Thank You Parker

todd wrote,

Anyone who thinks killing the same amount of ESA fish, while the commercial guys catch more hatchery fish, is good for anything but hatchery managers and commercial fishermen needs their head examined.


why is this so hard to figure out ?

It is not that hard to figure out, and makes sense. But coming up with reasonable and do-able solutions is a lot harder.
A selective fishery is a reasonable idea, and slamming those who endorse it is unreasonable. How about making constructive points instead of switching to name calling and shouting down?
Making CCA an issue seems to me to miss the point. If the focus is on CCA then all the other, real issues, slide by. I pay my $25 dollars but am not an expert, but it seems to me the experts have had a long, miserable, and unsuccessful run, so it is open season and all ideas are on the table.
Everyone involved here, myself included, cares about these fisheries, so pick a spot and let's get to work.
YMMV.
FWIW, i had a meeting with a psychiatrist today so I guess I did get my head examined.

What the Doctor Rick said above!


+100000



Fishy

JFC, the solutions have been known for years. They are off the table because they are not acceptable to the interests that have the political power to get and keep what they want. These interests in the status quo like groups like the CCA that focus on tinkering around the edges.

So put them on the table here, break the status quo.

If you want to RESTORE wild salmonids in the CR, the dams have to come out. There is simply no other way to restore the runs in the CR because the reservoirs are not salmon habitat.

If you want to write off the mainstem production (keep the dams) but restore the tributaries then it will be necessary to collect all smolts above a reservoir and safely release them below the dam. Have to keep them out of the reservoirs.

If wild fish are not important above the dams then get well managed hatchery programs on line and properly fund their operation.

If you want to RESTORE wild salmonids in the CR, the dams have to come out. There is simply no other way to restore the runs in the CR because the reservoirs are not salmon habitat.

If you want to write off the mainstem production (keep the dams) but restore the tributaries then it will be necessary to collect all smolts above a reservoir and safely release them below the dam. Have to keep them out of the reservoirs.

If wild fish are not important above the dams then get well managed hatchery programs on line and properly fund their operation.

Have a couple of pints then they merge back into one..

"So put them on the table here, break the status quo."



They,ve been on the table here about elevinty million times and I doubt the status quo that bought off the tribes for just short of a billion dollars is going to be broken on a fishing website bulletin board.

Gillnets on the Columbia suck...purse seines will suck just as much, just in a different way...

There is 100% no need for any non-tribal commercial fishery on the LCR at all...zero. That's what we should be advocating for, not advocating for a way to help commercials harvest more fish.

Fish on...

Todd

P.S. Getting rid of the commercials completely won't hardly make a blip on the radar so far as "restoring" salmon to the Columbia...but it won't hurt, and would definitely make economic sense, not to mention improve sportfishing.

Where there is a reasonable habitat base, I think it would be possible to support a reasonable (now there's a loaded word) terminal recreational fishery on purely wild stock. If commercial harvest were eliminated-coastwide as has been done for waterfowl, gamebirds, game mammals, resident trout, bass- then we could probably have some reasonable fisheries.

There is simply too much "demand" and the easy way out is hatcheries.

For the dammed streams, like the Cowlitz, you could run hatcheries for mitigation; again with terminal (river) harvest.

One of the tradeoffs, since fish is supposed to be so good for us to eat, is that there will need to be commercial fish growing like there is commercial cattle, pig, and chicken.

Hatcheries = Aquaculture Don't expect commercial harvest to end anytime soon, the only question is going to be if it's white guys or tribes or both.

The treaty tribal commercial fisheries are more than adequate to satisfy the market need for commercial fish product. The LCR non-treaty commercial fishery is an anachronism that needs to end, as has been expressed here numerous times.

Maybe the lower Snake dams will be breached in my lifetime, but the LCR and mid-C dams are never coming out. However, the mid-C non-federal dams are under the gun to achieve significant fish passage performance requirements, and they are making big strides in that direction. The NMFS biological opinion places a similar burden of fish passage improvement on the LCR and Snake federal dams. If the federal dams can achieve the improvements that the PUD dams are, then something that "looks like" recovery is possible. It's a strange world when the federal dams that have spent untold billions on fish passage are "bringing up the rear" in fish passage effectiveness, but that's the difference between performance requirements and quality lip service.

Meanwhile, I think fishery management is in for some trouble with LCR tule chinook. Tules may limit fall fishing opportunity the way wild springers limit spring fishing opportunity. The present tule hypothesis is that if spawning escapements are achieved, the wild stock will recover. I'm skeptical because I think the hypothesis is flawed. LCR tule habitat is severely degraded. I don't think LCR tule tributary habitat is capable of supporting a high enough reproductive effectiveness for those fish to recover. It will take quite a few years to test this hypothesis; and meanwhile the fishing on hatchery tules and hatchery and wild URBs could be severely cut back. I hope we aren't getting into a "can't get there from here" situation.

Sg

I don't think all this is going to work out like a bunch of people are thinking it might. Guides were testifying at the senate hearing that Columbia River could become a world class fishing destination with by removing the gillnets..Bet Jane has a different plan involving Kayaks and Nikons.

With all of the trouble commercials have given us trying to save "wild" fish, put observers on board, revive tanks,over fishing and infinite other measures, what makes anyone think they would roll over and give up the LCR in any of our life-times?


Fishy

I wouldn't plan on it happening with their consent.

Fish on...

Todd

There used to be commercial hunters, used to be commercial whalers, used to fish many trout commercially and they all got closed out. And, like Todd said, they probably weren't leading the charge to close them out.

In WA, with the Tribal Commercial fisheries there is no need for any other.

I agree with the end to market exploitation of wild game and fish and have said so many times. But what is the plan to bring this to an end with the fisheries?
Putting the buffalo and duck market hunters out of work was a bit easier because the public could see the destruction, with the fish it is out of sight out of mind.

If there is a plan I would love to hear it.

Fishy

"Putting the buffalo and duck market hunters out of work was a bit easier because the public could see the destruction, with the fish it is out of sight out of mind."


Non Native cattle and chickens put those guys out of work, but there really hasn't been a major rebound since the habitat has been converted to other uses. Guess if you wanted to end commercial fishing you would need to replace the food source with something sustainable like Aqua-Culture.