I read so much on this board about "flossers" and the obvious dislike many here on ifish have for this method of angling. At the same time, I can't help but notice several of the people I know that fish beads and yarn and are (possibly) lining fish are some of the most ethical, conservation minded anglers I know, releasing nearly 100% of the fish they hook unharmed. Then I think of a plug puller that has trebles hanging off of the back of his plugs, or maybe a single siwash hanging back on a swivel, and the damage these hooks can do to a fish. Or a fly fisherman that has his glo bug inhaled by a fish which leads to bleeding from the gills when the hook is set. Or a drift fisherman throwing bait that hooks a fish deep and leads to a bleeder. Or a spoon chucker that with a large single siwash that hooks a fish in the eye. All of these are likely mortal wounds for the fish. Then I think of a someone lining fish...with a single small octopus hook, usually barbless, and nearly 100% of the time hooking the fish on the outside corner of the mouth at the gums or just inside, where it will (coincidentally) do the least amount of damage and chances for fish survival post-release are very high.

So why all the hate towards lining fish? Why is someone who lines fish less ethical than someone who mortally wounds fish using one of the "ethical" methods above? Some on here like Eyefish have seen the merits of focusing on the impact to the fish - not the method used - when deciding what is "ethical." His "hangback method" is a great example of keeping an open mind in an attempt to limit the impact on fish survival.

Not trying to start the flossing debate here - been hashed out waaayy too many times already. Just wanted to provide a different point of view and some food for thought on a quiet Tuesday afternoon. Peace.

Same answer as on the other board...

Flossing = snagging = trying to hook a fish that doesn't make an attempt to voluntarily bite your offering.

You can rig your stuff in a way that results in hookups being in safer spots, without having to snag fish in the face...that's not flossing.

Fish on...

Todd

Read your post again. This ain't IFish.

Again, lining is a common method of hooking fish. I'm not going to argue with anyone about it. But if the person doing the lining also keeps that fish (i.e., bonk), that's poaching. That's illegal. That's not what conservation-minded anglers do.

If that's what you're suggesting, you won't get much sympathy on this board either.

Because it's not fishing.....the fish is not being enticed to take your offering. You are attacking a fish that is not interested in your offering.

For such a black and white topic, this subject hangs around like a poor relative.
It will always be just a clever form of snagging.....final answer.

I go fishing for the sport of it. To try and trick a dumb animal to willingly grab my hook.

Screw how you treat the fish after you hook/catch it, if just getting a fish to hand any way possible is your objective then you are missing the point. They come to hand really easily with a gill net, or a credit card at the fish shop.

read carefully - these fish are released unharmed. Not looking for meat here. Some consider the sport trying to fool the fish into biting your offering, others consider sport as fighting the fish on a rod and reel. How many of you change your ethics when you step off a plane in AK and the Reds are running?

You already had it right in your first post.

Nope. They are released harmed, the same way all fish get released.

You are just taking the sport/chance out of it by flossing. Fighting a fish is fun, but it is anti-climactic compared to the grab.

My ethics don't change at all on the reds. It is known flossing with the intent to kill. A straight up harvest of meat.

RR -

Not trying to argue - trying to understand. So...is it OK then to floss when in AK if I am going to harvest the fish? What if I am goingt o C&R? What if I am fishing in the lower 48 and I plan to harvest the fish - a straight up harvest of meat - is it OK then? Or is it always taboo once you cross the border with AK?

Nor Cal, instead of perpetually seeking a blessing, get into the pickup.
The take.
Once you go down that road a ways, you will be happy to hand the rod off.
The thrill is the take.

Been doing this a long time DD...I am very familiar with the take. I've run a drift boat. Hooked fish on plugs, spinners, spoons, bait, divers, you name it. Yes, the take is great, but so is the fight.

I just don't understand the hypocracy on this issue - posted so maybe someone could enlightne me.

AK reds = netting with hook and line.
No one in their right mind would pretend that that is fishing.
Flossing/fishing = oil/water

DD
Who is now blue in the face.

NCD, there's no hypocrisy...and you are trying to start an argument, or get people to agree with you that flossing is OK, and you're not going to get much of that here.

Flossing is snagging, I don't care where they are hooked. Snagging is not sporting, and I don't give a rip how the fish fights if it is snagged...want sport? Snag 'em in the ass, then you'll get some sport fighting 'em...it's the same thing, and if just fighting a fish is all you're after, you'll get a much better fight with a chum hooked in the dorsal fin than you'll ever get out of one hooked fairly.

Fishing is about getting a fish to bite your offering...period.

If you need to stroke your ego so much that you just *must* catch a fish, even if it doesn't bite your offering, than I suggest that you go to the store and just buy a fish.

It's not about where the fish is hooked so much as it is about your intention when fishing...if your intent is to snag 'em, then you're not fishing. May as well use a gillnet or C-4.

If you're intent is to get them to bite, then do it...and rig your stuff up in a way that will minimize the wounding as much as possible.

There is no hypocrisy when you don't like snagging fish, but don't mind getting one to bite...that's what fishing is.

Hypocrisy is calling yourself a fisherman when you are a snagger.

Fish on...

Todd

I am. Where did I say that?

So black and white. So basic to the sport. And so pathetic that "anglers" still attempt to rationalize precision snagging. I might actually have more respect for the guys throwing pyramid sinkers and treble hooks. At least they're honest about it.
-IS

yerp, todd said it.

Flossing sounds like a great idea (all sportiness aside), but here in wa, flossers aka snaggers hook way more fish in the butt than in the mouth. Eyefish's hang back method is the only form of ethical flossing, it combines the sport of getting the fish to bite, and the unharmful hookup of that rare "proper" floss.

It would be a good Idea if 10 fish didn't have to get hooked in rear-end before they're hooked in the sweet spot. And I know your probably thinking, "real flossers don't yank," but the fact of the matter is, when that behavior is knowingly tolerated, the yankers prevail. More fish are going to get poorly hooked while flossing than while getting them to bite. Come fish the skok. I garuntee the guys fishing bobber and eggs are having way less of an impact on released fish than the snaggers. And for all you washingtonians who think flossing isn't snagging, the definition of snagging in the regs states:

"Snagging: Attempting to take fish with a hook and line in such a way that the fish does not voluntarily take the hook(s) in its mouth."

As for the effectiveness of the methods, I will always legaly hook more fish while getting the fish to bite than a flosser ever will. How do I know this? I do it every season.

Ok...I'll bite then...what is your point? If it's to call this a "different angle", it's not...it's the same tired arguments that have been put forth by the snaggers all along...there's nothing new here.

Fish on...

Todd

Isn't flyfishing another form of lining fish too? Seems like the same thing here to me...

Keith

.

fly flossermen rarely catch anything so there's no need to argue with them. If North Cal wants to take up fly-flossing, I'll keep my mouth shut.