunting for elk may not be to far away.
Unafected by wolf areas will be packed with displaced hunters.Thats Ok just think how neat it will be to hear em.
What scares me is that 10 years ago they weren't even on the radar as a problem and they have allready gone to over the counter tags for them.
_________________________
When Ma Nature decides to make ya her bitch, aint nothin your gonna do about it

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