Everytime I go to rattlesnake, I see a least a few groups (always seems to be groups) of people power baiting. For those who speak english, I've filled them in on the regs a few times, but it seems to do no good. Anyone know any pratical way to address this? I've seen the game warden out a few years ago, but have not seen any enforcement this year.

What really torqued me off was some punk kid launching his heavy sinker toward my canoe (well away from shore) with my wife and 2 small children on board. He kinda chuckeled to his friends that he almost got us.

You can report poachers at WDFW\'s website .

Power bait??? Funny how certain groups use that. I remember a discussion on power bait using fishermen a couple of weeks ago and you were defending them. Funny how things change.

This problem of illegal fishing has also been discussed on another board and the generally agreed to method of chasing them off was to tell them the warden has been coming up there frequently and ticketing people.

Or you can take a more direct route and chase them off yourself.

Power Bait, worms, etc are fine when used legally. There is a time and place for everything - you seem to be looking for a double standard that just isn't there...

I also have no problem filling folks in on the rules and do it often, but approaching a group of 5 or more guys who are usually drinking and trying to be a tough guy is usually not a smart move - especially when my family is with me. Again, I was looking for practical advice...

Well then... if you aren't up to it, have someone else go over and tell them.

PhishPhreak

Wow maybe I should clarify. I was just telling a story about the nature of some of the individuals that hang around that lake.

I did not approach any one; they stood in front of my truck and stopped me.

I was not being a tough guy, I WAS ATTACKED at that lake when my family was with me.

My post was not any advice, just a story of what I have seen happen at that lake because of all the people that party on the road side and fish off of the rocks.

If you have the opportunity get vehicle license number's and physical description's, then go to the nearest phone and report them. Never and I mean never confront the perp's yourself, your not trained to do this and it's not your job. There is never any reason to put you or your family in danger. The smart thing is to just leave. Take Care.

License numbers and people descriptions are a good thing. You can input all of that info on the WDFW Poachers page. I have linked it in my first post above.

Lead Thrower - I was not meaning to refer to your incident, but rather bill's reference to being a tough guy and chasing them off.

Bill, as I said, I do often fill folks in on the regs and warn them of the price of getting caught. As for confronting large groups of drunk punks and 'chasing them off', well, how about if you give us all a tough guy lesson next weekend at the lake. That is something that would be fun to watch!

Carl, I've been using that site, but rarely have a chance to get any info that would be useful (lisence plate #'s ect). I'll start bringing my cell phone more though.

PP,

I act the same way I give advice. I've got no problems chasing law breakers off. Sometimes it gives my fishing buddies the "willies"....

Some advice I'd give you is to walk the talk... don't talk the walk. I feel if more people did this then we'd have less problems in society today.

As I said before bill, show me the money!!

I'll be at rattlesnake this weekend, let's pick a time and you can show me how to chase off a group of poachers.

Again, I approach poachers all the time and explain to them the regs - but I'm not dumb enough to physically threaten a large group of drunk rednecks. I'll leave that to you. Put your money where your mouth is. This should be fun!!

We can all meet up there and kick some poacher A**. Or at least out number them. Then have some lunch.

That's what I was just thinking. Kinda like the 'flotilla' they do on the river board. Maybe have a little BBQ and friendly fishing contest.

The only reason these guys keep coming back is because there is not enough legal or 'peer' pressure for them to worry about. It'd be cool to see a group of us sit down next to them and fill them in on the regs. Maybe offer them a spinner or 2 or even a couple flies that they can cast with using a bobber. Then sit with them until they either leave, or start fishing legally.

It seems that every site that I go to this subject always comes up. Us/We complain about the problem but it just won't go away. It seems that when people get their license's they don't read the regs or they don't know where they are fishing or just don't care. You can't have a game warden stationed at every lake to catch the poachers.

I have an idea,why don't we station a game warden at the gate and check everyone who comes thru that wants to fish be checked out. That way you could keep all of the poachers out. But thats not the American way. You could post all of the signs that you can, but lets face it some people just don't care. I think that I've said enough.

PhishPhreak

AAAAAAAhhhhhhhh

My mistake, thanks for the clarification.

PP,

You're a mouthy little weenie. Grow up one of these days and stop thinking the sun rises and sets on you.

Nope... this isn't a personal attack. Just giving you a little advice. Hope you approach your Big Brother task with more maturity. Kids need a good role model.

bill,
You voluntarily came into this discussion and tried to start a pi$$ing match with me. If you can't back it up, get lost. If you can't show us how you chase off a group of poachers, then stop acting all tough like you can. I really don't care if you don't like me or not. I'm not here to impress anyone. But if you can't leave well enough alone and want to keep up the pi$$ing match, then let's just meet and get it over with. But as you've shown, you don't have what it takes to back it up, and you just seem interested in causing trouble.

My appologies go out to those who actually try to use this site for good information. Unfortuneately, some like to think of this as their own personal jerry springer show or something...

Now step up or shut up.

Everybody meet at Rattlesnake Saturday morning? Not to fight with each other but to address the problem at hand, poachers.

I can do early morning - but will be out of town for the rest of the day. Only problem is that the party crowd who does 90% of the poaching comes out later in the day. Most of the poachers I see early in the morning are the non-english speaking kind.

I got room for 1 in my boat.

For those of you not familiar with this lake:

hardware suggestions - small flat fish or hot shots work well in a variety of colors. Very small Dick Nite and Needle fish spoons work will too. I'd be careful using 'pop gear' at all - the stumps will eat them up if you stray from the middle of the lake...

flies - most folks are doing well with small olive wooly buggers. Dries should be dark and very small - but I haven't really tried them too much. Also try chiromonids (sp?), carey specials, damsels (nymphs). I'm sure some others may chime in with other suggestions. Also, be careful of the stumps if you use heavy sink tips\lines.

And finally, powerbait work awesome in this lake!! Kidding!

Single barbless hooks!

-Chad

Again license number's , vehicle description's, and physical description's. Call them in, if enough calls are made, action will be taken. Start writing the newspaper's they have columns for these thing's. The more noise you make will force action to be taken by the appropriate law enforcement official's. Sound'd like you have several violation's not just poaching, drinking and driving come's to mind. Minor in possion, minor in consumption, and etc. be creative there's all kind's of violation's happening here. So before taking the law into your own hand's start making noise, the squeaky wheel theory. I sure don't want anyone to end up in jail or worse yet get hurt. So put a campaign together and end all of this squabbeling amongst us. We are the sportsman of this state and we will be heard. Take Care.

I don't know why you always want to meet some place to stop the poachers. You and I know that this will never work. You might scare them off one time but they will always come back. I think until we get better inforcement,it would be in your best interest to just turn away and forget about it.

This is just like us all cleaning up the rivers and lakes. You clean it up on Monday and on Tuesday it's dirty again. Some people just DON'T CARE. It's like poaching THEY don't care.

They think that when they get a license that they can fish where ever they want.

Well I'll get of my soap box now and get into something else.

Jim - I agree that it gets very discouraging when you can't seem to make an impact. But I believe you have to take out the trash once in an while, or it will just start overflowing. This would apply to litter as well as poachers. Picking up a bag of litter means just that much less litter for the next guy to pick up. Yes, some jerks will come along and trash the place again, but if we just gave up, the place would start looking like a garbage dump instead of just a messy fishing spot. And if we just decide not to try to educate, report, and stand up to the poachers (and litterers), then the problem will DEFINATELY get worse. Many of these kids and foreigners either just don't know the rules, or just don't think anyone really cares. Sportsmen need to step up and address both of the issues. For the group that just wants to cause trouble and do whatever the heck they want - leave them to the law enforcement(and do your part to help report problems).

Now I'll get off my slippery soap box

Maybe what you guys could do is have one of you dress up as a game warden and four or five others can pose as poachers. Then have the game warden write fake tickets. The posing poachers can ham it up and make a lot of noise about the $100 ticket they just got. I don't know about the legality of this, but I bet if you guys pulled it off a couple of weekends in a row, word would get around about the new strict game warden, and it might thin out a few of the poachers. Just a crazy idea.

Pelican and PP: I agree with both of your most recent posts. Nicely said. (PP, I posted about the same issue, which I think you responded to, on the WA Fly Fishing forum earlier this week.) Anyway, I'm willing to help in any way I can. I will continue to inform poachers of the rules, and I plan on taking my cell phone with me, along with the poacher hotline number, from now on. When you're floating around on the lake and the poachers are far away from their vehicles, it's tough to get a license plate and vehicle description, but perhaps more phone calls to WDFW reporting the poaching activity will bring more and more enforcement to the lake. One can hope, anyway...

Thanks HSL. Yes, I thought the timing on the other site was pretty good

Another thought I had was to bring my video camera along. From the middle of the lake, my digital zoom could easily put a face to a jar of powerbait and a stringer full of fish - without them even knowing it. Of course it would also be fun to help them 'celebrate' that nice big triploid they caught by catching it on film. You should hear the cheers when these guys get a big one. They'd never think twice about someone taping the event...

Some of these guys are so dumb, they actually set up the old forked stick and sit back on the rocks and drink beer. Gee - do you think they are using bait? Who knows - maybe some of them have a bobber on and are still fishing chironomids

My turn as I have been way to quiet. Bill will stop poachers. He is to good to fight anyone.
So lets just go back to where this started and just call in the poachers , be rude and tell them to get the hell out of there. It's easy to do I've done it many times.

Also we could allways just send Bone Head opps
I mean Micro Brew to bull sh___ them away

Now TM, be kind. BTW, how many trout have you brought to the boat during your last few trips?

The poaching is bad on RL and just as bad on the Snoqualmie Forks. Does anyone know what WDFW does with the poaching reports, or are they just a waste of time? Seems like hefty fines, $1k - $2K plus no license for 5 years, gear confiscation would help. A few tickets in the right spot, and word would get out quickly.

PP,

I'm kinda dense. What do you mean by " But if you can't leave well enough alone and want to keep up the pi$$ing match, then let's just meet and get it over with.

If you mean what I think you mean, then you're not as bright as I thought you were. Don't you know stuff like that (if you meant what I think you did) will get you bounced out of Big Brothers. That's not good role model stuff.

Shame you don't have the maturity to go with your intelligence... even at the new lower level I have you at.

I 'spects you're around 30 years of age and think you have all the answers. Fifteen years from now you'll have a clearer picture.

Have a nice day, PP, and don't get too stirred up.

Back to the problem of persistent illegal fishing I'm reminded of the persistent problem
at Lenice and Nunnally a few years back. One group of 6-8 wetbacks in particular were there
nearly every day powerbaiting openly all day long despite the sign at the parking lot in Spanish. Confronting them resulted in blank stares.
Several guys cell phoned for enforcement, but as usual no one ever came.
Then one afternoon as they poached at will, their beat up Van developed four flat tires.
They never returned and nowadays nearly all poaching on these waters is done at night,
which I hope is less effective?

bill - can we just move on now before we embarass ourselves any further?

I appologize for letting this get out of hand and not just ignoring the jabs in your initial post. I welcome your opinions, wether the same or different than mine. And I will make every attempt to be respectful when I feel the need to share my differing opinions with you and others.

Please forgive me for not handling this better (bill, et all)

Fishnfella - I like that approach - fighting fire with fire (although I'd never condone vandalism like that - I surely wouldn't shed a tear if I heard about it happening...)

PP,

Yeah... let's end it. It's time.

Next time, and I'm not trying to get a dig in here, bait fishers are "dissed", please don't assume that all bait fishers are created equal. Some are slobby and others are not. Also I wouldn't expect baiters who subscribe to this board are the ones being complained about.

Also, not all fly fishers are annoying.... but I have a hard time accepting the ones who think that throwing $$$ at the sport is the way to go.

Some of us fly fishers on this board, FishinFellaS, the highly esteemed Trout Master, MB and myself have evolved through the various methods of angling. We've done the handlining, the bait fishing, the hardware and eventually tried fly fishing. Also we've gone through the wanting to catch (and keep) the most fish, the biggest fish, etc., to where now when we do keep fish we're selective about it.

What I do now when I'm out fishing is probably similar to you. I check around to see what the other fisherpeople are doing... hopefully they're paying attention to the rules... if not... they can expect a visit from me. If it's because they don't know, then I take a lot different approach from when I meet someone who doesn't care. Yeah, I do chase people off of lakes. Last one was last year on an unnamed eastern WA lake. Three guys showed up to baitfish a selective rules lake. No, I didn't ignore them, or figure I'd call a warden, I walked up, informed them of the rules and that what they planned on doing wasn't legal there and"suggested" they try a nearby lake which was open to any method.

Only person not following the rules I ever "passed" on talking to was a crippled guy in a wheelchair using a spinning rod and bobber on Rocky Ford creek. It only became legal recently to fish RF that way. I figured if he wanted to fish, given his condition, then I wasn't going bother him.

yours in fishing,

Bill W

The Zen speaks only truth, as he is one who has evolved with wisdom.

I and most other ardent flyfishermen DID evolve to primarily C&R flyfishing after
using other methods. But we oldies had the luxury of having well stocked lakes,
uncorrupted by illegally stocked spiney rays,millfoil,and unpressured by too many
fishermen with which to evolve.Those were the days my friend.

Today it is different. There are only limited rich lakes capable of producing quality
fishing. Most of them are mismanaged in order to provide catch and kill 8" trout for
the majority of casual anglers to drag out with powerbait and a $5 spinning rod stiff as a broomstick.
I feel we don't have the luxury of mismanaging these lakes by overplanting and overharvesting
(take for example Blue and Park with 200,000 and 150,000 fish planted yearly) before the
resource is degraded and ruined permanently. Add to this our reluctance to regulate disruptive
and distructive jet sledding and water skiing as well as pollution from shorline development
and you will start to understand why those of us who love the SPORT of fishing have some
serious problems with how fast you baiters are evolving to a method(s) of fishing which
will preserve fishing for the future.
Ban Powerbait and get off your asses and learn to C&R flyfish or barbless lure fish.
Be more vocal with our F&G about wanting more than an 8' trout to eat. They think they
are doing the right thing untill you tell them differently.
Trout fishing should be about protecting and preserving the lake and the fish #1, about SPORT #2, and about taking and eating fish #3 if at all.

Poachers and illegal fishermen are stealing from you and should be treated just the same as you
would treat someone who has entered your garage to steal your tools for example.
Spend the time and effort to either chase them off or get their liscense plate and file a citizens
arrest if F&G fails to act.
It's yours to protect and preserve.....or to loose! There is no in between.

Amen to all of you. Let's just stick together and each do our part to educate / report violators with the ultimate goal of provding quality fishing opportunities for all.

Zen, you forgot shotgun fishing. Yes, at some time in my life I have tried them all, like FF the best but have nothing against drowning a worm or maggot.

micro brew,
I knew I picked the right guy to share a secret with.



I looked at this thread because I ran into a couple of guys taking fish from a c/r river that upset me.I am going there again this weekend If they are back this weekend I am going to hike out and find law enforcement.

I was ready to confront them last weekend but I am glad I did not as they were both sitting on a couple of revolvers and drinking beer.Be carefull there internet tough guys,I would take pelicans advice.

What secret? I don't know or remember nothin. That area is also kind of strange. A lot of weird things can be found in those woods!

Hit the lake again last night around 7-8:30 with my 2 yr old son. Fishing was slower than usual, but we still C&R'd 5 pretty little fish.

Didn't see any obvious poachers. One woman and here 3 (or so) yr old daugher were looking pretty guilty though. From a distance, I could have sworn I saw her with a spinning rod fishing, but whenever I got close, she'd walk away and start pointing out the ducks to her kid. This wouldn't be weird, except she was on a pretty 'remote' part of the lake (ie - a long way from any trail) and never left the general area the whole time I was there.

Say 'hi' if you see me out there. Just look for the green 'old town' canoe with a trolling motor (flat transom canoe) and usually a 2 yr old with me.

-Chad

What secret? I don't know nuthin.

There are a lot of strange things that go on in the woods over there... Sometimes I feel I should be packin....

I'm sensing some kinda de ja vou (sp?)....
Micro Brew - are you getting enough sleep? (see your last 2 posts)

Carl - I'll email you the file that I was talking about until I can figure out how to share it with the others...

Phish, check your URL.

working on it. Forgot that file was on an internal location...

I only wish it was de ja vu, it's more like CRS. I sent the first reply, which went to a second page. When I checked the site again, didn't see my reply so I thought I dumped it. Enough sleep, too many micros????

That's what I figured. Just had to give you some greif over it. Then I went and posted a link that was on my local network and not the web. Doh!

Maybe carl will figure out how to get the file posted here (I emailed it to him).

Can't do her. Files to big (2.82 MB). To upload to PP's holding area files have to be less than one meg in size.

I suggest emailing it to whom ever wants it. I have cable modem access so a big download is no problem for me but it might upset those that are on 56K dial up access.

understand a game warden was up giving tickets on Saturday morning. Heard he got one group and caused three others to scurry down the road.

That's great news! I sent an email to the enforcement group last week, didn't hear back from them, but maybe that was their response. I'd still like to see stiffer fines. It wouldn't take much for word to get out to the poacher crowd. Poach and pay big bucks, lose gear and license privileges.

I agree with more substantial fines. Don't know what they are right now, but how about something like $500 for each poached fish? That'd give some folks something to think about. Plus, the fines could be used for more F&G policing/monitoring.

500 bucks a fish is the most ridiculous thing i've ever heard. Just because someone catches a fish the wrong way, it's no reason to fine them a weeks pay. Besides the trout are still stockers. They cost hardly nothing to put in. It's really no big deal.

Me, I like to claim Russian immunity and have a blank stare when I am fishing with a 8 oz banana weight with a size one treble hook attached to the weight.

Hey Johnny46...you wouldn't be one of the poachers soaking bait up on a selective lake would you? If the wardens don't hand out stiff fines, people like you who don't give a rats a$$ will continue to ignore the rules.

I may be wrong about you,but your defense of the poachers,makes me wonder.

Imagine that a Game Warden showing up, huh. You know they fish to, and this is a very popular site, you never know who drop's in. Oh johnny46, maybe you better go over your fact's and figure's and find out what the cost really is. And rule's are made at certain lake's for different reason's. Sometime's to promote a Trophy fisherie, or Fly fishing only, or electric motor's only, and so on. The rule's are there for specific reason's. Ask our WDFG what their reason's are. Then make an informed decision on the fact's.

Johnny46 - Fish caught the "wrong way" is poaching! I suppose snagging salmon is the sporting thing to do too, right? The fine has to hurt to be effective. More I could say, but I'll bite my tongue....

Johnny, Johnny, Johnny--- Were you one of those snaggers/poachers I chased off the Cedar River last Fall? The ones who threatened to kick my ass if I turned you in?

Poaching is Poaching, no matter how/where it's done and the fines should HURT!

Go down to the Columbia at Chinook and see how many people of Far-Eastern descent are there hucking out baits on 9 rods and keeping and cooking the short Sturgeon. All they do is look the Game Cop in the eye and claim ignorance! It has decimated the fish stock in that area.

Every damn one of them gets a ticket then they come back the next week and do it again!
I say stiffen the fines and make 'em pay. THEN, maybe the dirt-bags that ignore the rules might start to read them first.

I'm not a poacher. I just don't agree with stiff fines. When i see things like this go on i make it stop. I've called the poacher hotline before, and i've chased many an angler away from a lake. What i don't agree with is fining someone 500 bucks a fish. Most of these people don't have that kind of money, and if they do, it's probably coming out of their kids college savings account.
Besides there are more effective ways, taking away gear for example, or maybe community service. Oh and Pelican, i'm not just some clueless idiot. I know why they make lakes selective fisheries, and every game warden i've talked to tell me these fish cost almost nothing.

Fines are to discourage wrong /illegal behavior. If you can't pay the fine, don't do the crime. It's really that simple. In addition to the fine, gear confiscation would be great, as would loss of license privileges.
It really doesn't matter to me what it cost the state to raise a fish, and has nothing to do with selective, C & R or put and take fisheries. It has to do with abidding by the established laws.

I don't believe I would call anyone a clueless idiot. Not my style. And I agree with microbrew the law is the law. If people don't agree with the law then take the proper step's to change it. I wonder just out of curiosity if Stacie has some number's available, I believe she could pinpoint it pretty exact on what the price is. Might be interesting to see how many tax dollar's are spent or even how much private hatcherie's need to make to stay in buisiness. With labor, facility's, electic, equipment,feed, and so on. Take Care.

It is every fisherperson's responsibility to know the laws for the waters in which they fish.

I say, if you are caught poaching you should lose everything, gear, vehicle, and license. Then get slapped with a healthy fine. So what if the fine is $500 and the poacher has to dip into his kids college fund. The poacher should have thought of that before they went fishing.

You wanna see poaching at it's finest go down to the Green River @ Soos Creek in October. You will be appauled.

Johnny - didn't you know? A poacher's kids DON'T GO TO COLLEGE! :p

Here's my two cents worth on this topic. The fines should be very large and with a Manditory
Minimum. That's so some Redneck Judge who doesen't see the harm cannot let violators off
with warnings.
I waz in Canada recently and their roads are well posted with Don't litter signs. The signs state
a minimum $500 fine. You wouldn't believe how little litter there is up there along the roads.

It makes you wanna puke when you come back from there where things are cleaner and people
respect their envoronment enuff not to trash it, then take a look at our roadsides,parks,and especially lake and streamshores in popular areas. TRASHED.
Something should be done that's more effective in making people think about both litter and
fish and game poaching/rule violations.

You can have the best laws in the world but without the manpower to enforce them they are nothing!I see the problem as on of not enough cops.

I have driven to Chicago and back three times and I will let you all know that this is the dirtiest state that you drive thru. When you get out on the open road you know when you in Washington by the litter along side of the roads. I know this has nothing about poaching,but I just had to say it.

Have you seen those signs on the highway that say "litter and it will hurt"? What the does that mean? How is it going to hurt? Not that I litter, I am just wondering what they are implying.