Deer populations way down?

How ya know they aren't there already?

It's the same dumfuk attitude that self-proclaimed "sportsmen" share for everything else.

Orcas, seals, sealions and eagles are eating "their salmon/steelhead/trout" so let's shoot every last one.

Wolves, cougars & coyotes are eating "their" deer, elk & moose, so it's "fvck 'em. kill 'em all."

Then we get knuckledragging morons that raise the stars & bars and start up with that chest pounding schit about "State's Raights" as soon as they find themselves confronted by legislation they can't wrap their itty-bitty brains around.

It's best to remind yourself that we're dealing with a group of people that don't posses the logic to see past their next mouthful of food. That's why they're dirt poor, living in leaking singlewide trailers in places like Glenoma and have to forage like stray dogs, hand to mouth, on a day-to-day basis.

Usually they post on Gaym-poachin', but sometimes they trickle over and end up here.

St. Helen's elk are in trouble. There is too many for the habitat. Wolves would help put the herd in balance with the range.

A lot of range managers believe that Yellowstone was being overgrazed/ovebrowsed by elk pre-wolves. They are seeing a real change in the range, with many other resources benefitting (fish, pronghorn).

As to the "lack" of elk availble to hunters in the GYE what I saw when there last year, and read, is that the elk have changed their behavior. Being out in the open all day is not a good idea. They are in smaller herds, in the woods. This was where and how we saw them.

It means that hunting them has become much harder. There are fewer, and they are hiding. It just takes more work to get them.

Just read a quote from High Country News. Quoting Sportsmen for Fish and Wildlife-Alaska. "Maximum sustained yield for consumptive purposes" in reference to caribou and moose management.

As long as one is clear about one's goals; fine.

What a surprise.

Why in the Hell do you always have to take the extreme?
Whether we're talking gun control or any other topic, there is NEVER EVER moderation in any of your comments.
You are no different than the extreme right that you have such a burning hatred for.

If we as big game hunters or ranchers state that we want to control the population, you immediately twist the argument to ..."Kill all of them" and that is complete horseshitt.


I have always suggested that we manage wolves as a game species like mountain lions, a valuable species with worth to both humans and the ecosystem.
It would be tragic to lose either to extinction.

Factor us human consumers, the natural predators, and ALL wildlife, the generated revenue gained by a controlled hunt and make a livable plan for all.
Unless you remove humans and are happy with population crashes of both predator and prey, you cannot make any one species a holy grail, be it elk or wolves.
Manage the entire ecosystem with a reasonable sustainable program and keep the national parks an untouched ecosystem.
Calculate the reproductive rates of predator and prey and allow a harvestable surplus that doesn't endanger the entire population of either.


Irie, You are a model animal planet wildlife biologist, managing with emotion and not hard facts or science.
Exactly how California manages it's mountain lion population.

I am saying Kill em all in Washington for now. Not because I hate wolves but because I fear (fear not know)what will happen. Montana and Idaho seem to have a problem. The population of wolves has had no problem taking hold and growing. I suspect it would be no diffrent here except we have no where near the surplus of animals they once enjoyed. I may never hunt Elk again but It is something I would hate to loose for those who want to do it.
Lets face the facts we are here to stay and wildlife must be managed by us. It may very well be possible to sustain a wolf population and a havestable herd of deer and elk in this state. If Idaho and Montana are sucsessful then bring em on. It looks easy to get them established. Getting rid of them if they get out of hand may only cost us the money and enjoyment we get from what we now know as big game hunting in this state and a bunch of money we don't have. Maybe I am misinformed but it isnt even the same animal that was native to these areas. I guess when we run out of wild steelhead we can replace them with wild atlantic salmon. It would be sorta the same thing and we will feel good about seeing fish in the river again even if it means we cant fish for 5, 10 maybe 20 years while we wait for nature to balance out.
Hey I thought it would be cool to have turkeys around too. My brother has a house on a little piece of land not to far out of Spokane.
When he built it he was hoping to have turkeys on it some day.
A few years later he spotted the first one then a year before last he counted over a 120 he could see at one time from his kitchen. Turkey huntin isn't all that special when ya have to check your boots for turkey crap before ya go into the garage to take em off. Now he just hopes wolves like turkey more than his dogs.

Wolves must be part of our balanced enviroment. I would like to believe we progressed from the days when we thought that wolves were evil and bloodthirsty. They do what they do. They are beautiful animals and I, for one, am glad they are around. To me that is a sign of true wilderness. They belong here just like you and me. That ranchers are having problems with them? They need to learn how to cope with it. The world doesn't revolve around ranchers alone. They are other creatures here and they are all important.

Some of you people here sound like those numbnuts who wiped out all the buffalos back in the 19th century. For no reason at all. Then they did the same thing to the wolves. It's all about balance. We, the main predators on this planet, must assure that the balance will always be here. The fanatical econazis are just as bad as ranchers who would shoot everything that resembles wolf. This beautiful planet belongs to all of us. Even if I will not see a single wolf in my life time (but I did) it does my heart good to know that they are out there howling their beautiful songs at night.

ha ha
Google econazi and start reading. funny

The wolves we need for our balanced envioment are gone. Bummer they would have been cool to have around.

I do believe some of the wolves Idaho is dealing with are evil and Bloodthirsty.
They are beautiful animals and I would prefer to drive a lot further to see them in their natural habitat.

Neither they or we belong here. We are both invasive species and are not good for the environment.
If the Ranchers are having a problem with them I assure you they will cope with it.

then just.......... wow ...............................................I guess

Intresting article.

http://www.capitalpress.com/content/cs-wolf-meeting-022511

Wolves must be managed!

Damn Stam that was cool

Awesome video!

Wow, those are some BADASS birds ! ! .. . . . I wonder how often the wolf gets the upper hand? . . . in at least one instance the Eagle had backup. .. another F'n eagle !!

Very Cool.. .


EDIT: Oh Yeah. .. .. WANT ! !

Crump and the boys should have gotten in on THAT while they were over there! Fukkin bad ass! Wonder how often the eagles get injured?


Now.... the question is, can Andy train his chickens to hunt wolves?

If Andy can train those chickens to hunt woofs.....

I will take a dozen.

About the best vid I think I have ever seen. Love the tag team.

I don't watch videos with my ridiculous Hughesnet.
I think wolves learn to fear eagles as pups and will instinctively flee from them.
That said, I just can't see a 20lb eagle taking down one of these heavyweight moose killers...



(My friend on the right is 6' 3")

They looked like coyotes or large fox to me....I doubt any eagle could handle 120bs of pissed off Woof.

Cool video Stam.

I like wolves, just like I like most wildlife. As a biologist and (for Art's benefit) a Birkenstock wearin' hippie realist, I know that the survival of both wolves and their prey requires active management. In a wilderness environment lacking humans and our development, the predator-prey relationships between wolves and prey isn't pretty. It consists of sharp booms and busts, each species boom lagging behind the other. In human modified environments, which is just about everywhere, active management results in more stable populations of both the wolves and elk.

I'm not into hunting animals that I don't eat, but just as over-abundant sea lions in the Columbia River need to be controlled, so do certain wolf populations that have expanded like Catholics and Mormans.

The Yellowstone elk population was up to around 16 or 18,000. Wildlife biologists said the range would better support about 6 or 8,000. The reintroduction of wolves has had the desired effect of reducing the elk population and even increasing the health and productivity of the elk population. However, since it's a national park with no human management of wildlife resources supposedly allowed, the wolves will probably over use the elk population, possibly causing it to crash, at which point wolves will crash to, both due to higher natural mortality and also by moving away in search of prey. Then elk will bounce back, and the whole boom and bust will occur again. That is the natural balance - although a wildly dynamic one - with many predator-prey populations. That might be workable in Yellowstone, but it isn't a good wildlife management model on other public lands where other wildlife users - hunters - want a crack at a share of the surplus herd production.

As for ranchers who complain about wolf depredation on cattle that are grazing on public land, I say "screw 'em." They are already being subsidized by me and every other American for their cheap grazing fees. Wildlife depredation is just part of the "rent." Cattle grazing on public land occurs at the expense of reduced wildlife populations, so it is illogical for me to sympathize with natural wildlife predator depredation on their subsidized cattle. They can control wildlife depredation on their private ranch land, however. That's fair.

So to both the "save all the wolves" and "kill all the wolves" crowd, I say F ya' cuz neither of you are very beneficial to the planet.

Sg

I think there should be a healthy population of wolves where they belong...and healthy populations of deer and elk, where they belong, too.

Even though I hunt, I'm willing to subsume my own interests to accomplish the goal of a well-balanced ecosystem that includes wolves, deer, and elk...and I support the management schemes that will help keep it in balance, if man made issues are the things that push it out of balance.

One thing I don't like, as a hunter, are the guys who say "I want to protect the public, the farmers, and the elk!"...when what they really want to do is shoot a wolf, all the other schit bedamned.

I don't think there's anything wrong with wanting to shoot a wolf, I just prefer if people are honest about it, instead of trying to justify it on some other more palatable position, like they're trying to do someone or something a favor.

Fish on...

Todd

I wholeheartedly agree.
Man is the cancer on this incredible planet that we live on.

I love wildlife more than my own species on many levels.

Hunting submerges me in their world, I feel like a cat with a freshly killed mouse sometimes, remorsefully admiring the incredible beauty of the creature whose life I have taken.
Man will never create such beauty or purity.

Funny, I can be so cruel in my desire to kill exceptional specimens of wildlife and at the same time display the compassion to swerve to avoid killing a squirrel on the road.
This morning I relocated a garbage raiding fox from a box trap.
I could have easily put a .22 slug in his head.
Instead I valued the life of a beautiful animal, pulled over on the way to work and watched as he bolted to freedom as I opened the door of the trap, it felt good to spare his life.




I agree with you too Todd.

The great predators of this planet are some of it's most valuable treasures.
To hunt them to extinction is a sin of epic proportion.

Recently I was asked if there was anything I wouldn't hunt.
I gave it thought.........The plight of the great African Lion came to mind.
A creature whose raw strength and power have struck fear in the hearts of men since the beginning of time.
I find them both beautiful and terrifying.
Man has stripped their habitat and killed them mercilessly.
I think they are on the brink.
It would pain me to no end to see them or any other big predator extinct in my lifetime.

I'll hunt a species if their population allows a harvest-able surplus, that does not endanger their population as a whole.
Selfish? Probably.
Hateful? No Way.
I worship the days I have afield in the pursuit of big game animals.
Things I dreamt of as a child I have lived and shared with my son that were beyond my wildest dreams.
No amount of money could buy those moments from me.

Most will never ever understand.